How is the Abomb taught in Japan ?

[Unesh52]

Japan talks about Hiroshima and Nagasaki the same way we talk about Atlantis

Dude, what the fuck?

 

[theevilgenius60]

As per the Vietnam War, like with many things, it largely depends on the state you live in.

I grew up in Massachusetts, a liberal bastion, so the tale we're taught is that warmongering presidents, fueled by an irrational fear of the domino theory, saw an opportunity in the Gulf of Tonkin incident to fight a useful proxy battle against communism without actually turning the Cold War blazing hot. Once we were in, we couldn't get out without severely losing face to the Communist East, and thus the quagmire began.

I have no idea how it's taught in Mississippi, but I doubt it's the same story.

I'm also curious about Japan.

(EDIT: Ah, so some people just gloss over it, huh? Learning the Vietnam story was mandatory 10th-grade curriculum in my school.)

Mississippi here, and it's taught exactly the same way, at least in south Mississippi. I don't know what the mongrels in the delta teach.

 

[mega48man]

you bomb the test, we bomb you back, don't fuck up.

so what'd you find about vietnam being taught in america? if you found anything weird or strange, you heard wrong. in my school (in michigan, a blue(liberal) state as opposed to a red (conservative) state) we were taught that america was paranoid with communism so JFK had no choice (sarcasm) but to invade vietnam and help south vietnam fight back the invading communists/NVA(who had all ready taken over most of the country). he had good intentions about it and all, he was one of my favorite presidents nothing against him, but then he got dead, so LBJ (who was VP because no one wanted him to become president) became president and fucked everything up. he didn't realize that he'd be getting maaaaany american soliders including willam defoe killed for a reason a drug inspired hippie culture nation didn't understand because they were too young. so it was a loosing battle and johnson "vietnamized" the place (south vietnam troops were trained better and we GTFO'd). so pretty much iraq happened in the asian jungle.

What I learned about Vietnam: We went in, kicked their ass from here to kingdom come, but since this was the first war to be televised, in shocked Americans. I'm dead serious, if you look at the most famous Vietnamese offensive, the Tet Offensive, from a strategic standpoint, we decimated them. But the TV didn't show that, the TV showed American's getting shot because there was no way we could show the Vietnamese getting shot without the camera man getting shot. This isn't to say it was a smart war, or a war we should have been in, but America was definitely not getting their ass kicked in that war.

oh you're absolutely right, the TV was a relatively new thing at the time so EVERYONE was watching. it'd be the first time the media miscontrewed what was really going on (iraq). although there was something else about the tet offensvie that stood out. while american forces did push back the NVA, the tet offensive was very well planned. everyone get in your hiding spots aaaall across the country, wait for them to think we're taking a break for a holiday, then we all pop out at once ALL OVER THE COUNTRY and do shit they ain't even seen yet like screaming and running into their base with a bomb on our chest or something. the tet offensive reeeeally threw off our troops at first and pretty much showed the world that there was someone brave enough to stand up to the american army and put up a pretty good fight (trust me, that was the last time the happened, desert storm thank you collin powell you're a genius, fuck iraq and afghanistan). although i met a guy today at the community college where i'm taking class who had been in iraq for 13 years and he said he's still got shrapnel in either his knee or ankle i forget, it was a really cool story.

 

[thestickman91]

snip

And the post that you quoted was referring to the fact that japon is not a country.... much less a word..... but Japan is a country (and a word)

(I mean over there in Japan, I don't care about japon)

just to make this clear, Japón is a word. It is Spanish. It means Japan in English. If you want to discount this remember that Spanish is one of the 5 Major Languages on Earth and English doesn't seem to be this guys first language.

 

[Thumper17]

In Canada we get taught about world war 2, a bit about WW1 and the war of 1812, otherwise we focus on the history of Canada.

All I know about Vietnam is what I gleaned from the 4 Rambo movies.

 

[Febel]

A bomb?

Yeah anyway, I'm pretty sure there's something of a taboo about talking about it over there.

 

[NotAwesomeAtAll]

Hmm, how do they teach the vietnam war in America? I imagine it depends which schoolboard is buying the textbooks.

On topic:
That's a good question. I've tried to talk about this with a few of my Japanese friends, and they usually just duck the questions by emphasizing that both Hiroshima and Nagesaki are now thriving cities. This leads me to suppose that it's taught as a great human tragedy which nonetheless is part of what shaped modern Japan.

Don't take my word on that, it's just what I've been able to gather from a few half-finished conversations.[/quote
As an student in an American public school, I can tell you the Vietnam war is pretty much considered a war of western neo-imperialism; the Viet Nim didn't like us, so we tried to crush them.
Not Necessarily my opinion, but that's what i have been taught.
Edit: Uh, I don't know what happened to the quote, sorry.

 

[Travis Higuet]

Hmm, how do they teach the vietnam war in America? I imagine it depends which schoolboard is buying the textbooks.

My schooling regarding american history went thusly: WOO, WE FOUGHT BACK THE EVIL BRITISH!!! GO AMERICA! Then, just to show the world we mean business, WE FREED THE SLAVES! GOO AMERICA!!! THEN WE WON WORLD WAR 1, and as a quick follow up, decided we'd go and save europe from that puny little hitler dude and KICKED GERMANY IN THE FACE! WOOOO, GO AMERICA!!!! Then Japan attacked us..! It was completely unjustified and had nothing to do with us so we went and beat them honorably..! WOO, GO AMERICA!!!

Then, junior year I joined International Relations, and it went thusly: What's that? Firebombing non-military cities? It's okay, cause we're AMERI-- what? Pearl Harbor was our fault anyway? Amer-- Vietnam? Korea? What? Responsibility for the actions we took and the people we've fucked over..? Unjust wars, and indescriminate massacres of civilian populations..?


[sub]america!! [/sub]

To a simple mind, a thing must be all one way or the other. You likely reimagined the way you were taught history prior to joining "international relations" so that once you were "enlightened" you could look back with disdain on all the bias you suddenly saw in the curriculum that was taught to you. Could the truth be somewhere in between? NOOO, of course not. You "rebel" against the "propaganda" that you suddenly see all around you, and fall head first into a giant pit of foreign propaganda. Shocking isnt it, that Japan or Germany might have a different viewpoint of WW2 than the United States, or that the Soviet Union might have seen the causes and effects of the cold war different than we did here in America. Imagine.... a world where two different (OPPOSING) nations would see historical conflicts from different perspectives. Why.... clearly it's proof of a great jingoistic propaganda effort by the American government. Ridiculous.

I do not have the time or the desire to shoot down all of the foolishness you spouted off, so I'll just take one specific example.

Japan did attack us at Pearl Harbor because of actions we were taking, true. HOWEVER, we were correct in taking those actions. Japan was in the process of subjugating China, and was already at war with several other powers in the area, in an effort to create an unassailable empire which would elevate them to the status of the worlds other great powers. Japan had already invaded enormous swathes of territory belonging not only to China, but also territories of England, The Netherlands, and France. The action that the United States took, which you laughably suppose was adequate justification for a sneak attack upon the United States, was to discontinue shipments of fuel oil, and scrap metal to Japan. Keep in mind, that Japan was using these materials to commit horrible attrocities in their war of aggression in China and throughout southeast asia.

Just a recap, Deshara believes that Japan was justified in attacking the United States without a declaration of war, because the United States refused to continue shipping Japan war materiels which it was using to fight a war all over eastern Asia against several US allies. Yes, clearly Deshara, we had it coming.

 

[Travis Higuet]

you bomb the test, we bomb you back, don't fuck up.

so what'd you find about vietnam being taught in america? if you found anything weird or strange, you heard wrong. in my school (in michigan, a blue(liberal) state as opposed to a red (conservative) state) we were taught that america was paranoid with communism so JFK had no choice (sarcasm) but to invade vietnam and help south vietnam fight back the invading communists/NVA(who had all ready taken over most of the country). he had good intentions about it and all, he was one of my favorite presidents nothing against him, but then he got dead, so LBJ (who was VP because no one wanted him to become president) became president and fucked everything up. he didn't realize that he'd be getting maaaaany american soliders including willam defoe killed for a reason a drug inspired hippie culture nation didn't understand because they were too young. so it was a loosing battle and johnson "vietnamized" the place (south vietnam troops were trained better and we GTFO'd). so pretty much iraq happened in the asian jungle.

I think its funny how according to you, in a blue state school, that the teachers tried desperately to absolve Kennedy (beloved of liberals historical reality notwithstanding) of any responsibility for going into Vietnam, and try to demonize Johnson, (I guess because he was from Texas?) even though Johnson was way more hardcore liberal than Kennedy. The truth was that Kennedy actually believed in the "domino theory", and he was proven right after we left South Vietnam. South Vietnam fell to the communists, along with Laos and Cambodia. Millions of people ended up being killed in Cambodia (in the name of the people of course). Just for the record, Kennedy also believed in lower taxes to boost business and employment. He is famously quoted as saying "A rising tide lifts all boats". (should be obvious, but today only right wing extremists believe that lol).

 

[Leadfinger]

I have taught in Japan in Japanese schools for about 15 years. I teach social studies at a Japanese university now. In Japanese history classes they almost exclusively focus on the bombings themselves and portray Japan as a victim country. The events leading up to the bombings such as the invasion of China and SE Asia, atrocities against civilians and POWS, "comfort women," Unit 731, the Pearl Harbor attack, etc. are completely ignored to such an extent that many young Japanese are not aware they happened at all.

 

[Sean951]

Just a recap, Deshara believes that Japan was justified in attacking the United States without a declaration of war, because the United States refused to continue shipping Japan war materiels which it was using to fight a war all over eastern Asia against several US allies. Yes, clearly Deshara, we had it coming.

To be fair, they did declare war. We just translated it too late to be of use, or so I have always heard it.

you bomb the test, we bomb you back, don't fuck up.

so what'd you find about vietnam being taught in america? if you found anything weird or strange, you heard wrong. in my school (in michigan, a blue(liberal) state as opposed to a red (conservative) state) we were taught that america was paranoid with communism so JFK had no choice (sarcasm) but to invade vietnam and help south vietnam fight back the invading communists/NVA(who had all ready taken over most of the country). he had good intentions about it and all, he was one of my favorite presidents nothing against him, but then he got dead, so LBJ (who was VP because no one wanted him to become president) became president and fucked everything up. he didn't realize that he'd be getting maaaaany american soliders including willam defoe killed for a reason a drug inspired hippie culture nation didn't understand because they were too young. so it was a loosing battle and johnson "vietnamized" the place (south vietnam troops were trained better and we GTFO'd). so pretty much iraq happened in the asian jungle.

I think its funny how according to you, in a blue state school, that the teachers tried desperately to absolve Kennedy (beloved of liberals historical reality notwithstanding) of any responsibility for going into Vietnam, and try to demonize Johnson, (I guess because he was from Texas?) even though Johnson was way more hardcore liberal than Kennedy. The truth was that Kennedy actually believed in the "domino theory", and he was proven right after we left South Vietnam. South Vietnam fell to the communists, along with Laos and Cambodia. Millions of people ended up being killed in Cambodia (in the name of the people of course). Just for the record, Kennedy also believed in lower taxes to boost business and employment. He is famously quoted as saying "A rising tide lifts all boats". (should be obvious, but today only right wing extremists believe that lol).

Several issues here. Kennedy believed in the Domino Theory, true, but he was for a VERY limited role in Vietnam, despite his military advisers telling him to charge in, as Johnson did. Johnson is held responsible for the war because he took a small conflict and elevated it to the point we had 500,000 troops on the ground.

Kennedy was also for lower taxes, in the same way Obama is. He wanted to lower the rate, but eliminate the mountains of deductions. In the 1960s, the top marginal rate was around 90%, and it stayed there until the 1980s when Reagan finally did what Kennedy wanted. It had the effect of lowering the rate, but by closing loopholes it actually raised revenues. Now, we are at the lowest rates in history, with companies making the largest profits in history, and they still cry for lower.

 

[tekdeath]

I have taught in Japan in Japanese schools for about 15 years. I teach social studies at a Japanese university now. In Japanese history classes they almost exclusively focus on the bombings themselves and portray Japan as a victim country. The events leading up to the bombings such as the invasion of China and SE Asia, atrocities against civilians and POWS, "comfort women," Unit 731, the Pearl Harbor attack, etc. are completely ignored to such an extent that many young Japanese are not aware they happened at all.

You beat me to it. This pretty much sums it up. I could barely tolerate "teaching" English in the Japanese school system, let alone teach social studies given how much they just gloss over.

 

[Dracowrath]

"Lememba kids, neva taunt amelica, they no kidding when they say 'We have big bomb!'"

I know you're trying to be funny and all...but they can't sound out the letter l because they don't have one, at least not without practice. It's actually an r for them.

Yes yes, we know, way to ruin the joke captain buzzkill.

 

[CleverCover]

"Lememba kids, neva taunt amelica, they no kidding when they say 'We have big bomb!'"

I know you're trying to be funny and all...but they can't sound out the letter l because they don't have one, at least not without practice. It's actually an r for them.

Yes yes, we know, way to ruin the joke captain buzzkill.

If the joke had been, I dunno, funny, I wouldn't have said anything.

 

[Leadfinger]

I have taught in Japan in Japanese schools for about 15 years. I teach social studies at a Japanese university now. In Japanese history classes they almost exclusively focus on the bombings themselves and portray Japan as a victim country. The events leading up to the bombings such as the invasion of China and SE Asia, atrocities against civilians and POWS, "comfort women," Unit 731, the Pearl Harbor attack, etc. are completely ignored to such an extent that many young Japanese are not aware they happened at all.

You beat me to it. This pretty much sums it up. I could barely tolerate "teaching" English in the Japanese school system, let alone teach social studies given how much they just gloss over.

Amen, brother.

 

[Dracowrath]

"Lememba kids, neva taunt amelica, they no kidding when they say 'We have big bomb!'"

I know you're trying to be funny and all...but they can't sound out the letter l because they don't have one, at least not without practice. It's actually an r for them.

Yes yes, we know, way to ruin the joke captain buzzkill.

If the joke had been, I dunno, funny, I wouldn't have said anything.

Just because you didn't find it funny doesnt mean nobody else on the planet would have.

 

[mega48man]

you bomb the test, we bomb you back, don't fuck up.

so what'd you find about vietnam being taught in america? if you found anything weird or strange, you heard wrong. in my school (in michigan, a blue(liberal) state as opposed to a red (conservative) state) we were taught that america was paranoid with communism so JFK had no choice (sarcasm) but to invade vietnam and help south vietnam fight back the invading communists/NVA(who had all ready taken over most of the country). he had good intentions about it and all, he was one of my favorite presidents nothing against him, but then he got dead, so LBJ (who was VP because no one wanted him to become president) became president and fucked everything up. he didn't realize that he'd be getting maaaaany american soliders including willam defoe killed for a reason a drug inspired hippie culture nation didn't understand because they were too young. so it was a loosing battle and johnson "vietnamized" the place (south vietnam troops were trained better and we GTFO'd). so pretty much iraq happened in the asian jungle.

I think its funny how according to you, in a blue state school, that the teachers tried desperately to absolve Kennedy (beloved of liberals historical reality notwithstanding) of any responsibility for going into Vietnam, and try to demonize Johnson, (I guess because he was from Texas?) even though Johnson was way more hardcore liberal than Kennedy. The truth was that Kennedy actually believed in the "domino theory", and he was proven right after we left South Vietnam. South Vietnam fell to the communists, along with Laos and Cambodia. Millions of people ended up being killed in Cambodia (in the name of the people of course). Just for the record, Kennedy also believed in lower taxes to boost business and employment. He is famously quoted as saying "A rising tide lifts all boats". (should be obvious, but today only right wing extremists believe that lol).

oh yeah, pretty much every president since truman believed in the domino theory (the truman doctrine). and you're probably right about the blue/red state thing, everyone with some kind of power in this fuckin country is on some political agenda. but JFK was my favorite because he had to make it through the cuban missile crisis which if he had failed, we all would of died like you ain't seen red dawn. plus, his quotes have inspired me to do better at the things i'm good at.

 

[Kevon Huggins]

I have taught in Japan in Japanese schools for about 15 years. I teach social studies at a Japanese university now. In Japanese history classes they almost exclusively focus on the bombings themselves and portray Japan as a victim country. The events leading up to the bombings such as the invasion of China and SE Asia, atrocities against civilians and POWS, "comfort women," Unit 731, the Pearl Harbor attack, etc. are completely ignored to such an extent that many young Japanese are not aware they happened at all.

Finally someone answered the question You deserve a huge pie

 

[Kevon Huggins]

Japon is japan is spanish

 

[Owen Robertson]

I wonder how the English discuss the IRA. Or how Germany teaches their history. Or how Canada teaches that we treated aboriginal (native, or indian to the ridiculously ignorant) peoples in the 19th century worse than America treated African-Americans in the 20th. Oh that's right. We pretend it never happened. Everyone's got skeletons in their closets, right?

I think you be surprised how the Germans teach their history. they teach it in depth, they don't gloss over it at all and are extremely hard on themselves.

as for the "English" (i assume you actually mean British) and the IRA it doesn't get taught as history yet because its living memory. you're talking to someone right now who had school friends die in "the troubles" and if you meant slightly further back (such as Michael Collins and all that) you can opt to cover it in high school i believe. then there's things like the Bloody Sunday Inquiry conducted at great expense 38 years after the event and i quote:

The results were published on 15 June 2010. British Prime Minister David Cameron addressed the House of Commons that afternoon where he acknowledged, among other things, that the paratroopers had fired the first shot, had fired on fleeing unarmed civilians, and shot and killed one man who was already wounded. He then apologised on behalf of the British Government

so no we don't "pretend it didn't happened". generally speaking we understand acknowledging history, even when its uncomfortable, is important in this country.

My bad. The "we" was referring to my commonwealth self. The Canadian history. We gloss over plenty of horrific details. And I did mean the Brtiish. Once again, my bad.