How is the American War for Independance taught in the UK?

[LinwoodElrich]

False. When America broke away it was basically just half the east coast. I'm not good at geography, so I'm not sure if the thirteen colonies WERE bigger than the UK, but I know they weren't 4 times it's size. We didn't get the mid west until we bought it from France and didn't get the west coast until we had a hissy fit with Mexico over it. All of which took place waaaaay the fuck after the revolution.

If you are going to jump on something someone said you should read the later comments. I have already answered that statement on multiple occasions and other people actually pointed out that the colonies were about three times the size but since I had been talking about how the country broke away and then grew to over four times it is in fact irrelevant though I'm happy to see I got close to the actual at that time too.

 

[SilentCom]

I'm pretty sure someone may have already stated this but the American Revolution used ideas that were (and still are) held up high by both England and America. The ideas that led to the American Revolution were highly influenced by the ideas of John Locke. These ideas were pertaining to certain freedoms or rights such as life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness (property). In addition, the idea of revolting against a tyrannical government (Americans viewed it as tyrannical anyways) as to maintain the well being of the people.

 

[Daffy F]

With a lot of you guys from across the Pond I am very curious as to how the UK treats this part in your history.

As far as I know it isn't covered in school. I was certainly never taught it, with the result being I know very little about it.

I don't think it's greatly important in the grand scheme of British history.

This too, the empire had so many colonies, and we don't learn much about say, India's independance either. I think this is because England no longer has an empire, and it isn't relevant to our lives at all, wilst in America your independace sort of hinges on the fact that you were no longer a part of the empire, so it makes sense that you would learn more about it than we do.

 

[Naturality]

It wasn't. They taught us to spell instead.

Independence.

 

[A Shadows Age]

Typical American arrogance to assume it's taught at all.

We teach the Magna Carta, John Locke, the Bill of Rights.

America is the most important country in the world. It would be remiss not to touch on its founding, especially when that event had ramifications that utterly remade Europe and South America.

Watch that black kettle there.

Are you two twins ?

 

[Little Duck]

There were slaves. People didn't like this idea but others did, so a war broke out. Something about the underground rail road THE END!

 

[A Shadows Age]

It wasn't. They taught us to spell instead.

Independence.

I think I'm in love with you, just for posting that.

 

[Daffy F]

Now what I wanna know is, what does the US do?

I believe it is generally thoguht that America's current main export is entertainment. Almost every single big film is made in America, or is made by Americans, and I believe that is considered to be their biggest industry now.

It wasn't. They taught us to spell instead.

Independence.

ZING!

 

[Supp]

Well, most Americans couldn't even tell you where Finland is on a map!

...So there!

 

[Verlander]

I've wondered this before. I also wonder how World War 2 and the Holocaust are covered in Germany.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal for them to teach since it was a time when the Nazis were in power. I'm pretty sure that's not true though. Let me get back to you on that.

Spoiler: No it's not. Click here if you want more info.

"Hi, I am German and in my mid-40s.
It is the exact opposite to ?just another fact? in German school teaching. It preoccupies the largest part of all subjects taught in history and social science lessons.

In Germany every detail of WW1, Weimar Republic, WW2 and the Holocaust is taught in history lessons in detail. Every school year there is a special activity on the holocaust with seminars and workshops.
It is rather intense and sobering if you sit in school and from the age of 13-18 years old, every year you hear about your country?s morbid history.
But because of it, you understand better how the situation came about, what people did or did not do and leaned to understand why the sentence ?Never in this country again? is so important.
We can only walk the earth with our heads held up high, if we admit to the atrocities that were committed in our name or our ancestors name.

This is the reason why the denial of the Holocaust is a criminal offensive in Germany and punished by imprisonment.

It is illegal in Germany for the reason that it was a crime committed on German soil by the German government 1933-1945.
Volksverhetzung: ?stirring up the populace?, ?agitation of the people?) is a concept in German criminal law that bans the incitement of hatred against a segment of the population. It often applies in, though it is not limited to, trials relating to Holocaust denial in Germany. The German penal code (Strafgesetzbuch) establishes that someone is guilty of Volksverhetzung if he:

in a manner that is capable of disturbing the public peace:

1. incites hatred against segments of the population or calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them; or
2. assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning, or defaming segments of the population

There are also special provisions for holocaust denial (added in the 1990s) and speech justifying or glorifying the Nazi government 1933-1945.

Although freedom of speech is mentioned by Article 5 of the Grundgesetz (Germany?s constitution), said article basically protects any non-outlawed speech. Restrictions exist, e.g. against personal insults, use of symbols of unconstitutional organizations, or Volksverhetzung. It is a common misconception that Volksverhetzung includes any spreading of nazism, racist, or other discriminatory ideas. For any hate speech to be punishable as Volksverhetzung, the law requires that said speech be ?qualified for disturbing public peace? either by inciting ?hatred against parts of the populace? or calling for ?acts of violence or despotism against them?, or by attacking ?the human dignity of others by reviling, maliciously making contemptible or slandering parts of the populace?.

Volksverhetzung is a punishable offense under Germany?s criminal code and can lead to up to five years imprisonment. Volksverhetzung is punishable in Germany even if committed abroad and even if committed by non-German citizens, if the incitement of hatred takes effect on German territory?that is, the seditious sentiment was expressed in written or spoken German and disseminated in Germany.
Similar laws exist in UK, Ireland, Sweden and Finland.

?But if someone chooses to believe that it didn?t happen..whats the problem, why should it be a crime?? many people ask.
If someone believes that Jewish people are not humans and should be killed in concentrations camps, that is a problem and it is a crime. Holocaust deniers do not deny it because they have not seen the proof, they deny it because they sympathise with Nazis. Someone has to make a stand against Neo-Nazis and the German people have taken up that task.
If you deny the Holocaust existed then you can argue it should not be taught in history lessons in schools and the likelyhood of it re-occurring is higher. If nobody sees it to be a problem because they are kept ignorant, dictators and manipulators have it easy again.

Link for reference.

But it is illegal to do anything to affiliate one's self with the Nazi Party or Neo-Nazis with the intent of inciting hatred (ie: owning/exchanging contraband, giving salutes, goose-stepping, the whole nine yards). At least I got that part right.

Except that anti semitism ISN'T illegal in the UK. Incitement of racial hatred is, but this fella fudged the details slightly.

OT: The American Revolution is such a very very very small part of UK history, it usually isn't covered at all. We only have a couple of hours a week max to learn about over 2000 years of war and invasion, and considering the Empire grew rapidly post "revolution", it's not considered very important.

Also, in Britain, a vast majority of students stop learning History between the ages of 14 and 16, depending on their GCSE options

I've wondered this before. I also wonder how World War 2 and the Holocaust are covered in Germany.

Used to be not at all, until student campaigned in the 90's to have it taught to them, they deserved to know.
Now if only England could own up to its mistakes... It'd be nice to have work houses taught to us in a more comprehensive manner... rather than...

Two things.

1) Victorian Britain WASN'T just England. Workhouses like this existed in Scotland Wales and Ireland just the same.

2) Depending on your school, they were taught to us in a comprehensive manner. Like I mentioned above, we only have a short stretch of time to learn a fuck load of history, and it's slightly more important to learn about MASSIVE mistakes, that cost the lives of millions (such as the destruction of Aborigines, the oppression of India, and the world wars).

There were slaves. People didn't like this idea but others did, so a war broke out. Something about the underground rail road THE END!

Wrong war...

 

[Naturality]

It wasn't. They taught us to spell instead.

Independence.

I think I'm in love with you, just for posting that.

Aww shucks.

 

[pulse2]

As far as I've ever remembered, it has always been a pretty negative perception, native indians being shifted to make way for colonists and the slavery of black people, I don't think there was ever that much consideration for independance, to be honest, I don't think many would care :/

I think the point is that there are so many cultures and races within the UK that it has gotten to a point where everyone despite being patriotic to britian because we live here after all, are more interested in learning about our own cultures and races, the last thing we care about or pay interest to is that of American history. It isn't ignorance so much as American's who rarely pay interest to what goes on over here or points in history where America was successful. There is so much british history to cover that we barely have the time to cover American history as well, ours goes back even further than American history, we have to consider all the great kings and queens, the literature and the arts, the wars we had with Ireland, with France, with Spain, with Scotland, with Germany, with the roman empire.

To be honest, when all these things are put into consideration, American independance from us is pretty low on the priority list, it sounds bad, but every country is patriotic and the history of that country will come first, let alone the history and cultures of the many individuals living in the UK, from blacks, to indians, to turkish, to chinese and more.

Of course there are opportunities to study American history and culture if it interests you at colleges and universities, but I don't think many schools bother to cover Americanism, in fact, more schools cover latin then they do Americanism. As a kid I knew nothing about American history, as UK history was the most important, let alone EU histroy which expands even more so than UK's.

Conclusion: Unlike America as a country (not the people living in it), the EU is massive in different culture and history, each and every culture and history of each and every country within the EU has had an effect on who we are today, so they are all important, other than American's influence in the World Wars and the crusaders ventureing over to colonise, American history has had little relevance in UK schools. Remember, we don't have states in the EU, we have entirely different countries, each of which is patriotic to their own and each of which is incredibly important to the creation of the british empire as we know it today.

 

[Stabby Joe]

I was taught the following subjects from both primary, secondary and sixth form (that's in between school and uni) in history:

- Roman Empire
- Renaissance
- World War I (various)
- World War II (various)
- Cold War

That's a pretty hefty load of history there. Much of which I'd consider very important parts of history... so yeah, the UK looks at plenty of periods including those outside one's own country.

 

[fredster117]

well in my school we learned it as a foot note to the british empire we where learning mainly about english tec but for some reason we got on the subject of well i qoute from a student "i dont wish to learn about americans there stupid and think there the best" becuse he thought you claim that and the fact you brag alot.....all i had to say about it is why do they like us saying banana

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

The War of independence is really just a footnote in english history. The 13 colonies were never really all that important to the empire what with the main focus being india and south east asia. And killing those darned frenchies of course
English history usually starts with the romans, and if we are lucky (at least in my old school) we get up to ww2. there are events of far greater importance with a far greater impact on the history of the UK than the US revolution. Back when i was in school if we wanted to learn about things like US history or French history etc we had to do it ourselves.
Even at A level (16-18 years old) its most common to focus on the Russian revolution and the rise of Germany (From unification to ww2)

 

[Gustavo S. Buschle]

I believe it is generally thoguht that America's current main export is entertainment. Almost every single big film is made in America, or is made by Americans, and I believe that is considered to be their biggest industry now.

Valid point I guess.

 

[Rayne870]

It probably focuses mostly on the tea and the astonishment that Americans were fighting from cover and without the aid of pipers, drummers and scarlet uniforms.

In truth though from what I have heard from friends is that it just isn't a big focus and explained more as colonies breaking off in general.

 

[Stabby Joe]

Also I think I can sum up certain posts here, or at least where these sorts of threads can usually go:

MY COUNTRY'S **** IS BIGGER THAN YOURS!

It's kind of sad really when most of the time people here are all a collective for their love of games and relevant shows but then BAM! Suddenly it's all revisionist history from all sides with all the hate that comes with it.

 

[elvor0]

Mainly that they stole our tea (the bastards!), because they were jealous of it . There was a bit of a war and we lost. That's about it. Barely gets touched upon in British Schools.