How much LP footage did Anita Sarkeesian "steal", exactly?

IceForce

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Definitely not all of it, and allow me to explain why.

First of all, I encourage you to watch the following Thunderf00t video:


If you don't want to watch all of it, that's fine. The relevant parts are 3:10 and 5:40

At 3:10, Thunderf00t claims that he watched "about 40 or so" LPs on Youtube, and concludes that none of the LPs he watched showed the strippers being attacked (like they are in Anita's video).

At 5:40, Thunderf00t says "she then presumably goes and kills the dancers herself".

So okay, if we are to believe Thunderf00t, he's saying that he looked through "40 or so" different playthroughs of the mission in question, and found NONE of them played it the way Anita played it.
He then concludes that Anita must have "killed the dancers herself".

But hold on a sec. I thought all of Anita's footage was "stolen" from let's plays on Youtube?

So which is it? Either she's playing the game(s) wrong (but definitely still playing them herself), OR she's NOT playing them and "stealing" the footage instead.

It can't be both.
 

Hiigara_Ahead

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Doesn't matter. A thief who steals a little, is still a thief. It's the act of thievery that matters, not the amount that you stole.

Try again.
 

IceForce

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The point I'm making is that the people decrying Anita for "stealing all the footage she's using", are often the very same people who follow what Thunderf00t says.

All I'm doing is pointing out the cognitive dissonance.
 

laraem

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Also it's bloody game footage people don't own the rights to game footage so the whole stealing things is BS anyway.
 

Thaluikhain

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laraem said:
Also it's bloody game footage people don't own the rights to game footage so the whole stealing things is BS anyway.
I think it's more the breaking into people's house and stealing their reels of gameplay film that gets people.

She totally does that.
 

laraem

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thaluikhain said:
laraem said:
Also it's bloody game footage people don't own the rights to game footage so the whole stealing things is BS anyway.
I think it's more the breaking into people's house and stealing their reels of gameplay film that gets people.

She totally does that.
Damnit, that changes everything Anita really is the mustache twirling, black hat wearin', video game destoryin' villain after all.
 

Nukekitten

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LPers should be rather careful about accusing people of 'stealing' footage like that when so many of them are playing around in the fair use playground.

Though one example is hardly evidence of a general theme either way.
 

VanQ

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I think the footage he claims she stole was in a previous video. Not in the Hitman one. In fact, the Hitman video came out well after the stealing criticism. So it's kind of disingenuous to make this argument and use the Hitman video to try to prove your point.
 

totheendofsin

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laraem said:
Also it's bloody game footage people don't own the rights to game footage so the whole stealing things is BS anyway.
It's not illegal, but it's still a dick move to use it without asking or crediting where you got it from (didn't she also use fan art without asking or crediting the artist?)

also it calls into question exactly how much of the game she's played, or whether or not she specifically plays the parts of the game she does play in a way to get footage that supports her conclusion, afterall can't claim Hitman encourages you to kill the strippers (which is false) without footage showing you doing that.
 

Batou667

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IceForce said:
But hold on a sec. I thought all of Anita's footage was "stolen" from let's plays on Youtube?

So which is it? Either she's playing the game(s) wrong (but definitely still playing them herself), OR she's NOT playing them and "stealing" the footage instead.

It can't be both.
Most of her footage pre-"Women as background decoration" was taken from other YouTuber's uploads. It's worth noting that the criticisms being made at this point weren't about "theft" (as the intellectual property remains with the game publishers/developers) but the dishonesty inherent in a) using uncredited work and b) not generating her own footage, despite "extensive research" being a key part of her Kickstrater justification.

The footage used in her last couple of videos has been notably different - the clips are longer, they relate much more closely to what claim she's making at the time, and as many people have pointed out, they're very selectively enacted and edited. So, it seems Anita has started generating her own footage (whether any of the previous footage was hers, and whether all of the current footage is now hers, is unknown - but clearly at least some of it is now). Presumably this is a) in reaction to people pointing out her uncredited use of other people's work and b) to better showcase the point she's making.

In a nutshell: yes, it is both, and that's not a contradiction because we're talking about a series of videos containing scores of individual clips over the time span of several months.
 

veloper

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Nukekitten said:
LPers should be rather careful about accusing people of 'stealing' footage like that when so many of them are playing around in the fair use playground.

Though one example is hardly evidence of a general theme either way.
You're right on the money.
Anita just shows a couple minutes of any particular game. She's more in the safe zone than most LPers. Crediting a LP would be nice, if there actually is one for this bit of Hitman footage, but it is no big deal.
 

communist gamer

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She did steal gameplays, well steal its the wrong word, she did not give credit to the guys who made it, which wile not illegal is a big no-no in the world of any entertainment, and is in fact plagiarism, unfortunately the kind that I believe is not punishable as stated above. She also has stated before that she is not a gamer, you know she is criticizing the gaming world, attacking it and trying to force change upon it, while not being part of the hobby which is a another big no-no. If you combine the fact that she dose not considered herself a gamer, takes other people lets plays (a few people have stated that there is no gameplay recorded by her what so ever) and the fact that she has incredibly cherry-picked clips of the game that are made to support her argument, I have the feeling that she dose not play the games, she just makes up a theory, watches a lets play, picks up the clips that suit her while ignoring the whole rest of the game and makes a video (there are hundreds upon hundreds of examples of her doing pretty much that, Deus ex: HR, Bioschock 2 (I think it was 2), and watch_dogs are just three examples of her either missing the context in which the scene is taking place or just ignoring it for the sake of her "argument"). Just my two cents
 

Kingjackl

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Wow, isn't that the most heinous crime a person could possibly commit...

It's ironic that she gets slagged for 'cherry-picking' examples, when there are people who seriously accuse her of something as trivial as this. By that same logic, Let's Players are 'stealing' gameplay footage by recording them in the first place. If they believe they are entitled to protection under fair use, then I don't see why people who use their footage shouldn't be entitled to the same protections. Especially if it's Let's Play that contains no added commentary, since that can be essentially considered a record of the game itself. If you can't use archived game footage for academic purposes, then what is that footage good for?
 

laraem

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totheendofsin said:
laraem said:
Also it's bloody game footage people don't own the rights to game footage so the whole stealing things is BS anyway.
It's not illegal, but it's still a dick move to use it without asking or crediting where you got it from (didn't she also use fan art without asking or crediting the artist?)

also it calls into question exactly how much of the game she's played, or whether or not she specifically plays the parts of the game she does play in a way to get footage that supports her conclusion, afterall can't claim Hitman encourages you to kill the strippers (which is false) without footage showing you doing that.
Again it's literally footage of a game, that's it. That's all. This is a non controversy blown up because it's Anita.

The fan art was by all accounts an accident and she removed it

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/133115-Feminist-Frequency-Removes-Fan-Art-From-Tropes-Vs-Women-Banner

Again that stuff happens and with anyone else it would be no scandal (it was legit resolved in 11 days) were it not Anita.
 

totheendofsin

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laraem said:
totheendofsin said:
laraem said:
Also it's bloody game footage people don't own the rights to game footage so the whole stealing things is BS anyway.
It's not illegal, but it's still a dick move to use it without asking or crediting where you got it from (didn't she also use fan art without asking or crediting the artist?)

also it calls into question exactly how much of the game she's played, or whether or not she specifically plays the parts of the game she does play in a way to get footage that supports her conclusion, afterall can't claim Hitman encourages you to kill the strippers (which is false) without footage showing you doing that.
Again it's literally footage of a game, that's it. That's all. This is a non controversy blown up because it's Anita.

The fan art was by all accounts an accident and she removed it

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/133115-Feminist-Frequency-Removes-Fan-Art-From-Tropes-Vs-Women-Banner

Again that stuff happens and with anyone else it would be no scandal (it was legit resolved in 11 days) were it not Anita.
I don't really follow news regarding her so I wasn't aware the fan art thing had been resolved, My mistake
 

Xeorm

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TopazFusion said:
Yeah, this is what I don't understand about the complaint of Anita stealing footage (or rather, not giving credit for it).

Because it's entirely possible to replicate the gameplay footage exactly frame-for-frame (or at least, get very close to it), and still get exactly the same end result.

Should credit be given in that case also? Of course not.
I'm sure people would be rather angry to hear that they weren't accredited for filming or taking pictures of objects in real life and to not get credited for their work.

Using other people's work without accreditation is something she should most certainly get criticized for. You could argue that LPs are maybe not the most original of works out there, but there was effort put into making them and that should be acknowledged if someone else wishes to use that effort in their own works.
 

laraem

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The_Kodu said:
Sorry but doesn't that tell you something ?

40 or so lets plays on youtube and none of them killed the stripper.

So really I want to know how Anita can claim it's meant to be done when it doesn't seem like anyone on youtube actually did that anyway.

Did Anita Steal all the footage, no probably not. Because some of the scenarios she sets up are just that, set ups. Ones that don't occur in normal gameplay.


She has still yet to properly credit the lets play footage or even acknowledge it as not being her content.

It can't be both ?

Well on the whole in the series and or individual video yes it can be both.
I've seen the Farcry stripper thing posted on youtube as it's own video before Anita did it.

For one individual game clip she can't normally both have a set up non standard gameplay shot and have stolen footage. However you're argument relies on the idea that Anita's videos only consist of a single gameplay clip, not multiple ones potentially from multiple sources.

laraem said:
Also it's bloody game footage people don't own the rights to game footage so the whole stealing things is BS anyway.
Technically they do under copyright law as it's a transformative piece, Lets Plays will be similar but not all the same. It's a legally grey area in reality but the common consensus is becoming that they count just about as transformative pieces.
I imagine they might own the audio (which she doesn't use) but the video I highly doubt, it's the equivalent of screen capping a movie and claiming you have rights to the footage because you screen capped. Unless you are going to argue that the act of manipulating the character to move via controller somehow constitutes transformative art.

Regardless it's at worst fair use.


totheendofsin said:
laraem said:
totheendofsin said:
laraem said:
Also it's bloody game footage people don't own the rights to game footage so the whole stealing things is BS anyway.
It's not illegal, but it's still a dick move to use it without asking or crediting where you got it from (didn't she also use fan art without asking or crediting the artist?)

also it calls into question exactly how much of the game she's played, or whether or not she specifically plays the parts of the game she does play in a way to get footage that supports her conclusion, afterall can't claim Hitman encourages you to kill the strippers (which is false) without footage showing you doing that.
Again it's literally footage of a game, that's it. That's all. This is a non controversy blown up because it's Anita.

The fan art was by all accounts an accident and she removed it

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/133115-Feminist-Frequency-Removes-Fan-Art-From-Tropes-Vs-Women-Banner

Again that stuff happens and with anyone else it would be no scandal (it was legit resolved in 11 days) were it not Anita.
I don't really follow news regarding her so I wasn't aware the fan art thing had been resolved, My mistake
To be frank I had to look all that up because the amount I actually care about FemFeq is very little beyond I really wish people would stop treating her like literal Satan out to kill games. She offers dry 101 level cultural/feminist analysis and the fact that she gets this reaction means we're far off from ever having truly interesting more advanced cultural/feminist art analysis in games.