How much LP footage did Anita Sarkeesian "steal", exactly?

BadNewDingus

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Who cares? This isn't the point. Thunderf00t is like Anita, and that is reaching for straws. He knows he can get a bunch of men on his side, just like Anita can get a bunch of women on her side and thus more YouTube views and exposure.

Ugh, how I long for the days when we just talked about how crappy games are, not if they are hurting someone's feelings. That's for people in politics.
 

lemby117

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Nukekitten said:
LPers should be rather careful about accusing people of 'stealing' footage like that when so many of them are playing around in the fair use playground.

Ding ding ding! Somebody give the man a prize!

No seriously LP'ers claiming that someone is stealing their content is pretty funny. I love LP's and have done a few myself but come on its not like she uploded a full LP, she took clips from it to emphasise her point, thats a more clear cut example of fair use than most LPs.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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IceForce said:
At 3:10, Thunderf00t claims that he watched "about 40 or so" LPs on Youtube, and concludes that none of the LPs he watched showed the strippers being attacked (like they are in Anita's video).
I recall testing this statement and finding different results. One of the first play lets play I found was someone attacking the strippers well spouting many vile sexist comments as they did it.
 

BloatedGuppy

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I believe OP's point is that Thunderf00t is using sloppy logic in his argumentation, which is the exactly same thing we pillory Anita for. It might have helped establish this if he had included that conclusion in his OP instead of his snarky 2nd post. This same analysis can be applied to the Christina Sommers video that made the rounds, which was even sloppier and more poorly substantiated than Sarkeesian or Thunderf00t.

What can we derive from this?

1. YouTube does not tend to be an academically rigorous medium, and there seems to be a push toward sensationalism over substance. The way YouTube functions in terms of views would seem to encourage this.

2. People are yowling hypocrites and will embrace whatever polarizing nonsense confirms their biases, either oblivious to how poorly it is presented or simply not caring.
 

drakonz

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problem is that she does not give credit to lets players who's gameplay he uses in her videos while the lets players generaly always mention the name of game. see the difference? there would not problem at all if she would bother to give credits to other people like she should
 

BloatedGuppy

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The_Kodu said:
A lot of her examples are wrong. Hell in some cases she disproves her own examples in Women as Background Decoration 2 such as the Fary cry 3 prostitute which she then claims adds to the sexism rather than disproves her original claims.

So yes point accepted that Thunderf00t was lazy and could have (and probably should have) done far more damning work.
Sarkeesian occasionally uses some bizarre intuitive leaps, such as in the aforementioned Hitman video. She'll also occasionally give rise to the question of just how familiar she is with source material, and will conflate subversion of tropes with actual tropes.

It doesn't mean her conclusions or general premises are automatically wrong, it just means she uses some pretty dubious argumentation to support them. I've never understood the desperation to "unmask" the woman and expose her for a charlatan. I watched one video, found it relatively boring, and never watched another. Others have been fixated on the woman for literal years at this point. In the case of YouTube videos demonizing her I can see why...it's stupid and controversial and rakes in easy views and profit. In the case of random forum goers, I'm quite genuinely baffled. I mean, I hated Sommers after watching one of her videos, but I haven't made it my business to start a new Sommers thread every 25 seconds or follow her other work closely.
 

Roxas1359

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The only thing I'll say on this matter is this, if you are going to use the LP footage of others, and it has been confirmed without a doubt that it was from that person's playthrough, then you should credit them just like you would credit any other source. Anything can be replicated for footage, and it's easier if it's a scripted event. However, if it was not and you are trying to recreate it then you'll have a hard time doing so given how in game NPCs aren't like actors and you can't put them in the same place they once were. Unless the video in question on YouTube has a Creative Commons icon on it, you have to obtain permission from the uploader to use it, as is stated in YouTube's Terms of Service. Whether people follow that or not is another story, but that's how it's supposed to be, and in any attempt at being scientific then one should always credit outside sources.

And before the chance of some people jumping me, I do credit the developers, publishers, voice actors, and composers in most if not all my LPs. I don't know who the hell Thunderf00t is, and personal I believe women do need more representation in games, but Anita is not a good person to be considered the one leading the charge due to how she supports her arguments. Not only that, but she has such a negative connotation now, that it'd be impossible to get anywhere in all honesty.
 

IceForce

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Batou667 said:
The footage used in her last couple of videos has been notably different - the clips are longer, they relate much more closely to what claim she's making at the time, and as many people have pointed out, they're very selectively enacted and edited. So, it seems Anita has started generating her own footage (whether any of the previous footage was hers, and whether all of the current footage is now hers, is unknown - but clearly at least some of it is now). Presumably this is a) in reaction to people pointing out her uncredited use of other people's work and b) to better showcase the point she's making.
Okay, thanks. I was unaware of the timeframe difference.
 

IceForce

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nomotog said:
IceForce said:
At 3:10, Thunderf00t claims that he watched "about 40 or so" LPs on Youtube, and concludes that none of the LPs he watched showed the strippers being attacked (like they are in Anita's video).
I recall testing this statement and finding different results. One of the first play lets play I found was someone attacking the strippers well spouting many vile sexist comments as they did it.
This is interesting. It wasn't the same footage used in Anita's video was it? (Minus the audio, obviously.)
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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IceForce said:
nomotog said:
IceForce said:
At 3:10, Thunderf00t claims that he watched "about 40 or so" LPs on Youtube, and concludes that none of the LPs he watched showed the strippers being attacked (like they are in Anita's video).
I recall testing this statement and finding different results. One of the first play lets play I found was someone attacking the strippers well spouting many vile sexist comments as they did it.
This is interesting. It wasn't the same footage used in Anita's video was it? (Minus the audio, obviously.)
No. The footage I found was very different. It was much more ick. If you look you might be able to find it. When I looked it was at the top of the results and you will kind of know it when you see it. (I did end up finding a whole rainbow of lets plays from the most civil to the aforementioned offensive one.)
 

Happiness Assassin

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I don't know. Also I don't think stealing is the right word, plagiarism is "more" correct, as she used images of which she was not the creator for her videos without the proper citations, which does in fact constitute plagiarism. That is, assuming she did such a thing, which I honestly have not looked into nor do I wish to.
 

psijac

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IceForce said:
Definitely not all of it, and allow me to explain why.

First of all, I encourage you to watch the following Thunderf00t video:


If you don't want to watch all of it, that's fine. The relevant parts are 3:10 and 5:40

At 3:10, Thunderf00t claims that he watched "about 40 or so" LPs on Youtube, and concludes that none of the LPs he watched showed the strippers being attacked (like they are in Anita's video).

At 5:40, Thunderf00t says "she then presumably goes and kills the dancers herself".

So okay, if we are to believe Thunderf00t, he's saying that he looked through "40 or so" different playthroughs of the mission in question, and found NONE of them played it the way Anita played it.
He then concludes that Anita must have "killed the dancers herself".

But hold on a sec. I thought all of Anita's footage was "stolen" from let's plays on Youtube?

So which is it? Either she's playing the game(s) wrong (but definitely still playing them herself), OR she's NOT playing them and "stealing" the footage instead.

It can't be both.
Thank you for taking time to watch the thunderfoot video.
This is like the argument that Barack Obama is a secret Muslim. But he also an bad muslim eats bacon, so with is it? Well, the simplest answer is most often correct. That being bacon is delicious.

Moving on, just because people assume Anita doesn't play games doesn't mean her critics brlieve she will melt like the wicked witch of the west if you put a controller in her hand. She has done twitch streaming afterall. And her only melt down was an emotional one.

She could have asked one of her interns to generate that footage. She probably has several now.
 

Supdupadog

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Considering LP footage is taken and re-used all the time, if we're going to open this can of worms for Anita, we should open this cab of worms for everyone.

Also Anita's point about using the prostitute to distract guards still stands because it's a valid option for completing a task. That some people don't use it doesn't change the fact the game developers decided to implement it in the first place.
 

Lieju

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IceForce said:
So okay, if we are to believe Thunderf00t, he's saying that he looked through "40 or so" different playthroughs of the mission in question, and found NONE of them played it the way Anita played it.
He has way too much time on his hands.
As do all the people who have this weird obsession about Anita.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Lieju said:
IceForce said:
So okay, if we are to believe Thunderf00t, he's saying that he looked through "40 or so" different playthroughs of the mission in question, and found NONE of them played it the way Anita played it.
He has way too much time on his hands.
As do all the people who have this weird obsession about Anita.
Ya a lets play of that level could go half hour or more depending on how they play. That would be something like 20 hours or something. I don't get why people really care that much that they would spend that much time to debunk one minor claim.
 

Nukekitten

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If Anita wanted to have a go at the Hitman franchise she could have got far more mileage out of the nun advert they ran before launch. But this whole thing strikes me as a rather sad episode. I'm a woman and I don't find her criticisms worth following - but at the same time I sort of suspect if people hadn't kicked off at her we wouldn't be having this discussion because she'd have done her thing and it would all have blown over with a few people looking at it and going 'Huh?'

The drama some people have had around the whole thing has made her criticisms far more widely circulated than silent disapproval ever would.

Hopefully in a few months it will all blow over and we can go back to whatever it was we were doing beforehand. Someone with a better, more focused, take on our depiction in gaming can hopefully come along then and have a better shot. The field's just got to great a noise to signal ratio at the moment for anything useful to come through. Even if her criticisms were perfect from this point forwards, I don't think it would make a lot of difference.