How police brutality became a problem in the US

Worgen

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So a historian I follow just came out with a pretty interesting video called "Hoe Police Brutality become a problem in the USA." It's a pretty interesting dive into the history of the police, the various acts influencing them, the militarization of them and some solutions to the problem of them. What does the people think of his take?
Just be aware it does start with footage of cops behaving badly.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Can only watch the first two minutes right now but my initial reaction is, "Well gee, I wonder why there's so little crime in your area. What could possibly be the reason for that?"
 

Worgen

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Can only watch the first two minutes right now but my initial reaction is, "Well gee, I wonder why there's so little crime in your area. What could possibly be the reason for that?"
Hes an actual historian and professor so it would be folly to assume the usual youtube talking head.
 

SupahEwok

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Hes an actual historian and professor so it would be folly to assume the usual youtube talking head.
His Linkedin says that he's a PhD student, not a professor or professional historian. So that's a minus, although not unduly so. More of a caveat; doctoral study is more about doing the grunt work of research and writing academic articles for a full professor than anything else, so I believe him when he says he's read his citations. It also shows a small hodgepodge of service, technical, and Army jobs, so that actually buys some respect in my eyes, because there are few things more annoying than people who have not known life outside of the ivory tower.
 

Worgen

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His Linkedin says that he's a PhD student, not a professor or professional historian. So that's a minus, although not unduly so. More of a caveat; doctoral study is more about doing the grunt work of research and writing academic articles for a full professor than anything else, so I believe him when he says he's read his citations. It also shows a small hodgepodge of service, technical, and Army jobs, so that actually buys some respect in my eyes, because there are few things more annoying than people who have not known life outside of the ivory tower.
He actually has a 20 min vid about his history and service and family and how hes actually much more connected to historical figures then you would assume. Also I think his linked in is out of date, I think hes finished his PhD, but I would need to look through his stuff to be sure.
 

SupahEwok

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He actually has a 20 min vid about his history and service and family and how hes actually much more connected to historical figures then you would assume. Also I think his linked in is out of date, I think hes finished his PhD, but I would need to look through his stuff to be sure.
His Linkedin says that his planned studies go into 2022, making a 5 year schedule, which is normal for PhDs.

We're all linked to historical figures. My brother's a lieutenant in the Army. He's met a few generals. At least one of those generals has probably met Trump. Trump has met with most notable world leaders. That's a minimum of 4 degrees of seperation in my social network between me and the highest authorities in the world. Similar social networks could be traced in anybody's ancestry if they want to bother with it. Supposedly one of my ancestors was a Viceroy of British India and I'm related to Martha Washington.
 
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Worgen

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His Linkedin says that his planned studies go into 2022, making a 5 year schedule, which is normal for PhDs.

We're all linked to historical figures. My brother's a lieutenant in the Army. He's met a few generals. At least one of those generals has probably met Trump. Trump has met with most notable world leaders. That's a minimum of 4 degrees of seperation in my social network between me and the highest authorities in the world. Similar social networks could be traced in anybody's ancestry if they want to bother with it. Supposedly one of my ancestors was a Viceroy of British India and I'm related to Martha Washington.
Except his grand father is George Patton and his father is probably one of the best known historians in the world thanks to Pawn Stars.
 

stroopwafel

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A heavily armed population probably plays no small role why the police is militarized to such a degree. They need to be prepared to face some nutter with an AR-15. Cops are also under extremely high stress because of this(suicides are highest in this profession I believe). From there it just goes from bad to worse if you also add more unsavory types into the mix.

You can't separate the police from a general culture of violence that is very dominant in the U.S.
 

Trunkage

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A heavily armed population probably plays no small role why the police is militarized to such a degree. They need to be prepared to face some nutter with an AR-15. Cops are also under extremely high stress because of this(suicides are highest in this profession I believe). From there it just goes from bad to worse if you also add more unsavory types into the mix.

You can't separate the police from a general culture of violence that is very dominant in the U.S.
Yeah, the police cosplaying solider is such a weird thing, especially when they dismiss the rules that bind a soldier into treating people correctly.

But that seems very common for Americans on all sides. They want the rights but not the responsibility that goes with those rights. See Sovereign Citizen for an overblown example of this. So it's not just the culture of violence

Can only watch the first two minutes right now but my initial reaction is, "Well gee, I wonder why there's so little crime in your area. What could possibly be the reason for that?"
Generally? Specific targetting of minorities, which means they don't have time to worry about whites
 

Buyetyen

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A heavily armed population probably plays no small role why the police is militarized to such a degree. They need to be prepared to face some nutter with an AR-15. Cops are also under extremely high stress because of this(suicides are highest in this profession I believe). From there it just goes from bad to worse if you also add more unsavory types into the mix.

You can't separate the police from a general culture of violence that is very dominant in the U.S.
The profession with the highest suicide rates is actually construction and extraction, though the arts and entertainment industry have been seeing a disquieting spike the last couple years. Cops don't even make the top 10.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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Generally? Specific targetting of minorities, which means they don't have time to worry about whites
Trunkage, you probably want to reword that statement because as it is now it implies that to be a minority is to be a criminal.

To put it another way, it comes off the same way as, "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids."
 
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Trunkage

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Trunkage, you probably want to reword that statement because as it is now it implies that to be a minority is to be a criminal.

To put it another way, it comes off the same way as, "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids."
The specific targeting of Reagan and Clinton on Black people was about pretending all Blacks were criminals. Like, Clinton 100K officers weren’t placed in WHITE areas. Reagan’s welfare queens and drug lords ads were specially targeted at Blacks They were very specifically targeted, and then people wonder why 13/50 is a thing. It’s the inevitable outcome of way more police who are told blacks are criminals and told to specifically target them.

The media wasn’t much better, demonizing blacks for decades. So yes, being a minority was seen as criminal. Trump attacks on minorities aren’t new, they are normal for both sides of politics
 
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Specter Von Baren

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The specific targeting of Reagan and Clinton on Black people was about pretending all Blacks were criminals. Like, Clinton 100K officers weren’t placed in WHITE areas. Reagan’s welfare queens and drug lords ads were specially targeted at Blacks They were very specifically targeted, and then people wonder why 13/50 is a thing. It’s the inevitable outcome of way more police who are told blacks are criminals and told to specifically target them.

The media wasn’t much better, demonizing blacks for decades. So yes, being a minority was seen as criminal. Trump attacks on minorities aren’t new, they are normal for both sides of politics
WTF does that have to do with what I said?
 

Houseman

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Can only watch the first two minutes right now but my initial reaction is, "Well gee, I wonder why there's so little crime in your area. What could possibly be the reason for that?"
Generally? Specific targetting of minorities, which means they don't have time to worry about whites
It seems like you're saying that there's so little crime in his area because minorities are being specifically targeted.
Doesn't that imply that minorities are criminals that make areas unsafe?
I think this is what Specter is getting at.
 
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Trunkage

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It seems like you're saying that there's so little crime in his area because minorities are being specifically targeting.
Doesn't that imply that minorities are criminals that make areas unsafe?
I think this is what Specter is getting at.
That is definitely what multiple administration on both sides of politics implied

Crime rates went down over the whole world over the last few decades. Americans politicians believe their rates changed because they targeted minorities (stop and frisk, three strikes, War on Drugs, broken windows, law and order policies) which doesn’t explain why the whole world’s crime rate went down. I’ve heard many ALM supporters state that they need more police and that every case of police brutality was deserved because they are criminals (Floyd, Brenna, Michaels, Tavon.)

Also, when was he talking about ‘His area’in this thread? Is there something I should know about his specific circumstance?
 

Specter Von Baren

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Also, look, I've listened to Dan Carlin of Hardcore History for about two whole decades now, and he's done a lot of research into the topics he covers but he's always made it very clear to everyone that he's not a historian, he's always described himself as a fan of history. So to see this guy, who according to Ewok, hasn't even completed his studies, refer to himself as a historian really pisses me off from the get go. Overall, can't say I like his style, If I want oversimplified history videos then I'll just watch Oversimplified, where you're told from the get go that it's not an actual in depth explanation, or I'd watch CGP-Grey who has a much more in depth analysis of specific topics.

That is definitely what multiple administration on both sides of politics implied

Crime rates went down over the whole world over the last few decades. Americans politicians believe their rates changed because they targeted minorities (stop and frisk, three strikes, War on Drugs, broken windows, law and order policies) which doesn’t explain why the whole world’s crime rate went down. I’ve heard many ALM supporters state that they need more police and that every case of police brutality was deserved because they are criminals (Floyd, Brenna, Michaels, Tavon.)

Also, when was he talking about ‘His area’in this thread? Is there something I should know about his specific circumstance?
Dude.... I was just telling you to rephrase your post so you don't sound like a freaking racist!
 

ObsidianJones

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The American Police is just another example of the 'bandaid' approach to dealing with society here. There are no wishes to prevent, to change. But to punish and to frighten.

When I consider the topic of defunding the Police, it isn't a punitive measure. It's a pre-emptive one. More money into education, less but CONSISTENT money into the police. Make them not have to do a certain amount of arrest each year to earn their pay. That's demeaning in and of itself.
 

Trunkage

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Dude.... I was just telling you to rephrase your post so you don't sound like a freaking racist!
I was just pointing out the status quo of America culture. Abhorrent, isn’t it.

As I’ve stated previously, I’ve been fascinated by what people think isn’t racist since BLM has resurfaced
 
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Terminal Blue

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It seems like you're saying that there's so little crime in his area because minorities are being specifically targeted.
Doesn't that imply that minorities are criminals that make areas unsafe?
I think this is what Specter is getting at.
This is a good example of what is wrong with the political right.

Crime statistics and reporting is very complex, and it's difficult to tell to what extent crime statistics are influenced by overpolicing and overeporting, but it's fairly undeniable that some minorities do commit crimes at a higher rate than others. The question is why.

Most people, for example, even if they don't sympathise with criminals, understand that crime is often created or influenced by conditions of material deprivation, such as, for example, the systemic intergenerational poverty and low achievement deliberately imposed upon black communities through redlining and other forms of prejudice. If a community is more likely to end up in desperate poverty, or more likely to end up with limited educational prospects or more likely to struggle finding a job, then that community will probably suffer from crime. Most of that crime will likely result directly from people seeking to profit from that poverty and desperation.

Most people are able to understand, on some level, that harsh policing doesn't really lower crime. In fact, it raises crime statistics (because it turns out when you police a community more harshly you will discover more "crime"). Granted, a lot of people don't care because they see the justice system as punitive rather than transformative, and see the goal of policing as that of punishing or suppressing people who are bad, but the basic facts are fairly obvious. The real way to lower crime statistics is to ameliorate the causal factors of most crime, which is poverty, desperation and a lack of social bonds. Even most conservatives, on some level, understand in their own communitarian, "family values" fashion that crime is a product of these circumstances. They just think it needs to be fixed with Christianity and getting rid of that scary rap music rather than, you know, welfare.

But a lot of conservatives are also extremely authoritarian, and are extremely invested in the idea that the hierarchical society in which the live is just, meritocratic and the only possible social arrangement, and for those conservatives, the reason certain minorities commit crime more is because they're bad. They have the bad genes and it makes them do crime. Nothing to do with poverty, or desperation, or a lack of social integration, or low expectations, or untreated mental health and addiction crises in these populations. They had the same opportunities as everyone else, but they did crime because they are bad and its in their nature.

Obviously, I don't have to point out the implications of what this actually means when we're talking about ethnic minorities. You figure that one out yourself.

There's a pretty famous Nazi propaganda film called The Eternal Jew. Surprisingly, it includes a lot of footage shot in the ghettos of occupied Poland and showing the horrible conditions therein, which you'd think would be very counter-productive towards preparing the German public for genocide. However, the film presents these horrible conditions as the natural condition in which Jews lived. The fact that people are starving and desperate is not presented as the fault of the regime which put them in ghettos, but as proof of the fact that Jews could not form a functioning society, that they were naturally dirty and squalid people. In short, the Nazi regime created conditions of horrible deprivation, then claimed that those conditions were evidence of inherent racial differences which ultimately justified genocide.

Pointing out that a community has problems is not racist (I guess it could be, but not usually). Blaming some inherent racial quality for creating those problems is very, very racist.
 
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