How to deal with people who are just plain stupid

[Drizzitdude]

Title.

But no really, how do you deal with people who are moronic, ignorant, stupid and the like? I constantly find myself surrounded by idiots spouting drivel about things they know absolutely nothing about like it is a fact. These are people who never think they have to prove anything, never have to feel like they should site their sources yet always back their opinion in complete disregard to any evidence brought up before them on the issue. Seeing as this is a gaming focused site lets use games as an example of recent discussions.

*Earlier this week three people were arguing over warhammer 40k lore: One saying that all space marines can die of old age, tau can obviously be psykers and grey knights are vulnerable to corruption and other such shit. The two other individuals bringing up every single piece of evidence imaginable to prove this person wrong before I got involved and yet it didn't even phase them at all. Not once could this person back up their claim, not once did they acknowledge the other persons evidence as solid.

"the wiki can be edited"
"The lexicanum isn't always right"
"I totally read the codex and there have been blood angels who died of old age" (not true)
"Anyone in warhammer can be a psyker the tau even have psyker units in the tabletop" (100% not true)

By the time this conversation ended everyone was pissed, and we couldn't just get distracted or ignore it because someone would post a link or something and get everyone going again and the absolute worst part is this happens ALL THE TIME, even when I am not involved I still have to listen to it. Does anyone else have the deal with this kind of thing constantly? How do you stop yourself from getting involved or infuriated?

 

[Elfgore]

... I wouldn't say those people are stupid. Just very stubborn. A friend and I always go at it over the stupidest things. He's denies evidence for an argument just so he can be right, I've done it several times as well. Take it from one of those stubborn people, we hate being wrong and get very aggressive when cornered.

But to help you, I frequent facebook frequently and a good many of my friends are idiots. They spout total nonsense 90% of the time. My advice is to just ignore them and leave. I'm not sure if this is online chat or IRL, but either log out or walk away and calm yourself. Wait until the argument is over before going back.

 

[Drizzitdude]

... I wouldn't say those people are stupid. Just very stubborn. A friend and I always go at it over the stupidest things. He's denies evidence for an argument just so he can be right, I've done it several times as well. Take it from one of those stubborn people, we hate being wrong and get very aggressive when cornered.

But to help you, I frequent facebook frequently and a good many of my friends are idiots. They spout total nonsense 90% of the time. My advice is to just ignore them and leave. I'm not sure if this is online chat or IRL, but either log out or walk away and calm yourself. Wait until the argument is over before going back.

Both essentially, if I am at a social event or out with friends I can't exactly just walk away frustrated, and online I always feel like leaving is letting the person in question win despite not having done anything, especially if they give you shit over leaving the argument later. It is just so completely frustrating to have someone be unable to say "sorry" or "okay your right" when presented with infallible evidence that goes against their claim. That would be all it took for the entire thing to just be dropped and everyone to let it go and move on.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Walking away is a nice, healthy option.

 

[dyre]

You need to stop caring so much. That's seriously the solution.

I used to get frustrated whenever people said ignorant things around me, especially on subjects I'm actually rather well-versed in, but then I figured, "why should I care? There are millions of stupid conversations going on in the world...this one just happens to be going on in my vicinity." If you can't walk away, just ignore it.

If you feel that it's absolutely necessary to engage yourself in such an argument, then make sure you keep sight of the whole picture. Too many arguments become a jumbled mess of back and forths that end up being totally irrelevant to the original claim. Make sure you map out the opponents claims as well as your own, so when he starts repeating stuff or building on claims that you've already defeated, you can point out "you made that claim already; I countered it with this argument. What is your response?" or "that argument is irrelevant to your central thesis; here's why." That way you don't end up going in an endless circle. Furthermore, you'll sound smart and organized, and the best way to win arguments is to seem like you know what you're doing.

 

[Elfgore]

snip

For a stubborn person, saying "you're right" is like saying "feel free to have my firstborn child." We hate being wrong, we rarely admit to being wrong, and we will fight to the bitter end. That's all it comes down to. We stubborns also enjoy taunting others with our victories as well. I know none of this is acceptable behavior, it's just how we operate. We also just enjoy arguing for the sake of it.

I would say going by your feeling of letting them win by walking away, you have some stubborn in you as well. Only not as severe as others have it.

 

[Zontar]

Walking away is a nice, healthy option.

Pretty much this. I remember my first year in collage there was this guy who was an absolute idiot, to the point where people in the club areas use his name in lieu of idiot. Guy thought I was one of his friends for some reason (I still don't see how he got that impression, though he did repeatedly show an inability to read the atmosphere or facial expressions) but thankfully he had other "closer" friends always within arms length from me. After the first semester he went on academic probation for failing all his courses, and in a move which surprised all of us even for him he didn't even try to pass second semester. I don't see him that often, and when I do I avoid eye contact. From what I hear he's trying to join the army now (and that got a laugh out of us).

 

[Artina89]

Most of the time it is just the best option to walk away and ignore it. It has been mentioned before in this thread: people hate being wrong and tend to argue their point to the ends of time even if they have been proven wrong. It is a lot less frustrating and time consuming if you try not to let it bother you.

 

[Malbourne]

I'd say walk away in most situations, since attempting to convince somebody who is determined not to be convinced tends to be an exercise in futility. BUT, it can be pretty insightful to have an argument with somebody for an hour or two. Even when they're 100% wrong and you know it, it provides clarity.

I was arguing with one of my friends recently about visual novels. Quoth he, "They're all text," to which I replied, "No they're not." We learned a lot about each other and the medium as a whole. I wanted to say, "You're wrong," and I did (several times). But even if I didn't convince him that he was wrong, I still learned a lot about how much I liked visual novels and it reminded me about what aspects about them I enjoy, like the dialogue and character interaction.

 

[Caiphus]

As one of these fabled stupid people, we have feelings just like you. Understand that we don't do it just to annoy you. Our stupidity may be a product of our circumstances, upbringing, low self-esteem or any other sense of insecurity brought about by the slow realisation that we are but a tiny, short-lived, inconsequential fragment of the miasmic, bickering, ruthless human race which is itself an insignificant inhabitant of our incomprehensibly cold, vast and unsympathetic Universe.

And if, after all that, we still piss you off, I dunno. Flip the table and walk out or something.

 

[Thaluikhain]

*Earlier this week three people were arguing over warhammer 40k lore: One saying that all space marines can die of old age, tau can obviously be psykers and grey knights are vulnerable to corruption and other such shit.

I hate (may not really hate) to be that person, but two of those aren't wrong.

Space marines "can" die of old age, they just tend to die of "eated by monster" first. Very rare space marine that gets to live anywhere near that old. Unless you mean there's one type of Space Marine that doesn't die of old age and it's just the "normal" ones that do.

Secondly, Grey Knights are vulnerable to corruption. It's just that there has been no (known) Grey Knights that have succumbed yet.

In the novel Grey Knights, for example, there is a GK Space Marine who has gotten too old and feeble to fight, and will stay on Titan until he dies doing other work. There's also talk of corrupting GKs, and one of them is afraid that he'll be the first this happens to.

Blood Angels are specifically stated to have a higher lifespan than other marines, possibly because of the Red Thirst, which is why Dante has reached over a thousand. Not unlimited lifespan, notably longer than usual.

...

Having said that, 40k fluff is all over the place. Wouldn't be surprised if there were Tau psykers mentioned by someone like Goto or Ward somewhere.

 

[UniversalRonin]

Us IT professionals frequently ask ourselves and each other this same question.
The answer, with patience, nodding, umm'ing, ahh'ing, fixing their problem, training them at their level, and walking away.

In a case where there isn't a problem and nothing to fix or train (like your current one) I generally choose to live and let live. I don't care about issue X, thus I can ignore the ensuing flamewar. Theoretical situation Y is something I have an educated opinion about, but party 2 doesn't want to be educated, thus I can ignore the ensuing flamewar. I have a stake in the outcome of discussion Z with unreasonable party 1138, wait, perhaps it's me being unyielding and I need to step back and wonder if they know something I don't.

Anwyay, getting back on point, the best way to learn how to deal with stupid people is to work in IT.

Capcha: 'One fell swoop' .... Clever girl...

 

[HardkorSB]

the wiki...
The lexicanum...
the codex...

When you need to read so much stuff to be able to play a game, chances are some people are going to get things wrong, stupid or not.

I hate (may not really hate) to be that person, but two of those aren't wrong.

[stuff about 40k]

See, now someone is saying that you're wrong.
Does that make you stupid?

 

[Smooth Operator]

Ignorance for sure but not really stupidity in that case, some people will create their own truth just to be part of an argument and the only way to stick with it is to then defend their standpoint no matter how obscene.
Anyone who has been in a debate team/club also knows very well how to chase around an argument to infinity without ever discussing the topic.

What to do with these people... well you are either up for some word games or not, if not you just leave them be.

 

[lionsprey]

if someone is blatantly ignoring contradicting evidence to their statement you should consider them a non factor and stop engaging them since there is no way to change their mind

but surely space marines can die of old age? it's just that they generally don't, since they don't (to my knowledge) retire

 

[Thaluikhain]

but surely space marines can die of old age? it's just that they generally don't, since they don't (to my knowledge) retire

There is some fluff which says that, in the earliest days of the Crusade, when marines had only been around for 100 years or so, none of the original space marines ever died of old age, instead of usually having a lifespan or 3-4 centuries like they do nowdays.

 

[Willstown]

Arguing lore over something that has been ret-conned multiple times and has a massive history and catalog of canon and non-canon is going to get messy.

And if this discussion is taking place on the internet, no chance.

 

[Strazdas]

At first i try to explain then where they are wrong and help them find the truth. If that fails i usually tend to ignore such people (or as been mentioned, walk away). I am usually a very patient person when it comes to such things and can just shrug off a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon. Helps a lot when you try to duscuss things in forums visited by people not as bright as escapists.

 

[Shymer]

Title. But no really, how do you deal with people who are moronic, ignorant, stupid and the like?

Every human being prefers being right to being wrong. Different people might feel this with more or less intensity depending on their personality. I have found that technical/analytical/scientific people (and gamers) display this characteristic with more intensity than people from other backgrounds.

This is not to say they are stupid. But people can get entrenched in a belief of their correctness that is difficult to shake - even with evidence to the contrary. Comfirmation bias and all that.

How do you deal with it? Listening, tolerance and perspective. If two people both have this need to be right, but disagree or have opposing views, then that is a recipe for anger and mutual resentment. Listening falls by the wayside and people slide into insult and denegration.

I'm sure you'll be fine.