How to fight a Jedi

death525

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Hello every one. I am about to play in a Star Wars d20 campaign that takes place right before the events of Knights of the Old Republic. Now, I do not want to play a jedi however I still have to be able to stand toe to toe with them. So here is my question...
How do you fight a jedi without using the force or a lightsaber?
Now this can include tactics, skills, weaponry, etc.
One of the items I found was sonic weaponry since they cannot be deflected by lightsabers.
Also bonus question! How do you get around force powers such as force push and mind control?
 

webkilla

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1) Are there weapons which can parry a lightsaber? If so, get one. That'll make things fairly equal in a melee, outside of power use.

2) gas grenades and smoke grenades? mainly to allow you to sneak up on the jedi while in combat, make sure to have a gasmask in case they lob it back at you (for cheesiest effect - stick the gas grenades to you as you charge the jedi... while you wear a gasmask)

3) grappling hooks and such, in case you get thrown around or off a cliff. Make sure its the sort you can just shoot into a wall, not requiring something to hook around.


Maybe some kind of shotgun round with crowd-control expanding foam pellets that can mess up how much a jedi can move?
 

dyre

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As these are questions pertaining to a specific RPG system rather than just "common sense," you may be better suited asking this on a more specialized site.

I don't think jedi can deflect flamethrowers, right? Or maybe a grenade launcher? If all else fails, use a vibroblade, lol
 

Supernova1138

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For weapons, don't use blasters of course unless you have a massive numerical advantage, can surround the Jedi, and don't mind losing some men in the process. Explosives, gas, slug throwers (eg. some good old fashioned guns), and sonic weapons are more effective as a Jedi can't deflect those as easily. Melee weapons won't likely work unless they contain a lightsaber resistant material such as Cortosis, Phrik, or Mandalorian Iron. Also going toe to toe in a lightsaber fight is a good way to get killed unless said character is some sort of master or melee combat and has a lightsaber resistant weapon. Cortosis can sometimes short out a lightsaber, but this has not been applied consistently within the lore, partially because it would break the game in the case of the KotOR and Jedi Knight 2 video games. Most lightsabers also don't work underwater, so drawing a Jedi into an aquatic battle may work if they haven't modified their lightsaber for aquatic use.

As for countering their Force abilities, there really isn't a way to do it in your particular timeframe without another Force user. Ysalamiri are slug like creatures from the planet Myrkr, and they do project a bubble around them in which the Force does not exist. Individual Ysalamiri can project this bubble in about a 3 meter radius if I recall correctly, and multiple creatures can stack this effect to cover a larger area. Ysalamiri are very hard to transport and keep alive outside of their home environment though. Myrkr wasn't discovered until around the time of the Original Trilogy, and the first known use of those creatures to negate a Force user in canon was when Grand Admiral Demetrius Zaarin and Arden Lyn briefly abducted the Emperor in 4 ABY, so that wouldn't work for your campaign idea unless you want to move to another era.
 

OneCatch

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In KOTOR, sticky and Cryoban grenades were stupidly effective because they immobilise (which stopped Guardians from leaping around like demented frogs and stopped Consulars crowd controlling). And KOTOR was based on d20, right? Depending on how close the mechanics are, similar tactics might work.
In-universe, look at anything the Mandalorians used (especially as your campaign is set during or just after the Mandalorian Wars) - they were very good at killing Jedi.
Flamethrowers, large quantities of explosives, fully automatic blasters, projectile 'slugthrowers' rather than blasters, etc.
Edit; also sonic weapons.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Wouldn't your best bet be to rewatch the bit in Revenge of the Sith where EVERY JEDI IS MURDERED?
 

Nigh Invulnerable

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In Star Wars d20, I would recommend picking up explosives/gas grenades, non-energy projectiles, etc. Additionally, if you're playing by the basic rules, focus on Critical Hits, as they go straight to Wound Points instead of Vitality. A single blaster shot does 3d6 damage to Vitality or Wounds (if a crit is scored) which can quite easily kill, or at least horrendously incapacitate even high level Jedi. True, they may have deflection capabilities, but doing so eats up a lot of their actions for the next round, while all you did was spend a regular attack action on it. If nothing else, blasters cause Jedi to waste their attacks blocking you, which means it gives allies a chance to get the Jedi out of commission.
 

Jamash

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Throw a bucket of water or water-balloons at them.

If the Jedi parries with their Lightsaber, the water would become superheated by the Lightsaber and engulf the Jedi in scalding steam, or even a sheet of flame from the Hydrogen and Oxygen separating and then combusting (depending on how hot a Lightsaber is).

I'm not sure if water-balloons, Supersoakers and buckets exist in the game rules that you're playing, but any device that can direct water at the Lightsaber the Jedi is wielding will result in some serious burns for them.

Maybe some kind of weapon that fires ice projectiles... or even snowballs, or a riot control water-cannon.

Even if the Jedi can use the force to direct the water/steam/fire away from them, you'd still force them into a defensive position by using their weapons against them and force them to defend rather than attack.

At the very least, the water would make the Lightsaber short-out, robbing the Jedi of their weapon.
 

Terminal Blue

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death525 said:
How do you fight a jedi without using the force or a lightsaber?
Now this can include tactics, skills, weaponry, etc.
One of the items I found was sonic weaponry since they cannot be deflected by lightsabers.
Also bonus question! How do you get around force powers such as force push and mind control?
The game is already balanced, so you don't need to worry about it.

Level 1 Jedi characters are brand new padawan learners who have just been apprenticed to a master. Meanwhile, a level 1 soldier is already an exceptional soldier simply by virtue of having heroic classes.

At level 7, your Jedi characters are no longer padawans and have just receive their knighthoods. Meawhile, your soldier is equivallent to an elite special forces operative.

At level 13, your Jedi characters are eligible to consider themselves Jedi masters. Meanwhile, your soldier is a one man army who can literally turn the tide of whole battles.


Sure, the force can give you access to powerful combat buffs, but they cost vitality points to use and take away from conventional skills/feats/class abilities.

Finally, lightsaber effectiveness is strongly tied to the experience of the Jedi using it. In the hands of a level 1 padawan, it's just an inferior short-range blaster rifle. It only becomes equal to said blaster rifle once the Jedi reaches level 5-6, and only surpasses it at level 10-12. By that point, however, your blaster rifle using soldier is likely to have all sorts of neat toys and feats to compensate.

That said.. actual advice.

* Look to your saving throws. Almost all offensive force powers grant a saving throw to reduce/ignore the effect, so good luck force striking a high level Scoundrel with the lightning reflex feat, for example, or using Jedi mind trick on a Noble with Iron Will.[footnote]I'm assuming revised edition here. I don't have the Saga edition and I've never played it, but I'm assuming even there there will be similar mechanics.[/footnote]

* Grenades can't be deflected. They usually allow a saving throw but often the effect is still pretty bad. A stun grenade, for example, still stuns its target on a successful fortitude save, which means they lose their dexterity bonus to defence (and, crucially, their deflect bonus) and are very easy to hit next round. True, stun grenades are expensive, but although there are no hard rules penalizing Jedi for looting, from a roleplaying standpoint you should certainly be getting more money (professional skills also provide a mechanical way to make money which strongly favours non-Jedi characters.. Jedi isn't a profession, mercenary or smuggler is). Finally, a noble's resource access ability, as the name suggests, is particularly useful in getting hold of things.

* Jedi don't get their deflect abilities when flat footed. Stealthy characters, or characters with very high initiative, can exploit this to some degree.

* Lightsabers can't be used while grappled (they are medium sized weapons). The improved grapple feat (it's in the Heroes Guide) is pretty devastating against lightsaber users. It requires at least level 4 though (BAB +4), but again, a level 4 Jedi hasn't even graduated from Jedi school.

Also, just bear in mind that not every character needs to be there to kill stuff. Sure, the Noble isn't going to be killing many Jedi guardians single handed, but he/she wouldn't kill many soldiers either. Different characters have different functions in the group, and not everyone needs to be the guy who takes the enemy down in combat. That said, even in combat, characters like nobles and scoundrels can contribute in other ways (by using their skills or class abilities, like the noble's "inspire confidence").
 

Mersadeon

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While I don't know the rules of that system, I'll try to give some logical advice.

Use flamethrowers. Can't deflect that or push it back.
In the same vein: use grenades. Use area of effect. Everything they can't throw back at you.
Use old school bullets in your gun - in some systems, those can't be parried.
Use stealth. Sure, they might detect you - but at least getting a better position can make everything.
If all else fails, throw LOTS of projectiles at them - contrary to what some of the movies and games try to tell you, they can't block 100% of everything.
Nets might be good? Don't know how the system handles them, but getting out of a net would be hell as a jedi. Sure you've got an all-cutting lightsaber, but the net tangles around you and you might even hurt yourself on your sword.
Really, just be Boba Fett.
 

Zack Alklazaris

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death525 said:
Hello every one. I am about to play in a Star Wars d20 campaign that takes place right before the events of Knights of the Old Republic. Now, I do not want to play a jedi however I still have to be able to stand toe to toe with them. So here is my question...
How do you fight a jedi without using the force or a lightsaber?
Now this can include tactics, skills, weaponry, etc.
One of the items I found was sonic weaponry since they cannot be deflected by lightsabers.
Also bonus question! How do you get around force powers such as force push and mind control?
Not exactly sure unless you are force capable. I know KoToR had vibroblades that could go up against a lightsaber. If not just keep your distance and pray they can't shoot lightning. Hug around corners to break the Jedis line of sight when they are about to use force powers and never let them get too close. If its an RPG style game place your points into defensive abilities and agility. Mind control... perhaps investing in a wisdom like perk?

The only other way I can think of is to create a glass cannon and then take them out before they have the time to react.

Flamethrowers are good, but they are cumbersome and offer no blocking from attacks.
 

Trivun

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I love how everyone has ignored the most obvious answer. Sniper rifle, at least a kilometre away. Get up on a high rooftop or apartment window on Coruscant overlooking the Jedi Temple, make sure you're a decent distance away, and make sure you're perfectly lined up for the shot (any required adjustments to your aim need to be spot on). If you only need to kill the one Jedi there's no better way, since they're not likely to be monitoring their surroundings at all hours of the day to make sure the Force lets them know within half a second that there's a sniper bullet in mid-air heading towards them...
 

Terminal Blue

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Trivun said:
I love how everyone has ignored the most obvious answer. Sniper rifle, at least a kilometre away. Get up on a high rooftop or apartment window on Coruscant overlooking the Jedi Temple, make sure you're a decent distance away, and make sure you're perfectly lined up for the shot (any required adjustments to your aim need to be spot on). If you only need to kill the one Jedi there's no better way, since they're not likely to be monitoring their surroundings at all hours of the day to make sure the Force lets them know within half a second that there's a sniper bullet in mid-air heading towards them...
Actually, at least going by the rules of the game, that would be far less of a problem that you'd think!

Remember, the force is different from the "occult" stuff in many science fiction settings in that (aside from certain references to symbiotic algae which shall not be mentioned) it's just straight up mystical. It's less like being in the X-men than having God constantly whispering stuff in your ear.

So it could well be that while your sniper is zeroing in on his target your Jedi just goes "hmm.. well, I have a bad feeling about this!" activates his/her lightsaber and deflects the shot purely by instinct by knowing subconsciously that it was going to happen before it happened (and yes, going by the rules of the game Jedi can deflect physical bullets, although they can't redirect them to hit other people).

There's also the issue that the game is explicitly dramatic rather than realistic. While a single bullet is often enough to dispatch a regular person, important people basically have a mechanical version of plot armour which means that the first few bullets will always just miss them or cause flesh wounds or something, and Jedi are always important people. :p

While stealth is certainly a powerful weapon against Jedi (or anyone!) in game terms it's more useful in the sense of "I'll sneak round and shoot that guy in the back while he's distracted fighting my friend!" rather than "I'll set an extremely elaborate ambush when mr. Jedi doesn't suspect anything!"