How to get more women working in the games industry?

Not Matt

Senior Member
Nov 3, 2011
555
0
21
it's not the damn quote that i am talking about it is you saying man should be fired and refused to have a job. that company was wrong to deny him that job. but the fact that women are in charge i have no problem with as long as it don't cost anybody their jobs like you said. and the fact that it already is in motion i know. heck. my own mother is on the board at her company. she thought me about it way before i even came to the escapist

and when you say respect can be legislated i dare you to prove it. respect comes from people not law.



Dexter111 said:
Might as well do it across the board and get rid of all the useless males.
it is kind of offensive that you think men should not be able to be in charge
 

Palademon

New member
Mar 20, 2010
4,167
0
0
IndomitableSam said:
Edit: I haven't been typing well at all lately... don't know why. Apologies for lots of typos.

Honestly - in 10-15 years there will be a lot mre women working in games. Girls growing up in the 80's to early 2000's were still (generally) not supported in tech.

My own story?

My cousin created and owned a pretty well-known Canadian visual effects company. He hired his brother on (who is my age) at about 16 to learn coding and programming - he knew as much if not less than my sister and I at the time (we'd built websites and such, same as my cousin). My sister and I asked if we could try it, too. Didn't even expect jobs - just to try it and see. We were refused. We asked if we could intern there, basically, and were refused. THe only women who worked there were admin staff, and later on when they went into TV production, women were hired on in more capacity... but not in the beginning.

In high school we took computer science - except we were the only girls in the class. (This was lke 12-13 years ago, so I may be forgetting things) And our teacher refused to help us with our programming. For our final assignment we had to create a baseball field and have players run the bases - properly. I could get my players to second base, but then they all stuck there and wouldn't go further, no matter what I tried. I called the teacher over to have him look at it and try and help me out. He sat down, looked at my coding, said "wow, you really messed this up," got up, and walked away to help the guys finish their assignments.

Really. Not lying.

Also, in the late 90's in middle school, you get to choose between home economics, sewing class, woodship and electric/metalworking. My sister tried to take the latter two, but was told that no, she had to take home ec and sewing. By the principal. Who was a woman. In the 90's. In Canada.

... Things will change. Girls growing up not aren'tblocked as much - they will go into programming and coding and game design because ti's a more welcoming atmosphere... but until recentley... it hasn't beenn. And it will still be a long time before it doesn't feel like a boy's club.
That's awful. My mum is 60 and in her school the playground was even divided by gender, simply because they thought they wouldn't want to play together, but when they were shocked to find out she wanted to take things like maths and science, they allowed it without any problems I heard of. They even had to change everyone's schedule just because tey didn't expect a girl to take those subjects. Before she was made redundant she had worked many years as a systems analyst and programmer.
 

jetriot

New member
Sep 9, 2011
174
0
0
OpticalJunction said:
I'm a woman and I would LOVE to work in the games industry. However, the thought of working alongside mostly males is a little intimidating, I have to admit. I don't know anyone who could introduce me to the industry, so there's that, too.
I am a teacher that works with mostly females. It really isn't as hard as you think. The things that interest you as individuals are greater dividers than the experiences you have had as those of a different gender. That means, that as people passionate about gaming you are likely to have more in common with those men than with a group of workers that are mostly women in another field.
 

Not Matt

Senior Member
Nov 3, 2011
555
0
21
Boris Goodenough said:
Matt S Hoimyr said:
it is kind of offensive that you think men should not be able to be in charge
I might be going out on a limb here but I think he was being ironic.


............................................f***. you might be right. been overworked all week. i am in the kind of mood that most people are right before they snap. thank god it's saturday soon
 

Zombiefish

New member
Sep 29, 2012
58
0
0
I really wanted to program video games, but had 0 knowledge on the topic or how to even begin going about it.

In college I took a computer programming course but found it ridiculously advanced. The teacher assumed that we all had basic knowledge and in our spare time wrote simple programs. The first class we were given software and told to go off and program a calculator. I had no idea and sat there confused.

After trying for 3 weeks to catch up by reading books, and falling further behind as the teacher rushed through several topics such as binary, I gave it up as a bad job.

I think the issue (as least in the UK) is the structure of teaching. Its very male oriented. Teachers Ive found to be uncharismatic and the courses too advanced. There is a great need for simple basic courses that teach you the beginning of programming and modelling.
 

MiriaJiyuu

Forum Lurker
Jun 28, 2011
177
0
0
Studied game development... in a class of 150 there were 5 girls. There's no sexism, just a lack of interest.
 

CrazyCapnMorgan

Is not insane, just crazy >:)
Jan 5, 2011
2,742
0
0
For one, perhaps if the "men" who play games and support the industry by giving their money to relevant gaming companies stopped treating games like it was a fucking religion, then maybe more women might be interested in supporting the industry, as well.

For two, this...

Dire Sloth said:
Maybe there's just not that many women looking to get into the gaming industry. Simple as that.
...right here.

For three, this...

OpticalJunction said:
I'm a woman and I would LOVE to work in the games industry. However, the thought of working alongside mostly males is a little intimidating, I have to admit. I don't know anyone who could introduce me to the industry, so there's that, too.
...right here, as well. Amongst those who ARE interested, there is the possibility (or the mindset) that they might believe it could be overwhelming for them. Positive feedback and/or guidance to help these women attain such goals is a good start. Like 'em so.

*gets to typing*
 

Dahni

Lemon Meringue Tie
Aug 18, 2009
922
0
0
I don't view this as a necessarily sexist thing. If women don't want to work in the industry, they won't do so. Games development is something I think requires an interest in games to begin with plus a specific skill set. It'd be unfair to everyone to try and encourage women to work in it. Women who play games know there's job opportunities there, so if they WANT to, they will. There's less of a sexism barrier to games development. Girls are less likely to study "male" sciences like physics because in school, they get picked on for it (I was called a lesbian among other things purely because of my interest in physics but this attitude has disappeared now that I'm in university). Girls with a solid interest in physics and the ability to ignore comments like that can push through that but it's not many. Girls at the sort of age where you get to choose your subjects are also starting puberty so emotions are erratic and self-confidence hits an all-time low for most girls, so getting bullied over your choice of subject isn't something most will willingly put themselves through. Games development, however, tends to be a university level subject with virtually no schools offering it specifically as part of their curriculum (at least in Scotland), so straight off the barrier is lifted, if not eradicated because you enter that course pretty much as an adult. Computing classes in my school were always fairly equal and that taught basic programming and I experienced no sexism in those classes. I've found people with a passion for games, especially at the age of 18 or so, to be some of the least sexist people I know, hence why I believe it's somewhat less scary to do games development as a woman if you want to.

Anyone who plays games knows that there's a massive industry that obviously requires employees to make it happen. Every woman with an interest in games knows this. It just so happens that these women have other interests, so to try and shoehorn them into a job they don't want to do is unfair on the woman, on the developers themselves (the employee you just pushed into a job she didn't want to do will not be passionate about it), and ultimately the people who buy games, because if the developers aren't passionate about the game, it's more likely to be shitty.

Plus, all attempts I've seen at advertising certain professions to women have been laughable. There was one for science that centered around make-up and fashion which I found to be downright sexist because it played on the perceived "interests" of women. I don't think a games development one could possibly be any better than that pile of crap.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

New member
Aug 22, 2011
1,660
0
0
EmphaFish said:
To all of you people who think I just want to have women in there just to have women, again, I don't. I couldn't care less about what they look like or what's their gender. But I'm in two minds, I couldn't care less mind and I think they could make things better mind.
So, we weren't talking about the same thing, then?

OK, if it's just some sort of pre-sleep 'what if?' moment, then I think I get your gist and I think I agree.

When I get up in the morning, though, weird dreams or not, I really think I only know about one-and-a-half women I could imagine working in the games industry as creative minds/writers/programmers - solely due to their qualifications, mind you. They are absolutely not interested in the gaming (sub)culture.

I myself am interested in games as a mere end-user, and while I have already contributed some pen-and-paper and some pixelated artwork myself, I can't exactly imagine throwing myself into this industry. Utmost respect to anyone that does.
 

ExtraDebit

New member
Jul 16, 2011
533
0
0
Why does one cares about where a woman wants to work? It's their choice and freedom, getting more women working in the gaming industry wouldn't improve their lives or gaming gaming.

However there are already alot of women in gaming, Roberta Williams (king's quest, Sierra online). Jane Jensen (Gabriel Knight) just outta the top of my head.

There are a lot even in the current market that worked on some high profile games like halo and assassin's creed. Sure there are more males than female, but I must refer to an article right on the escapist pertaining to analytically and emotional aspect of humans, females are just more emotional, programming and game designs just need more analytic mind set.
 

alphamalet

New member
Nov 29, 2011
544
0
0
Dear god, another one of these self-righteous threads. I'm going to make this short and sweet.

I am at a university right now, studying game design. I can count the number of women in the classes I take on one hand. Apparently the department has tried to get women more interested in the program, and god know we would like to have more women in the program, but they get the same result each time. A general lack of interest. I don't think it's a problem with men, it just doesn't seem that women have as much of an interest. It's as simple as that. There is nothing sexist or discriminatory about it at all.

If you're a woman, come study and contribute to game design if you have the interest. The general consensus among the group of people I work with is that we would like a female's point of view.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
0
0
IndomitableSam said:
Also, in the late 90's in middle school, you get to choose between home economics, sewing class, woodship and electric/metalworking. My sister tried to take the latter two, but was told that no, she had to take home ec and sewing. By the principal. Who was a woman. In the 90's. In Canada.
That's kind of weird, since I was in Middle School in America in the early 90s and they mandated everyone take at least one "home ec" style class and "tech ed," which was basically shop. We also had like four girls on the football team, one of which was a starter and certified badass. And Our computer labs were more male than female, but it was far closer to 60/40, so.

It's weird. I'm used to being progressive for America, but not for Canadia.

OT: There will likely be more women in gaming sooner rather than later simply because gaming is appealing to more women than before. There's always a lag, though. It's also a bit awkward because you're more likely to get appeal with games that aren't deemed as exclusionary, and often to get that, you need something outside the current norm, and to get that, you likely need to appeal with games that aren't deemed as exclusionary....
 

Bad Jim

New member
Nov 1, 2010
1,763
0
0
A little over a decade ago I was unemployed. In the UK at that time, if you were unemployed for more than about 6 months they put you on a course which basically amounted to making you work on conservation related projects for about 20 hours a week for an extra ten quid.

One of the remarkable things was that there were no women. Someone asked our supervisor about this and he said he had only ever seen one girl on the course. This being the case, I really doubt that there is a general endemic problem of women getting discriminated against when they apply for jobs. They're definitely getting employment somewhere.

It would be nice I guess for someone to set up an all female dev team to see what they could do. Ironically though, it would run afoul of gender discrimination laws.
 

Chemical Alia

New member
Feb 1, 2011
1,658
0
0
Dr. Doomsduck said:
I think that you'd have to start with education, like, give art or literature students a few courses in game design or story development on that level, so that the women there will come into contact with the gaming industry without having to apply specifically for a complete college-grade in it. Those who are then intrigued will probably have a less biased image of gaming and might apply for those jobs more.

Though I don't think it's necessary to specifically aim for women in the gaming industry, but rather a more diverse crew in different areas of expertise. If we can integrate art, literature, physics, biology or whatnot into different games, they'd become broader platform which might interest a larger audience. Leading to a decrease of 'games are for 14 year old boys'.

That would be good...
So much agreed with this. I want to see people with more varied backgrounds, both women and men, getting into game development. It is a pretty homogenous crowd right now, in that the industry could really benefit from some creative perspectives outside of "complete nerdiness".
 

Seagoon

New member
Feb 14, 2010
411
0
0
Daystar Clarion said:
The only solution is to offer ponies wrapped in pink ribbons and feminine hygiene products as an incentive to get women to work in the industry.

That's what girls want, right?
And don't forget Barbie Dolls. Lots and lots of Barbie Dolls.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
0
0
matthew_lane said:
No there won't. Thats the equiviliant of saying "there are sure to be more male porn stars then female porn stars soon, simply because porn appeals to more men then ever before.
Holy bad analogy, Batman! The fly in the ointment there is that the production of porn for males requires a large body (no pun intended) of women in the business. There is no equivalence in gaming, as female interest is not contingent on male presence.

Enjoying consuming a thing is not the same thing as enjoying creating the thing you enjoy consuming.
Yes, which would be great if I was saying every woman who plays games would become a games developer. I'm not, and that's not even true for males.

An considering the steep learning curve involved, the amount of women in comparission to men in technical fields within software creation is unlikely to shift dramatically.
Why, because wimmins don't like to learn? Because I'm not seeing the logical progression here.

A decade passess, LULU & kindle book self publishing becomes a thing & still men make up the majority of writers...
[citation needed]

Same holds true here: Women are predominately not interested in the technical fields & software creation is such a field.
And cite that, while you're at it. I keep reading about more and more women in technical fields, but if you can prove otherwise, by all means. It really sounds more like you're trying to work backwards from defending a lack of women than coming to a conclusion from testing a hypothesis.
 

Adaephon

New member
Jun 15, 2009
126
0
0
IndomitableSam said:
Also, in the late 90's in middle school, you get to choose between home economics, sewing class, woodship and electric/metalworking. My sister tried to take the latter two, but was told that no, she had to take home ec and sewing. By the principal. Who was a woman. In the 90's. In Canada.
Oh god I've been there..... Same thing too, highschool in Canada in the 90's and I got told that I wasn't allowed to take sewing and I had to take woodshop instead because the principle was worried that as the only guy in the class I'd make everyone else uncomfortable.

On Topic: While it is kinda wrong to try and give women a big leg up into the industry just because there aren't enough women already there, I don't see a problem with just advertising programming/game development jobs with more women in then. it's like how a lot of ads for nurses show a bunch of male nurses, to try and convince people that, no, it's totally cool for you to take this job even if you're the "wrong" gender. Actually, I think someone in another thread a while ago was showing an picture of some ad poster to try and get men into nursing with the tagline "Are you man enough to be a nurse?" and maybe it would be a good idea to try and to something similar if you feel that there need to be more women in game development. Only problem is there isn't really a word meaning female that is also synonomous with a skill needed in game development (and I doubt something like , "Have you got the ovaries to work for Bioware?" will exactly fly with, well, anyone). So yah, like everyone else has been saying, just let nature run its course and women will get into male dominated jobs and vice versa as cultrue progresses, just like it has in the past.