I Am Confused Edition: Sexist for calling someone "stunning"?

[DANEgerous]

Here is my take on it in short. Fuck no. In long, if you and say it to a thing that has no gender it can not be sexist. Example "that tower stunning all my men" this applies *no* gender to said tower. To say stunning is male female or anything is bullshit. Nothing is inherently male or female.

 

[Phasmal]

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

 

[Areloch]

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

All other things aside, I hadn't realized a 'perfectly normal reaction' to getting unwanted compliments was to publicly shame them on the internet.
That seems kind of like an overreaction to me?

Her replying to him and informing him that he was in the wrong? Sure, that's pretty reasonable.
Naming and Shaming them on twitter, which we know to be THE bastion of level-headedness and not at all life-destroying hate-mob foundry? Probably less so.

I'd potentially argue that Naming and Shaming them in a public medium AFTER doing a much more reasonable direct response to them is actually fairly unprofessional. If she felt legitimately wronged, she should be able to get a hold of the company's HR people and inform them of what she felt may have been harassment and they'd look into it.

 

[Phasmal]

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

All other things aside, I hadn't realized a 'perfectly normal reaction' to getting unwanted compliments was to publicly shame them on the internet.
That seems kind of like an overreaction to me?

Her replying to him and informing him that he was in the wrong? Sure, that's pretty reasonable.
Naming and Shaming them on twitter, which we know to be THE bastion of level-headedness and not at all life-destroying hate-mob foundry? Probably less so.

I'd potentially argue that Naming and Shaming them in a public medium AFTER doing a much more reasonable direct response to them is actually fairly unprofessional. If she felt legitimately wronged, she should be able to get a hold of the company's HR people and inform them of what she felt may have been harassment and they'd look into it.

I think the on twitter thing was mostly a response to how inappropriate it was to do such a thing on LinkedIn, but I wasn't necessarily talking about just this incident.

I realise now I didn't make that clear, though. I'm always doing that, my bad.

Captcha: Agree to disagree.

Hah.

 

[Phil the Nervous]

As a point to the mass shaming- it may have been the only way to keep her position as a lawyer.

A high-status well-connected person says you have a nice picture and wants to know how "we might work together". In a social forum it's a compliment and an invitation. In a business-based communications area it's either an extremely ill-timed compliment or a threatening scenario. (it's extremely likely that a sixty-year old hiring manager can wreck someone's career if they are so inclined.

Can she afford to take the chance?

Edit: note that she has received multiple um... catcalls before and hasn't done anything about them. I think this was a legitimate defense.

 

[Areloch]

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

All other things aside, I hadn't realized a 'perfectly normal reaction' to getting unwanted compliments was to publicly shame them on the internet.
That seems kind of like an overreaction to me?

Her replying to him and informing him that he was in the wrong? Sure, that's pretty reasonable.
Naming and Shaming them on twitter, which we know to be THE bastion of level-headedness and not at all life-destroying hate-mob foundry? Probably less so.

I'd potentially argue that Naming and Shaming them in a public medium AFTER doing a much more reasonable direct response to them is actually fairly unprofessional. If she felt legitimately wronged, she should be able to get a hold of the company's HR people and inform them of what she felt may have been harassment and they'd look into it.

I think the on twitter thing was mostly a response to how inappropriate it was to do such a thing on LinkedIn, but I wasn't necessarily talking about just this incident.

I realise now I didn't make that clear, though. I'm always doing that, my bad.

Captcha: Agree to disagree.

Hah.

Ahh, I see.

Yeah, I definitely don't see an issue in telling someone to buzz off if they're being annoying in general. I think her email, while wrong on the 'sexist' point, is a fair response. She felt it was unwarranted and inappropriate, and that the guy shouldn't do that.

Oh Captcha, you so silly. This is the INTERNET. People can't agre-oh, wait, hey

 

[Andy Shandy]

Calling someone stunning might not be sexist on it's own, but a female being judged pretty much solely on her looks in a male-focused field on what is supposed to be a entirely-business orientated website, is a least a little sexist. Diet sexist, not full-fat sexist, but not exactly helpful.

I do love that the big gotcha that the Daily Mail ran was that she complimented male friends on Facebook, like it was anything near the same situation.

 

[TwistednMean]

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

If expecting other people to have social skills is sexist then I'd very much prefer to live in a sexist society, thank you very much. Also if you think bitchy behavior is normal, it does not mean that it's actually normal. Maybe your standards aren't high enough.

But what do I know? I am just a gross and creepy freak who expects other to react to compliments with politeness, whether they are attracted to me or not.

 

[Gorrath]

Her picture isn't up for review and commentary. Her credentials on a professional business site are up for review and commentary. That's literally what this is about.

Remember guys, it's only sexist if she isn't in to you as well.

You joke, but that's literally the corporate definition of sexual harassment. Unwanted advances and sexual comments.

Well, not quite. In order for it to be harassment one must usually show that the unwanted comments and/or advances continued after it has been made clear that they were unwanted. Merely asking a co-worked out on a date does not generally constitute sexual harassment even though it may be an unwanted sexual advance.

Also, while I would agree that Linkedin is not the place to make the comments, simply stating that her picture isn't up for review or commentary ignores the whole purpose of being able to put up photos in the first place. While in this context the type of appraisal of her appearance was unprofessional, there are professional reasons to review and comment on a business photo.

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

I don't know why you say that's sexist. It's not as if men who receive unsolicited compliments on their looks are viewed in any positive light if they turn around and go off on the person giving them the compliment. If someone called me a hottie and I turned around and berated her for it, I have strong doubts that many would say that I was "reacting perfectly normally." It's not as if women are expected to pretend to be flattered where men are given social leeway to berate their would-be complimenter. If anything, it seems like women would be given more social leeway to react negatively to such comments because it is likely assumed that women deal with such unwanted comments more than men, which itself may be a sexist assumption (Not on your part since you've said no such thing, just in general.)

OT: Guy gets berated for acting in an inappropriate manner. Woman uses overly-strong language to denounce his actions due to her own annoyance. Humans continued to be humans everywhere. No big deal.

 

[Phasmal]

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

If expecting other people to have social skills is sexist then I'd very much prefer to live in a sexist society, thank you very much. Also if you think bitchy behavior is normal, it does not mean that it's actually normal. Maybe your standards aren't high enough.

But what do I know? I am just a gross and creepy freak who expects other to react to compliments with politeness, whether they are attracted to me or not.

Depends on what `bitchy` behaviour is to you. If it's not giving a fuck whether a random stranger thinks I have a nice smile or not, fuck it- don't care, I'm bitchy.

This is the kind of behaviour I mean. Getting replies like this because I suggest maybe women don't have to care when some rando decides that she must know his opinion on what she looks like.

If it's social skills that concern you, perhaps we need to teach people that not everyone cares to have their appearance commented on, and I don't think it's an accident that it generally happens to women more.
Of course, I'm always as polite as possible when someone decides to tell me what they think, but- I don't particularly care for it.

EDIT: Just to make my position perfectly clear: I'm not rude to people who compliment me, I just wish they wouldn't. I'm an anxious person anyway and don't like talking to strangers, having random interactions thrust upon me is not fun, but when I express `I don't like people coming up to talk to me about how I look`- I get told I should just be happy about it or have sympathy for people who are trying to compliment me.

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

I don't know why you say that's sexist. It's not as if men who receive unsolicited compliments on their looks are viewed in any positive light if they turn around and go off on the person giving them the compliment. If someone called me a hottie and I turned around and berated her for it, I have strong doubts that many would say that I was "reacting perfectly normally." It's not as if women are expected to pretend to be flattered where men are given social leeway to berate their would-be complimenter. If anything, it seems like women would be given more social leeway to react negatively to such comments because it is likely assumed that women deal with such unwanted comments more than men, which itself may be a sexist assumption (Not on your part since you've said no such thing, just in general.)

In my experience, if a guy gets hit on by a much older woman, it's usually laughed off as her being a sad wannabe cougar. But men hitting on much younger women is seen as fine, and they should consider the guy's feelings even if he was being creepy.

But I won't claim my experience is universal, I'm happy to disagree, I just don't like it when I see shit like this with a ton of remarks how the woman is horrible for not wanting to be hit on.

 

[Gorrath]

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

If expecting other people to have social skills is sexist then I'd very much prefer to live in a sexist society, thank you very much. Also if you think bitchy behavior is normal, it does not mean that it's actually normal. Maybe your standards aren't high enough.

But what do I know? I am just a gross and creepy freak who expects other to react to compliments with politeness, whether they are attracted to me or not.

A bit of empathy for the other person may not go amiss though. My wife is quite attractive and gets sick and tired of people constantly pointing it out. Sure, a single comment about your good looks might be nice but hearing it ad nauseum, as if that's the only thing anyone cares to say about you, might get more than a little annoying. Consider a particularly tall person having to listen to every third person the meet jabber on about how it's totally crazy how tall they are. It would begin to wear thin after a few decades, no? Social skills might also drive one to not be that person who feels like pointing out the way someone looks as if they aren't already aware of it. I grant you that being needlessly reactionary is also unwarranted but let us consider that person's perspective as well, right? It's only fair.

 

[Gorrath]

Gross all round, including some comments in here.

But you know what I think probably is sexist, how women are supposed to be flattered or at least pretend to be when some dipshit comes up and comments on her appearance. Unwanted comments on your face aren't the most fun thing, and yet when a woman doesn't pretend that she's flattered all of a sudden she's a ***** for reacting perfectly normally to a stranger's unsolicited opinion on what she looks like.

I don't know why you say that's sexist. It's not as if men who receive unsolicited compliments on their looks are viewed in any positive light if they turn around and go off on the person giving them the compliment. If someone called me a hottie and I turned around and berated her for it, I have strong doubts that many would say that I was "reacting perfectly normally." It's not as if women are expected to pretend to be flattered where men are given social leeway to berate their would-be complimenter. If anything, it seems like women would be given more social leeway to react negatively to such comments because it is likely assumed that women deal with such unwanted comments more than men, which itself may be a sexist assumption (Not on your part since you've said no such thing, just in general.)

In my experience, if a guy gets hit on by a much older woman, it's usually laughed off as her being a sad wannabe cougar. But men hitting on much younger women is seen as fine, and they should consider the guy's feelings even if he was being creepy.

But I won't claim my experience is universal, I'm happy to disagree, I just don't like it when I see shit like this with a ton of remarks how the woman is horrible for not wanting to be hit on.

I don't know about that myself. If a guy gets hit on by an older woman and turns around and acts like an ass toward her, I doubt that will garner the slightest sympathy toward his plight. I'd also say a lot of people would say that an older man hitting on a much younger woman would often be considered by many to be creepy and hardly sympathetic at all, the old lecher! I was just pointing out that a woman being expected to not get mad over a compliment isn't something just women have to deal with and so calling it sexist is probably not accurate, our own experiences notwithstanding.

Also I don't myself think she's particularly horrible for her reaction. He was an ass for hitting on her on a professional site, for sure and her reaction is probably a bit over the top. I have empathy for both. He made a comment he figured was probably flattering and innocuous not realizing he was going to annoy the shit out of her. She probably has to listen to unwanted compliments like that till they get annoying as hell and snapped at him for it. Neither of them are awful people in my book, seems about as typically human as it comes.

 

[TwistednMean]

If expecting other people to have social skills is sexist then I'd very much prefer to live in a sexist society, thank you very much. Also if you think bitchy behavior is normal, it does not mean that it's actually normal. Maybe your standards aren't high enough.

But what do I know? I am just a gross and creepy freak who expects other to react to compliments with politeness, whether they are attracted to me or not.

Depends on what `bitchy` behaviour is to you. If it's not giving a fuck whether a random stranger thinks I have a nice smile or not, fuck it- don't care, I'm bitchy.

This is the kind of behaviour I mean. Getting replies like this because I suggest maybe women don't have to care when some rando decides that she must know his opinion on what she looks like.

If it's social skills that concern you, perhaps we need to teach people that not everyone cares to have their appearance commented on, and I don't think it's an accident that it generally happens to women more.
Of course, I'm always as polite as possible when someone decides to tell me what they think, but- I don't particularly care for it.

OK, let's start with the basics. Complimenting someone on their looks or clothes is not "giving unsolicited opinion". It is a form of flattery that allows one person to show interest or just good graces to another. This is Human Interaction 101. I often hear compliments about my clothing style, especially in a professional environment where I have to dress business casual. I don't particularly care what people think about my clothes, but I accept it as a gesture of goodwill and often compliment coworkers myself. Especially female coworkers.

Girls indeed receive more attention than guys from strangers. But it does not happen because the almighty God of Patriarchy wills it so. It is relationship dynamics. Guys are supposed to take the first step and complimenting someone is one of the best ways to start a dialogue with a stranger. It build attraction, which does not have to be sexual in every case.

If a girl (or anyone else for that matter) tries to look attractive, then they want to hear compliments. She or he wants approval from other people. What she might not want is approval from someone outside her "class", someone beneath her, someone not worthy to make a judgement. If you don't see a problem with that attitude then, well, there's nothing I add, really.

Maybe, one more thing. Accusations of sexism have been used so often as an excuse for bitchy behavior these days, that I would respect a girl more if she would outright say that this elder guy's attention was beneath her. That way she would still be a *****, but at least not a hypocritical *****.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Look at this rationally, a 57 year old man inappropriately messaged a 27 year old on a professional website in a way that is annoying and frankly creepy.

Is it sexist? Not sure really, id say no, but at the same time is the problem here that the person being creeped on by an older "professional" used the "wrong word" to describe the creepiness? Is that the take away from this? Some guy was an asshole, some girl described his assholishness using the wrong words.

No compliments are not sexist. You think being complimented is what made her annoyed? Cmon try and understand her perspective and apply SOME context. You cant honestly believe compliments are being accused of being sexist here right? I cant possibly imagine how youd take that from this story.

is the only thing that makes it asshole-ish because it's a professional website meant for finding jobs? cause okay, I see that.

I'm also wondering whats wrong with a grown man essentially hitting on a full grown adult woman (in general, context of the website not withstanding). My own parents age difference is 30 yrs.

Do you consider hitting on random people regardless of where you meet them to be behavior that should be considered polite? I'd lean towards crass.

I mean isn't that how it works? I really wouldn't know. I'm a hermit these days.

You meet someone, if youre interested you throw signals out there, they either return those signals or they don't. Bar, work, whatever.

I mean cause if showing interest is a terrible social tresspass, I mean fucking aye, why bother trying for a date? It could all blow back up in your face.

 

[Vigormortis]

ITT: Assumptions. Assumptions everywhere....

...That's not being sexist.
Jesus Christ, what is the world coming to? If that's sexist, then I'm sexist every damn time I call anyone, irrespective of their sex, stunning, or beautiful, or anything complimentary.
Is that how they want it, huh? A world where everyone is put down, and no one gets compliments?

Spoiler

Yes, I've generally been living in a cave.

It's a shame, really. The overuse of these terms has made them so nebulous and vague that they're starting to border on useless. It's actually beginning to undermine the useful of the labels. What's the point of calling everyone and everything sexist when it invariably leads to us collectively losing sight of actual sexism and of those committing it?

It doesn't solve the problem, it compounds it. And the last thing we need right now is to fucking compound the issue of sexism.

That said: What that man did was creepy, unprofessional, crass, and uncalled for. LinkedIn is not the place for such behavior and I feel the man should be mocked for his inappropriate behavior. Ms. Proudman had every right to be insulted and upset at his behavior.

But to call him sexist for the act? That's pushing it.

 

[maninahat]

I do agree that it was highly unprofessional (and more than a bit creepy) and the guy should have known better, and on that count I think she was perfectly within her rights to say give him a slap on the wrist. I don't, however, think that the comment in and of itself was sexist (not that I can really make much of a judgement considering they didn't show it in its entirety). To me, it seemed like a simple, casual remark. It didn't seem like he was belittling her or reducing her to just a pretty face, although I have no idea about the context. It might have been as a result of some form of sexism, but to say that with any sort of certainty would be highly presumptuous.

Sort of curious now, if a criteria for sexism is how serious it is, at what point does one stop being casual? Do you have to be a professional sexist?

A lot of bigotry is simple and casual. I'm not sure why this would be a defense against claims of sexism.

I know? I mean Jesus Christ, what does a person have to do to be counted as sexist around here? Slap a woman across the tits and call her a cute whore during an appraisal? People seem to think that as long as you weren't making an overt, malicious attempt at being sexist, you can't possibly have been sexist.

 

[maninahat]

I think there are literally 0 contexts in which it is logically and linguistically appropriate to define his comment sexist. This is honestly madness.

As a heterosexual male, he would never ever approach a man in this way in a professional context of recruiting someone. It is sexist he thought that this was an appropriate way to talk to women on a professional website, it was sexist for the way he treats women differently from men, it is sexist in his emphasis on a woman's appearance in a business environment, over her business acumen. If I made these comments towards a female colleague I'd be goddamn fired, and that would happen whether or not I tried to make a pedantic argument about the application of the word "sexist".

 

[Gorrath]

I think there are literally 0 contexts in which it is logically and linguistically appropriate to define his comment sexist. This is honestly madness.

As a heterosexual male, he would never ever approach a man in this way in a professional context of recruiting someone. It is sexist he thought that this was an appropriate way to talk to women on a professional website, it was sexist for the way he treats women differently from men, it is sexist in his emphasis on a woman's appearance in a business environment, over her business acumen. If I made these comments towards a female colleague I'd be goddamn fired, and that would happen whether or not I tried to make a pedantic argument about the application of the word "sexist".

Well I've stated a few times I think his behavior was not appropriate, but this is diluting "sexist" to the point of uselessness. I treat women differently from men because I am a heterosexual. I don't hit on men because I don't find men sexually attractive. The most basic definition of sexism, treating one sex different than the other sex, makes me a sexist for simply not hitting on men. If we are to deal with sexism, it isn't enough to label something "sexist," one must demonstrate why the "sexist" thing is a moral or ethical concern. This guy telling a women he finds her picture stunning is crass and inappropriate given the context but does it rise to the level of immorality or the unethical? Impolite? Sure. Crass? You bet. Improper? That too. Immoral, unethical? That seems a rather bit of an over reaction.

Her business acumen is not a point of validity unless we can show that he had some business relationship with her. Merely finding her on Linkedin does not count as that, surely. It's not even as bad as as telling a woman you work with that you find her attractive and would like to go out on a date. Work is not the appropriate place to ask her out, sure but you aren't a sexist because you asked out a female coworker and didn't ask out one of your male coworkers.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

While the guy comes across as a creep, I doubt sexism motivated his remark.

I actually think he was right. The picture is very good for a linked in profile and it is kinda stunning. Not in a sexy way but it just has the right lighting.

Not to mention nicely framed and composed. If I was getting a business photo taken, I'd definitely want one like it.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

If I made these comments towards a female colleague I'd be goddamn fired...

You'd be "Goddamn fired" for telling a woman she looked great in a picture? Not even a sexually explicit comment, literally just "you look stunning in that photo"?

I was going to argue against your logic, but now I just feel too damn sorry for you. Crikey, who do you work for, 'Jezebel'?