I do not like Western games at all (please read)

[Zera]

Now dont judge me by the title alone. Just hear me out. I work at a Gamestop. Do you know our best sellers are?
Guess?



Sport games
GTA
Halo 3
Scarface(?!?)
25 to Life( oh come on!)
50 cent Bulletproof(this is sad)

This just saddens me. Looking at future releases didnt help either.

Kane and Lynch
Haze
Crysis
Call of duty 4
Unreal tournament 3
GTA4
etc

Where is the variety? I dont want to shoot something! I dont want the game to be realistic! Since when do games have to be realistic to be awesome and fun.
WHERE IS THE FUN!?!

Sorry I went on a rant there, but I had to say something. and I am pretty sure I am not the only one who thinks this way. I am no way baised on games. Dont get me wrong. Its just how can you blame me. It seems that American developers either:

cant think of anything original or creative
publishers dont want to take risks

and thats just sad. I was watching Bonus Round on Gametrailers.com(check it out, but dont read the comments) and one of them came up with this:

The 3 F's of Japanese games

Fun
Fantasy
Freedom(able to develop any game without or minimal publisher interference)

The 3 R's of Western games

Rockets(explosions, senseless killings)
Realism
Rights(Licences, movie games, sport games)

If you think about, this pretty much sums it all up

I am not saying Western games suck all together, its just now I dont see any that interest me.
I just cant believe games like Madden sell like crazy, while creative and FUN games like Psychonauts and Odin Sphere gather dust( they are such good games)

 

[Joe]

The 3 F's of Japanese games

Fun
Fantasy
Freedom(able to develop any game without or minimal publisher interference)

You forgot another "F": Final

 

[Zera]

The 3 F's of Japanese games

Fun
Fantasy
Freedom(able to develop any game without or minimal publisher interference)

You forgot another "F": Final

Lol I get it.
But by that I mean there games are hardly set in the "Real" world

 

[Bongo Bill]

Being in the West, you are isolated somewhat from the immense teeming oceans of excrement that constitute roughly 80-90% all games, with a uniform global distribution. You can see the American crap just fine because you're so close to it, but why would the Japanese want to send you their crap?

The cost of exporting a game is so great that only the cream of the crap ever gets sent across the Pacific. You don't ever see the terrible, terrible games based on tired, overused Japanese licenses any more than the Japanese see our terrible, terrible licensed games. Without a steady diet of the culture of a nation - and I mean real culture, the banal suburban-equivalent workaday world, not just those aspects of pop culture they choose to sell to foreigners - it is difficult to appreciate just how much of what seems fresh and original over here is just an expression of a different culture's cliché. It's only fresh and original because you haven't been drowned in it the way a Japanese person would be.

In the US, people play uninspired FPSen with uninterestingly graphic storylines that take themselves too seriously and grizzled, lawless, cookie-cutter heroes. In Japan, people play uninspired RPGs with uninterestingly melodramatic storylines that take themselves too seriously and androgynous, angsty, cookie-cutter heroes. The stuff that makes it across the Pacific - in either direction - is the stuff that reminds us why these overused clichés are overused in the first place.

You want a great Western game released in the past year, that's not a shooter, not a sports game, not a licensed game, not focused on realism, made by someone with a passion for it? I can think of six: Defcon, Supreme Commander, God of War 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Overlord, and all those Sam & Max episodes they've been making. Maybe you don't like all six of those. I know I don't. But they exist, they're high-quality, and they don't touch your hated Three R's. If you can get over your aversion to the first-person viewpoint, you can add S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Bioshock, Metroid Prime 3, and most recently Team Fortress 2, and while there are many explosions in these, I'd hardly call any of those senseless. And that's not even scratching the surface of the tip of the indie and freeware games iceberg.

So really, what you've got here is an unfair comparison.

But if it's sales you're complaining about, what you'll find is that cliché sells well everywhere.

 

[Zera]

Bongo Bill I like your view on this subject and I respect that, but the games you suggested to me arent helping. Most of them are war games which means more shooting and killing. I liked God of War 2, but that also had more killing, which I dont need to have fun. Lord of the Rings is Game based of a book licence. Overlord was cool too but I prefer to play Pikmin. At least in Metroid prime 3, they mixed things up in the First person genre(not to mention having the best control for a FPS to date)

And just like Not all Americans play FPS, not all Japanese play RPG. I am saying that the Japanese market has more variety than the American Market. One of my favorite series is Phoenix Wright, which would have never been made here. So yeah its not really unfair

 

[Bongo Bill]

Ah, LOTRO is a licensed game, isn't it? Caught me there.

But really, if you're going to look at the state of Japanese games through rose-tinted glasses, at the very least you could do the same for the Americans and Europeans.

 

[gameloftguy]

I wouldn't look to the PC/Console for variety. They go with what sells and those tried and true platforms are not as big a risk taker as newer platforms can afford to be. I see your point that the variety is lacking. A brief look at new games coming out on those platforms really proves your point. I mean you could go with Atlantis, though that isn't very new and I heard it wasn't too good. There are other platforms out there or you could look to older games for the variety you seek.

Some relatively new mobile games that might pique your interest: Petz, Bubble Bash, Brain Challenge, Platinum Sodoku?

While Petz has a touch of realism, there is no violence or sports connected to it. You are just basically raising a virtual pet. Bubble Bash takes place on an island but is basically just a block breaking game. Brain Game is puzzles and Sodoku is a math game. Some variety there, all made by a western company.

A couple of new ones coming out but I can't disclose them, yet.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Also, STALKER was Ukrainian as I recall, so I'm not sure if it constitutes a "Western" game in the strictest sense of the word.

I think Bill is onto something, too. Being in the US, you have a much greater opportunity to see the shit cranked out by American developers, whereas imports tend to be filtered and appear at a generally higher level of quality as a result. I often say I've grown to prefer Euro games to American (Shadowgrounds, Painkiller, Max Payne, the X-Universe series, Divine Divinity, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, STALKER (which obviously proves my definition of "Euro" a little loose) and so forth) but I don't have to put up with the presumably-huge pile of crapola they crank out just like we do. I agree that the vast majority of games released these days are garbage (EA Sports anything and the various GTA-inspired gangsta nonsense are two prime examples) but I don't think it's a uniquely American trait.

 

[Hengst2404]

I think this article clearly misses some important points. For starters, making games is a business to nearly everybody involved. Yes they can be art, but Japan and the West, as has been pointed out, mine the same genres relentlessly.

In the US we definitely benefit from cherry-picked Japanese titles that are sent over here with market research to back up the release. This usually ends up bringing a host of unique titles and has gone a long way towards creating games like Guitar Hero and the upcoming Rock Band.

I think for all the Halos and Half-Life titles, there is a Viva Pinata out there somewhere. Jade Empire, Baldurs gate and Kotor were all great examples of first class Western RPG games and they definitely helped advance the genre. Imagine a Final fantasy game with a branching storyline where you decide some of the action. I cannot think of many Japanese games that allow you the freedom of Oblivion or even Fable. Codemaster's Overlord was also an awesome game.

Let us also not forget about games like Populus, the upcoming Spore, the ultima games which did more for brining RPGs into the mainstream than anything else. It is very easy to look at the crappy licensed games which are major sellers in this country and romanticize the Japanese gaming market, but remember, unless you live in Japan and are an active part of that market, how can you really marginalize Western games as derivative and Japanese titles as unique and fresh?

 

[Joe]

I think this article clearly misses some important points.

To be clear, this isn't an article.

 

[Ajar]

Imagine a Final fantasy game with a branching storyline where you decide some of the action.

For that matter, imagine a Final Fantasy game that doesn't entail hours upon hours of grinding on mobs.

I'm kind of the inverse of the original poster, actually. My preferences skew strongly toward Western games by developers like BioWare and Blizzard, and Irrat2K Boston's BioShock was my most recent gaming love affair. I never had consoles growing up, though. The first Metroid Prime -- an American take on a Japanese franchise -- was what got me into console gaming.

If you don't want to kill stuff, it isn't just Western games you need to be avoiding -- after all, those smooshed goombas don't just get up and walk away.

 

[acerbity]

For that matter, imagine a Final Fantasy game that doesn't entail hours upon hours of grinding on mobs.

I'm kind of the inverse of the original poster, actually. My preferences skew strongly toward Western games by developers like BioWare and Blizzard

Lets get some minute details straightened out.

Any and every Final Fantasy (minus the MMO) can be beaten without "Hours and hours of grinding," much less grinding at all.

Then you go on to quote Blizzard as being one of your favorite developers?

Play World of Warcraft much?

Your reasoning here seems backwards to me.

 

[keithburgun]

Here's the thing. You're listing only CONSOLE games, which pretty much (outside a FEW games) suck hard. Especially american console games. So what you should be doing is checking out all the 90s american PC games, THATS where its at. Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, Wizardry 8, X-Com, Dungeon Keeper, StarCraft, Half-Life, Master of Magic, Fantasy General and MANY more. If you havent played all of these, go do so.

But you're right, if you limit yourself to console games, then yes, American games suck.

I'd like to add two more points:

"Freedom(able to develop any game without or minimal publisher interference)"

If you value freedom - compare American RPGs to Japanese RPGs. Japanese ones are completely linear typically, whereas American ones (Ultima 6/7, Arcanum, Fallout) are completely nonlinear.

And also, it is indeed the publishers who cause games to suck most of the time. I have friends who've worked in the industry and they say it is heartbreaking how the publishers crush games before they get anywere off the ground.

 

[zoskiaculta]

Hengst2404:
Imagine a Final fantasy game with a branching storyline where you decide some of the action.

That would be Final Fantasy X-2, then...

These games reflect demographics rather than anything else- Western games are tailored for a Xbox/Gaming Rig audience- i.e male, American, 16-30. Japanese games are aimed for a different demographic.

And publishers don't cause games to suck- they choose ones that they think will sell, based on prior performance, and tend to be conservative as they don't want to end up bankrupt. This often ends up backfiring, of course, with a dozen near-future Unreal 3 engine-a-likes being released in the same quarter, but that's a different issue.

An example of games we Westerners only see some of is turn-based 2d alchemy rpgs- we see one or two in a console lifecycle, so they are an enjoyable novelty for us. If we saw two or three a year, we'd be sick of 'em pretty fast.

Not that I actually disagree, I also think Western games are rather too narrowly focussed and use non-linearity as a substitute for actual storytelling, but the grass isn't super-green anywhere else if you look at it closely...

 

[Maverynthia]

I can agree. There are very few Western game I want to play at all, and those are mostly RPGs or some kind of sim/world building or puzzle game. It seems in the West, Graphics == Fun. Like the Crysis engine and DX 10. Many people tell me I HAVE to get Vista because it supports DX10 and I ask "So what" and they give me some excerpt about graphics and Crysis and crap. Still, not one mention of gameplay comes out of their mouth. It saddens me when I am NOT a gamer because I'm not into grpahics. I don't care for FPS game or another copy paste war game. Or the fact that I love the Wii and find the PS3 lacking. I'm suddenly not a gamer....
True the Wii's library is a bit lacking in the actual content department, however the PS3's seems to be lacking in the fun department as well.

So in the end, I'll agree to say that I find the Asian games more appealing to me than the American/European ones. Not only that...Asian game tend to give me more fanservice for women... Just look at the guys of Granado Espada!

 

[Zera]

I am impressed by the reactions and views by all of you. After reading these, I have a few points i want to clarify.

Yes I am only considering console games for this topic. not saying that they are insignificant, but its a different genre if you ask me. I grew up on console games anyways.

I have no problem if my games have linearity in them, as long as it isnt boring. I am still playing Resident Evil 4 and that game is linear. As long as the game dosent tell me what to do specifically or is like the King Kong game based of the craptacular movie then I am good.

I am pretty sure American developers can come up with awesome ideas for existing genres and even new ones. Its unfortunate that most publishers like to take fewer bets on cool ideas.

Ever noticed that Japanese companies do well, if not better with American licences. I mean look at Capcom. They mad those awesome beat-em-ups with licenses like the Punisher and Alien vs. Predator. Now those were fun. Konami did well with Ninja Turtles and the X-men. Hell when Capcom had the Marvel licence, they came together and created the Marvel vs. Capcom series. That was epic. And what did Marvel do? They left Capcom and went with *shudders* EA and created Marvel Nemesis. That was a great game wasnt it?(I am being sarcastic if you are confused)

Thats all for now

 

[Zera]

From Maverynthia
"I can agree. There are very few Western game I want to play at all, and those are mostly RPGs or some kind of sim/world building or puzzle game. It seems in the West, Graphics == Fun. Like the Crysis engine and DX 10. Many people tell me I HAVE to get Vista because it supports DX10 and I ask "So what" and they give me some excerpt about graphics and Crysis and crap. Still, not one mention of gameplay comes out of their mouth. It saddens me when I am NOT a gamer because I'm not into grpahics. I don't care for FPS game or another copy paste war game. Or the fact that I love the Wii and find the PS3 lacking. I'm suddenly not a gamer....
True the Wii's library is a bit lacking in the actual content department, however the PS3's seems to be lacking in the fun department as well."


Tell me about it..

 

[bue519]

Alright lets get a few things straight Crysis is a whole lot deeper than you make it out to be Zera it just looks good doing it. I mean by your standards a game has to look like utter crap to be fun. Also the people that are producing Kane and Lynch are the same people that did the hit man series, that i though was much more innovative than most games at the time, and the game makes you an awesome anti-hero. Also you seem to misunderstand the point of FPS games. Its not always about killing people, FPS can just immerse you better and turn you into the hero or anti-hero.


P.S. Jade Empire was one of the biggest turds in history and I had to hire someone to exorcise it from my hard drive. But I loved KOTOR more than most of my immediate family so I do still like bioware.

 

[Zera]

Alright lets get a few things straight Crysis is a whole lot deeper than you make it out to be Zera it just looks good doing it. I mean by your standards a game has to look like utter crap to be fun. Also the people that are producing Kane and Lynch are the same people that did the hit man series, that i though was much more innovative than most games at the time, and the game makes you an awesome anti-hero. Also you seem to misunderstand the point of FPS games. Its not always about killing people, FPS can just immerse you better and turn you into the hero or anti-hero.


P.S. Jade Empire was one of the biggest turds in history and I had to hire someone to exorcise it from my hard drive. But I loved KOTOR more than most of my immediate family so I do still like bioware.

As far how the game looks to me, its all about the art style. Honestly good art and design trumps graphics. Not saying both would hurt though, just get the gameplay and fun down first. As for First-person games, it not my fault that 98% of them are shooters. I love the first person idea, just apply it to something different like adventure. It worked wonders for Metroid Prime, which was actually developed by A texas based studio, Retro Studios.

 

[Zera]

Oh and I also forgot to mention Square-Enix with Disney to make Kingdom Hearts. Name a good American made Disney game.