I need to get something off my chest regarding Wil Wheaton

President Bagel

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Until recently, I considered Wil Wheaton something of a hero to me. I thought he was an exceedingly intelligent, talented, empathetic, and just all round exemplary human being. If I was in the right mood, I could watch the video where he encouraged a bullied girl to stand up for herself, and take pity on those who tormented her and tear up.

Over time, my feelings towards him have changed.

Without getting into specifics, I've become gradually disillusioned with how vitriolic he can be towards people with opinions that dissent from his own. I believe that there's nothing wrong when two people hold opinions that conflict with one another. The world would be a very boring place if everybody thought exactly the same. Disagreeing with others is part of what makes us human, and we should all learn to celebrate our diversities, and take what we can from different perspectives. Disagreeing with someone should never be a cause for being mean to them.

Wheaton's law says not to be a dick to other people. That is something I believe in wholeheartedly. Just how awesome would this world be if we could all learn to develop empathy not only towards those whom we disagree with, but also those who have wronged us? Not everybody deserves respect, but no human being is deserving of pure emotional hatred. Propagating hatred will only compound the world's problems.

In the unlikely chance you ever read this, Wil, I just want to thank you for all of the times you have inspired me to become a better person. I would never seek to undermine all of the countless times when you've done good things for others, but until you learn to be more polite towards people with diverging points of view, you're not someone I want to call myself a fan of. I wish you and your loved ones the very best in life.

Sincerely, J. Stone
 

President Bagel

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Queen Michael said:
Just to be clear... Is this a gamergate thng?
Partly, but not exclusively. I regard myself as neutral towards Gamergate, but I do somewhat empathize with the movement. At least parts of it.

There's no denying that there are a lot of miscreants that have used the Gamergate hashtag as a means of inseminating the internet with as much ignorance and repugnance as is humanly imaginable. But saying that the movement is composed entirely of 15 year old males who refuse to grow up is demonstrably incorrect. Sadly, Wil isn't the only person to have made this assertion.

I watched a Youtube video last night (which appears to no longer exist. Apologies for not remembering the author) showing numerous video clips of amicable men, women, and lgbt members speaking about wanting to see progressive changes in video games. These were individuals that identified with Gamergate. I feel bad that they're being lumped in with the same people who have made death/rape threats via Twitter. It's incredibly short sighted to not realize just how much damage people do to themselves when they behave with malice.

There's a few other things he's said that have caused me to lose respect for him, but I see no point to get into further details. In fact, I think I've said everything that I needed to here. Thanks to anyone that took the time to read this. I really needed to get it off my chest.

All I can hope now is that this thread doesn't turn into Romper Room by the time I wake up. Please be kind to one another.
 

L. Declis

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Wil Wheaton is a lot like Moviebob.

A lot of what he says makes sense, and back before he got into social justice, he was a pretty cool dude with some nice morals; Be kind to each other, don't be a dick, be polite.

But as he has gotten more famous and more into the "in" crowd, he has slowly started to pick up bad habits; he has treated multiple people like shit in public, he has become rude, and he thinks that he can say anything he wants and is immune to criticism because he is popular among the geeks and non-geeks alike.

I have come to believe firmly that you should NEVER meet your heroes, because they're probably arseholes nowadays. I loved Jackie Chan; finding out a bit more about him has completely shattered my image of him, for example.
 

Queen Michael

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President Bagel said:
Partly, but not exclusively. I regard myself as neutral towards Gamergate, but I do somewhat empathize with the movement. At least parts of it.

There's no denying that there are a lot of miscreants that have used the Gamergate hashtag...
Yeah, I should have seen the tone as a telltale sign. That kind of highbrow tone is typical for people who support, or empathize with, gamergate.

And just to be clear: That's not meant to be seen as taking a stand or judging or anything. It's just an observation.
 

President Bagel

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President Bagel said:
But saying that the movement is composed entirely of 15 year old males who refuse to grow up is demonstrably incorrect.
Did he mean they're all 15 years old but behave like they're nine or ten, or did he mean some of them are older but behave like they're 15? Until that's cleared up I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree. You'd probably be better off Tweeting at him directly than posting on forums he's unlikely to read though.
 

L. Declis

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Baffle said:
L. Declis said:
I loved Jackie Chan; finding out a bit more about him has completely shattered my image of him, for example.
Did you think he was really tall IRL?
Found out that he spent most of his time on set shagging every female on set, even making it an informal part of the contract for working with him.

He also works very closely with the Communist Party, and has gone onto many T.V. shows arguing for party interests.

He has also gotten his son out of a death penalty offence via corruption.

His last two films not released abroad was anti Western propaganda films.
 

President Bagel

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L. Declis said:
Found out that he spent most of his time on set shagging every female on set, even making it an informal part of the contract for working with him.

He also works very closely with the Communist Party, and has gone onto many T.V. shows arguing for party interests.

He has also gotten his son out of a death penalty offence via corruption.

His last two films not released abroad was anti Western propaganda films.
To be completely fair, he does do all his own stunts.
 

thanatos388

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Baffle said:
L. Declis said:
Found out that he spent most of his time on set shagging every female on set, even making it an informal part of the contract for working with him.

He also works very closely with the Communist Party, and has gone onto many T.V. shows arguing for party interests.

He has also gotten his son out of a death penalty offence via corruption.

His last two films not released abroad was anti Western propaganda films.
To be completely fair, he does do all his own stunts.
All the good ones tend to be assholes. Every time I'm just kinda indifferent to a persons work or think it outright sucks they tend to be really nice people. The talented inspirational ones....all shitheads. Why?

(And I'm sure its not actually like this 100% of the time but it tends to be that way)
 

Fat Hippo

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L. Declis said:
Baffle said:
L. Declis said:
I loved Jackie Chan; finding out a bit more about him has completely shattered my image of him, for example.
Did you think he was really tall IRL?
Found out that he spent most of his time on set shagging every female on set, even making it an informal part of the contract for working with him.

He also works very closely with the Communist Party, and has gone onto many T.V. shows arguing for party interests.

He has also gotten his son out of a death penalty offence via corruption.

His last two films not released abroad was anti Western propaganda films.
Strangely enough, out of all these it's the shagging that surprised me the most. I mean, yeah he's funny, but he never seemed like a guy with much sex appeal. But then, I guess that would explain the informal contracts.

Points 2 and 4 are just so weird to me. I mean, you make an assload of money catering to western audiences in a capitalist system, creating the kinds of movies they like, but you're really a communist who dislikes the west? Rationalizing that much hypocrisy must be hard.

I'm gonna defend the third one however. If my son was going to be put to death, and I had the power to stop it, then I would, unless the crimes of my son were truly heinous to an extreme degree.

Pertaining to Wil Wheaton: I just kinda of started to get annoyed with him. I liked some of his TableTop videos, but with Season 3, the humor just got so goddamn cringe-worthy and childish. And I'm fine with the show being child-friendly, but it just felt more and more like he was catering to that specific audience, and the videos became worse for it.

I don't care about his politics This is the reason I stay away from Twitter. It's all just passive-aggressive bullshit and shout-matches anyway.
 

Redryhno

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Fat_Hippo said:
Pertaining to Wil Wheaton: I just kinda of started to get annoyed with him. I liked some of his TableTop videos, but with Season 3, the humor just got so goddamn cringe-worthy and childish. And I'm fine with the show being child-friendly, but it just felt more and more like he was catering to that specific audience, and the videos became worse for it.
Oh, god yes, this season has had some of the worst stuff, that Kid's Settlers episode? There's only so many times I can listen to the guy explaining the simplified rules of an already INCREDIBLY simple game to a group of kids that look like they don't really care. And that Cards Against Humanity thing? Like, it's a game about being as offensively funny as possible, but you've got three people scared to do anything, and only one that isn't afraid to play any and every card in the deck, and even Taylor's cards didn't make sense most of the time. Deck was sorta stacked in her favor there.

And finally, the recent Five Tribes episode, "we know that these emaciated people in loincloths and turbans with chains around their wrists and ankles are called slaves that we sacrifice to summon djinn in a time when slavery was still a thing and make sense in-game, but in the interest of not triggering you at home, we're going to call them 'assistants'" excuse. Especially since they made a joke out of killing people...you'd think they'd be more sensitive to those victims of murder out there. I enjoyed that Lord British called them slaves anyways though, kinda funny. Comment section was wonderfully hilarious too.

There's a big difference between being child-friendly and childish, and he doesn't seem to know the difference anymore as the earlier seasons had a good mix of adult and child humor, like pretty much any great kid show is.

OT:

But yeah, Wil's more than a bit of a hypocrite in alot of things, his 'don't be a dick' rule doesn't apply to people that disagree with him from what I've seen. Just enjoy the few things he can't go Wheaton mode on that he's involved in. He's like Whedon, Miyazaki, Ano,etc. they know their clique very well, are pretty good at what they're known for, but don't really know much about their audience or where they themselves have been exactly what they criticize now without admitting it.
 

Fat Hippo

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Redryhno said:
And finally, the recent Five Tribes episode, "we know that these emaciated people in loincloths and turbans with chains around their wrists and ankles are called slaves that we sacrifice to summon djinn in a time when slavery was still a thing and make sense in-game, but in the interest of not triggering you at home, we're going to call them 'assistants'" excuse. Especially since they made a joke out of killing people...you'd think they'd be more sensitive to those victims of murder out there. I enjoyed that Lord British called them slaves anyways though, kinda funny. Comment section was wonderfully hilarious too.
Man, that is painfully stupid. He reached the point where political correctness does a full reversal and somehow manages to be more offensive than using the actual word. I guess we're just going to stop using any words whatsoever, since they might "trigger" someone. Blergh.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Fat_Hippo said:
L. Declis said:
Baffle said:
L. Declis said:
I loved Jackie Chan; finding out a bit more about him has completely shattered my image of him, for example.
Did you think he was really tall IRL?
Found out that he spent most of his time on set shagging every female on set, even making it an informal part of the contract for working with him.

He also works very closely with the Communist Party, and has gone onto many T.V. shows arguing for party interests.

He has also gotten his son out of a death penalty offence via corruption.

His last two films not released abroad was anti Western propaganda films.
Strangely enough, out of all these it's the shagging that surprised me the most. I mean, yeah he's funny, but he never seemed like a guy with much sex appeal. But then, I guess that would explain the informal contracts.
It sounds like you aren't aware that Jackie Chan used to be a porn star. No, seriously. Back when he was first starting out in movies in Hong Kong he did at least one porno where he was the male lead.
 

Fat Hippo

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Dirty Hipsters said:
It sounds like you aren't aware that Jackie Chan used to be a porn star. No, seriously. Back when he was first starting out in movies in Hong Kong he did at least one porno where he was the male lead.
Huh. Well, there have been a lot of unattractive male porn actors. For some reason I'll never comprehend. I can actually understand Jackie Chan better than I ever will Ron Jeremy.
 

DudeistBelieve

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...Are we talking about THE Wil Wheaton? Wesley Crusher? Wesley Crusher has a fan base? Who? Why?
 

Erttheking

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SaneAmongInsane said:
...Are we talking about THE Wil Wheaton? Wesley Crusher? Wesley Crusher has a fan base? Who? Why?
Mainly because he hates Wesley just as much as the rest of the Star Trek fandom. THAT'S HOW BAD WESLEY WAS! The guy who played him hated his guts! "Shut up Wesley" has become Wheaton's catchphrase. Heck in galaxy quest he was disappointed he couldn't get a role where he shreds apart the kid appeal character.
 

The Bucket

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Fat_Hippo said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
It sounds like you aren't aware that Jackie Chan used to be a porn star. No, seriously. Back when he was first starting out in movies in Hong Kong he did at least one porno where he was the male lead.
Huh. Well, there have been a lot of unattractive male porn actors. For some reason I'll never comprehend. I can actually understand Jackie Chan better than I ever will Ron Jeremy.
I presume that in straight male targeted porn, the looks of the man is pretty irrelevant, and "performance" is more highly valued.
 

Thaluikhain

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The Bucket said:
I presume that in straight male targeted porn, the looks of the man is pretty irrelevant, and "performance" is more highly valued.
Supposedly if you put unattractive men in porn, the male viewers won't think the attractive female pornstars they are having sex with are out of their league. Or something.

thanatos388 said:
All the good ones tend to be assholes. Every time I'm just kinda indifferent to a persons work or think it outright sucks they tend to be really nice people. The talented inspirational ones....all shitheads. Why?

(And I'm sure its not actually like this 100% of the time but it tends to be that way)
I know, right? Ok, alternatively it could be that we are surprised at this sort of thing more, so it stands out and is memorable, but it seems to be true.

I wonder, though, does this only work once you like them for their talent? Otherwise, find the worst people you can, and they should be good at what they do, right?
 

Fappy

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I dunno, if GG is allowed to slander individuals and "SJWs/AGGros" right-and-left I think the same courtesy should be extended to Mr. Wheaton. His perspective is largely representative of... most everyone who doesn't support GG. I'm not saying it is right, but I really don't think his ideas of GG are really worth getting upset about. You're going to disagree with other people and they're sometimes going to disappoint you with what they say.

I mean, I consider myself a fan of Gary Oldman despite thinking a lot of his ideology is straight-up toxic. People aren't perfect, and their ideas of GG shouldn't make you turn your back on them.

GG is not the second coming of Christ, guys. It's really not that important int he scheme of things. If my personal hero Stan Lee said "SJWs" were just a bunch of whiny liberal arts majors I'd probably cringe for a minute, but I'd get over it. I mean, Stan's the man. Come on.
 

Smooth Operator

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People wouldn't be running into these problems if they understood once and for all that we are all human, just human, not saints, not above others, just human. Some days are good some days are bad, some topics we know a lot about other we know jack shit about, sometimes we are level headed and sometimes we are emotional wrecks. That is what humans are, that is what they always will be.

So praise peoples achievement's instead of people, because for every piece of good we do there is a pile of shit stashed somewhere you don't yet know of.
 

President Bagel

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Now all I can think of is Jackie Chan and Burt Reynolds in some behind-the-scenes action in Cannonball Run. Doing backflips over a gigantic moustache or something. And having sex.
 

MASTACHIEFPWN

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Huh, that sort of reminds me of something...


MASTACHIEFPWN thus begins to violently run towards the exit of this topic as if he were being chased by tigers for the inexcusable sin he hath just committed.
 

AntiChri5

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Fappy said:
I dunno, if GG is allowed to slander individuals and "SJWs/AGGros" right-and-left I think the same courtesy should be extended to Mr. Wheaton. His perspective is largely representative of... most everyone who doesn't support GG. I'm not saying it is right, but I really don't think his ideas of GG are really worth getting upset about. You're going to disagree with other people and they're sometimes going to disappoint you with what they say.

I mean, I consider myself a fan of Gary Oldman despite thinking a lot of his ideology is straight-up toxic. People aren't perfect, and their ideas of GG shouldn't make you turn your back on them.

GG is not the second coming of Christ, guys. It's really not that important int he scheme of things. If my personal hero Stan Lee said "SJWs" were just a bunch of whiny liberal arts majors I'd probably cringe for a minute, but I'd get over it. I mean, Stan's the man. Come on.
This is something i have noticed GG folks do so often. Every time an individual or series or whatever said anything against Gamergate, there was a rush of people pronouncing they could no longer support it.

Don't get me wrong, some people (Moviebob) go so fucking far that i can't blame anyone who has a different view for being unable to support them, but a lot of sensible, reasonable folks too.
 

psijac

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thaluikhain said:
The Bucket said:
I presume that in straight male targeted porn, the looks of the man is pretty irrelevant, and "performance" is more highly valued.
Supposedly if you put unattractive men in porn, the male viewers won't think the attractive female pornstars they are having sex with are out of their league. Or something.
Attractive men do gay porn for a paycheck that is much much bigger than the pay for straight scenes. its call gay for pay.