I Think I've Reached A Boiling Point When It Comes To Social Justice

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Wraith said:
Yeah, that's terrible, but I can't lie and say I haven't seen the same for the words misogynist and racist. I remember that thread we had long ago where people were discussing how they were called a racist in person and most of the instances were because a white person didn't bend over backwards for a minority.
And I don't agree with that use, either. The problem here is that Social Justice Warrior is a term that, by definition, is intended as a pejorative. Comparing it to people who use the terms "sexist" or "racist" as a blanket pejorative isn't playing on the same level.

I mean, you can use your own definition of the word, but the common usage of the term is more akin to use of "******" as a slur. It doesn't so much matter if the people involved are actually homosexual, it's an insult used to specifically put down people.

I'm not even sure the overuse of "racism" and "sexism" fall into that same category to be honest. I think decades of being told this isn't an issue causes a natural pushback. I still don't think it's right, but when you've been harrangued over things like skin colour or what's between your legs, you tend to either adapt or become a raw nerve.

It's hard to argue parity with the other side.

But I've got to say, I think it would be more offensive if the people who kept accusing me of social justice warrirorness used it the way you do. I get called it a lot for reasons that are not only important to me, but part of me. For supporting LGBT rights. Not only am I a member, I've had my life jeopardised for it. For supporting racial equality. Well, I'm half Native American. While I'm certainly fair enough to pass, in a culture like we had even sixty years ago, I could have been in serious trouble. Not as bad as people who were part black, no, but there's some sympathy on that end. And I have brown family members. Proximity alone has tempered my feelings.

So if I were to take them seriously, they are then accusing me of not really supporting....Well, myself, among other people.

And that's more insulting than someone simply trying to shut me down for thinking differently than they do.

On a related note, I'd like to think I'd have empathy for other people even without having been on the short end of the stick so often, but whether it's just who I am or an experiential thing, something has allowed me to empathise with others. I can never truly understand what it's like to be black in the US, but I can imagine a reasonable facsimile. I'll never be Muslim, but I have an idea of roughly what they're going through because I can roughly put myself in their shoes. It's never a perfect fit, but to be accused of insincerity, even if my ass isn't specifically on the line, it's ridiculous.

And that's not aimed at you, it's just the point of usage issues. Most of the people being called SJWs are gays and women and blacks and other groups for which they ultimately do have a stake.

And I know people are outraged at male feminists and white supporters of racial equality, but not everyone has to have a personal stake to care.

And since I've rambled this much, allow me to say that I find people who are only concerned for people exactly the same skin colour, gender, or sexuality as them to be as infuriating.
 

The Lunatic

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Jun 3, 2010
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I just find SJWs to be hilarious.

Most of them are incredibly delusion. I don't know what drives people to isolate themselves so far from reality and logic, but, they do.

And it's amazing to watch. Thank you, SJWs. If it wasn't for you guys providing this comedy, life on the internet just wouldn't be as amusing as it is.
 

mecegirl

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May 19, 2013
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Zachary Amaranth said:
But I've got to say, I think it would be more offensive if the people who kept accusing me of social justice warrirorness used it the way you do. I get called it a lot for reasons that are not only important to me, but part of me. For supporting LGBT rights. Not only am I a member, I've had my life jeopardised for it. For supporting racial equality. Well, I'm half Native American. While I'm certainly fair enough to pass, in a culture like we had even sixty years ago, I could have been in serious trouble. Not as bad as people who were part black, no, but there's some sympathy on that end. And I have brown family members. Proximity alone has tempered my feelings.

So if I were to take them seriously, they are then accusing me of not really supporting....Well, myself, among other people.

And that's more insulting than someone simply trying to shut me down for thinking differently than they do.

On a related note, I'd like to think I'd have empathy for other people even without having been on the short end of the stick so often, but whether it's just who I am or an experiential thing, something has allowed me to empathise with others. I can never truly understand what it's like to be black in the US, but I can imagine a reasonable facsimile. I'll never be Muslim, but I have an idea of roughly what they're going through because I can roughly put myself in their shoes. It's never a perfect fit, but to be accused of insincerity, even if my ass isn't specifically on the line, it's ridiculous.

And that's not aimed at you, it's just the point of usage issues. Most of the people being called SJWs are gays and women and blacks and other groups for which they ultimately do have a stake.

And I know people are outraged at male feminists and white supporters of racial equality, but not everyone has to have a personal stake to care.

And since I've rambled this much, allow me to say that I find people who are only concerned for people exactly the same skin colour, gender, or sexuality as them to be as infuriating.
I've had the same experience. And oddly enough most of the time that I see people getting accused of being an SJW is when they are discussing issues relevant to them. I don't know if it's that some just assume everyone on the internet is either male or white and so that anyone who cares about "SJW" issues is just "outraged" for no reason. Not that the discussion always becomes less abrasive if you do mention how the issue being discussed affects you.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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mecegirl said:
I've had the same experience. And oddly enough most of the time that I see people getting accused of being an SJW is when they are discussing issues relevant to them. I don't know if it's that some just assume everyone on the internet is either male or white and so that anyone who cares about "SJW" issues is just "outraged" for no reason. Not that the discussion always becomes less abrasive if you do mention how the issue being discussed affects you.
Indeed, it sometimes becomes more heated. In my experience, which may not be typical, it often becomes more heated.

I'm not sure if it's related to the whole assumption that everyone on the internet is a straight white dude or not. I'm inclined to ay not, but I can't really preclude it. I've seen enough people who will accuse someone who's openly gay, or a woman, or whatever else, of being a SJW simply because it's used as an attack.
 

Doclector

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Aug 22, 2009
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It's practically the reason I have come to believe that equality is absolutely impossible.

In any of the movements, there's always going to be assholes, an unfortunate amount of them, who will ruin it. I'm not saying we should stop trying, but we should be prepared to accept that we're always going to be in a state of flux in these issues when we finally get somewhere near equality, a war of tit for tat between two extremes who are equally wrong in which those rational people in between are basically helpless to stop it.
 

Noetherian

Hermits United
May 3, 2012
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The Plunk said:
...deep down, they know that it's far easier to be an upper-middle class, black lesbian with a PhD in "Wimminz Studies" than it is to be a working class, straight, white male who dropped out of school.
I think you meant Womyn's Studies? ;)

I'm quoting this post because I think it exemplifies one of the largest problems with the various internet social justice movements (men's, women's, etc.) -- ultimately, almost every argument I've encountered has come down to a fight over who has it worse. On the one hand, what ever happened to trying to help people? Nobody seems to remember, in the heat of anonymous internet debate, that progress necessitates allies. If your justice movement is mostly making you enemies, something's gone wrong.

On the other hand: At what point did we forget that we're all human beings? Barring extreme mood disorders, we are all capable of experiencing pain, despair, misery, and loss -- and until I have the ability to experience first-hand what it is like to be someone else, I'm going to assume we're ALL just about equally capable of suffering.

(On the third hand: Is it not the wisdom of age to be able to laugh at basically everything, no matter how important it is? That's my "SJW/MRA" survival strategy, anyway.)

tl;dr -- What does it matter who has it worse? Let's help who we can, however we can, instead of exhausting ourselves making more misery.
 

Archer666

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May 27, 2011
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The only thing I hear about SJW usually comes from either 4chan or SA making fun of the stupid things they've said. And that's the way things should be. Tumblr is already a freak show, now its also producing top level comedy.
 

Wraith

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Oct 11, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Damn, Zachary over here telling it like it is.

There isn't much I can say to this other than I am really feeling you on this.

Zachary Amaranth said:
Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with the term "euphemism treadmill?"
I wasn't until I googled it just now. Interesting stuff.
 

Thaluikhain

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Noetherian said:
I'm quoting this post because I think it exemplifies one of the largest problems with the various internet social justice movements (men's, women's, etc.) -- ultimately, almost every argument I've encountered has come down to a fight over who has it worse.
On the one hand, yes, the Oppression Olympics is very much a thing.

On the other hand, it's well known that it's very much a thing, a lot of places on the net won't tolerate it.

Noetherian said:
If your justice movement is mostly making you enemies, something's gone wrong.
Not necessarily. If everyone was in favour of justice, people wouldn't need to have movements for it. Big difference between making enemies and attracting them.
 

lostlevel

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Nov 6, 2008
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Uhura said:
Colour Scientist said:
I've brought this up before but I doubt that most people who moan about tumblr have ever actually spent a significant amount of time there, they just form their impressions from stuff linked by people who go looking for trouble.

Edit: Also, as always with these kinds of threads, hyperbole ahoy!
Yeah, pretty much this. I've been using tumblr for a few years now and I pretty much never come across "SJW drama". Also kinda tired of the amount of hyperbole in these threads.
I've had tumblr for 4 or 5 years now, it depends on who you follow as to if you'll see SJW drama it often. If you search via the usual tags you'll find it but it rarely turns up in my dashboard. It is more often something I find by accident.

There does seem to be a lot more of it in the last year or so and it seems less researched but more reblogged than it used to be. Though a fair amount of posts seem to be more click bait than genuine attempts to promote discussion.

Wraith said:
Try not to get frustrated a lot of people post silly things when they are mad, persevere and if you can stomach it talk to them (perhaps in RL as people seem more reasonable there) that way one at a time you can perhaps educate some of those people. I must admit I can be pretty cynical but it's always worth trying to do something before giving up entirely. Hang in there.
 

mecegirl

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Zachary Amaranth said:
mecegirl said:
I've had the same experience. And oddly enough most of the time that I see people getting accused of being an SJW is when they are discussing issues relevant to them. I don't know if it's that some just assume everyone on the internet is either male or white and so that anyone who cares about "SJW" issues is just "outraged" for no reason. Not that the discussion always becomes less abrasive if you do mention how the issue being discussed affects you.
Indeed, it sometimes becomes more heated. In my experience, which may not be typical, it often becomes more heated.

I'm not sure if it's related to the whole assumption that everyone on the internet is a straight white dude or not. I'm inclined to ay not, but I can't really preclude it. I've seen enough people who will accuse someone who's openly gay, or a woman, or whatever else, of being a SJW simply because it's used as an attack.
I guess it's better than being accused of "pulling rank" for speaking confidently about an issue that does effect you. Which still happens from time to time. Maybe folks have realized how silly that tactic is?
 
Dec 10, 2012
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To me this comes back to the biggest problem the internet causes for us. I've done a whole lot of thinking about this, and my thesis amounts to this: The internet, while a wonderful tool for many things and clearly the medium for the future of communication in all forms, has a great big downside. It's non-partisan nature (that is, anyone on the planet with an internet connection can post anything they want on it) makes it frustrating, uncomfortable, and alienating. We are becoming exposed to amounts and kinds of information that the human personality has never had to deal with before, and we clearly aren't made for it. As bad a movie as it was, Johnny Mnemonic was on the right track.

The constant stream of conflicting opinions and information and emotion is overwhelming. Some of us just can't cope with it, so we become angry, or bitter, or shut-in. I think that's what's happening here. This boiling cauldron of useless information, challenging opinions, enraging scandals, ignorance, bias, fury over little things... It all feeds on itself and builds exponentially. The very existence of memes is an effect of this exponential increase of information sharing. I think it's too much for us to handle.

So, my advice is to limit your exposure. If it's just making you angry and giving you headaches, then your best option is to ignore it. I don't usually advocate ignorance, but since none of us can ever process the entire internet anyway, just do what's best for you.
 

AJ_Lethal

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Doclector said:
In any of the movements, there's always going to be assholes, an unfortunate amount of them, who will ruin it. I'm not saying we should stop trying, but we should be prepared to accept that we're always going to be in a state of flux in these issues when we finally get somewhere near equality, a war of tit for tat between two extremes who are equally wrong in which those rational people in between are basically helpless to stop it.
And that's something that everybody, inside and outside of movements tend to ignore. Movements should have self-policing to avoid that kind of shit.
 

Thaluikhain

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AJ_Lethal said:
Doclector said:
In any of the movements, there's always going to be assholes, an unfortunate amount of them, who will ruin it. I'm not saying we should stop trying, but we should be prepared to accept that we're always going to be in a state of flux in these issues when we finally get somewhere near equality, a war of tit for tat between two extremes who are equally wrong in which those rational people in between are basically helpless to stop it.
And that's something that everybody, inside and outside of movements tend to ignore. Movements should have self-policing to avoid that kind of shit.
How does that actually work, though? You've got no authority figures to decide who gets to stay and who gets kicked out.

As it stands, social justice types seem to spend at least as much of their time fighting each other, than arguing with anyone else.
 

Flutterguy

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That is the vision of the anarchy. It is also a point of reason.

Take your anger, take your wit, and with some skill and a lot of dedication you might just change some peoples mind on what important news is.
 

Erttheking

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The Lunatic said:
I just find SJWs to be hilarious.

Most of them are incredibly delusion. I don't know what drives people to isolate themselves so far from reality and logic, but, they do.

And it's amazing to watch. Thank you, SJWs. If it wasn't for you guys providing this comedy, life on the internet just wouldn't be as amusing as it is.
#1. It's delusional. If you're going to insult someone use proper grammar.

#2. You're throwing a massive blanket over a massive diverse group. Do you not see the problem with that?

#3. Insulting someone you disagree with reflects poorly on you.