I think Microsoft are scared about the 'Death of PC'

[Something Amyss]

Amusingly enough, it's actually Tuesday here.

As it was here.

Does that joke count as retro?

I think it counts as a fossil. Let's see if there's enough viable DNA to clone it!

I swear the only reason nobody comments on "dick moves" made by Apple and Google is that neither one has an 's' in their name to snarkily replace with a dollar sign. (Although I guess in the UK we could do App£e or Goog£e.)

Nah. Far fewer people do $ony than Micro$oft. It's just a trend. People still hate Google and Apple, though ironically far less than Microsoft even for the same tran$gre$$ion$.

Hell, Compare $teve Job$ to Bill Gate$. One is a saint despite being a hostile dick, and the other's a dick despite his work for charity.

$ee al$o: $team v just about anyone else.

OT: The PC isn't going to die out any time soon. The number of business users is massive, and the vast majority of them aren't going to switch away from Windows without a real change in the market. Linux machines are unpopular with the average office worker and Macs are too expensive.

And people tend to be more familiar with Windows, anyway.

Plus, there are benefits to desktops tablets and the like don't have in a workspace.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

They are hoping to fade out all laptops and desktops at my work, because it's a lot harder to take information off the devices onto pen drives or CDs

That is so, so dumb.

Oh it's even stupider than that; we focus on mainframe programming with Cobol: A system that is designed for pretty much 100% keyboard input. What am I supposed to do with a bloody touchscreen?
I don't even know.

 

[acosn]

PC gaming isn't exactly dying, considering that it's been gaining lots of market share in recent years. The indie market is growing, new venues for funding and selling games are opening up, and Steam is solid as a rock.

It may very well change in form, but only to a degree where it will still retain its functionality. And if you're looking for traditional PC functionality, it's just a huge waste of money to invest in a tablet when a laptop (or desktop) gives you the same performance for less money.

Only reason the PC market is growing is because Microsoft and Sony ignored all good data on what happens to late-life consoles and made absurd expectations that the 360 and the PS3 could have more than ~3 or 4 good years of sales. Sony flat out said it wanted the PS3 to last a fucking decade.

The market is changing, but PC gaming isn't really going anywhere. How and what gets marketed however....

 

[flarty]

I think you're confusing anger with jaded apathy.

It's like Republicans still making jokes about Clinton's penis. It's just so overdone and out of context these days.

Really you call that being apathetic? you seemed to jump straight on the joke.
I'm English, so i wouldn't know anything about Clintons penis.

Components have started evolving horizontally than laterally. Processor speed at about 4Ghz has been normal for a while - but my first PC had a 133Mhz processor, and I remember when the 1Ghz came out probably 7 years later. That's an 8-fold increase in raw power, and you're not reading about 32Ghz processors these days, are you? No, because we've reached atomic-level barriers, and the way around those barriers is to simply add more processors, more RAM, or more components (Quad-SLI!). New nVidia cards have more RAM and loads of processors, but the frequencies aren't increasing.

Whether the console domination of the market is a correlation or causation with the barriers hit by desktops I won't say, but an important thing to remember (which my sarcasm was pointing out) is that Smartphones and Tablets are totally real personal computers. They're smaller, lighter, mobile, and all that - and a lot of enthusiasts sort of pretend they aren't because they're used to tower setups.

You need to read up on metamaterials. Also a good few years ago sony managed to clock there cell processor in at 6ghz while using 40% less power iirc before they ceased all R&D on the cell processor. So its possible to keep pushing the envelope, but nothing is going to be made in term of money until the software side catches up, creating a demand for such hardware. Thats why amd's octo-cores don't really impress all that much. No application is developed to handle that many threads. This is nothing to do with console domination, but general user habits. Which is why tablets and smart phones are becoming more dominant in peoples every day computing use. For example more people googled via smartphone than desktop this year driving their profits down this year. Also no one is denying they are personal computers, just the term PC is predominately used to describe a desktop set up, as smart phones and tablets used to predominately describe them devices, their should be no confusion over this.

I have a Nokia Lumia 710, so I'm well aware. And while Windows Mobile (which is a separate OS from Windows Phone) has been around for a while, touch screen phones have not been pervasive. Windows 8 is the first Windows OS tailored towards touch screen devices, like tablets and phones - their first earnest foray to do so.

Windows 7.5 was a solid mobile OS designed for smart phones with a touch screen interface, it was just a late comer, that's why it under performed. To say that windows 8 is them getting it right is stupid since they even transferred the metro UI from 7.5.

I agree, but you made the same mistake the OP made. They're not pushing the Metro UI on anybody's desktop. They're not forcing you to buy it, and even if you get it with a brand new desktop you can just install an older version of Windows.

That's what I don't get. It's an OS designed for touch screen interfaces, and MS saying "It's for desktops too!" is just marketing bull (sort of like Apple trying to make every version of the iPhone seem different and unique). If you're not going to use the computer via a touch screen, then just skip Win8 and continue using Win7. I know I will. If I upgrade anything to Win8 it will be my Asus tablet, and I'll probably leave my tower running Win7 unless I'm really impressed.

The power behind a complaint rises or falls in direct proportion to how easily you can avoid the trap. If MS decided to make Windows 7 use Metro UI through a Windows Update, then there'd be a lot more veracity to the OP. They're not, though. Don't like Metro UI? Don't buy Windows 8. Bam, complaint nullified!

So your saying, the fact people who buy a new desktop then have to pay to downgrade is not forcing their new OS on the market? That is assuming that these people know how to install a different version of windows. Also i heard that all win7.5 devices will not be compatible with win 8, not sure how much truth there is in that.

But i like how you compared microsoft to apple, since thats who they seem to be trying to imitate since losing market dominance.

My apologies. I'll follow the example you've set of asking the other person to act better before immediately insulting them twice in a row.

Sorry i didn't realise i was being offensive. It was unintentional. But as i said, there's no need to be obnoxious.


Sorry if some of this post does not seem coherent its late and I'm tired and I'm off too bed

 

[Griffolion]

A PC is a personal computer. Any computing device, smartphone, laptop, tablet, etc that is personal to you is a personal computer. So no, the "PC" isn't dying.

If we're talking about "Windows" dying. Then also, no. Yes, changes in interaction paradigms have forced a shift by Microsoft, which is what we're seeing in Win 8 and WP8. But that's a far cry from "dying". The conventionally thought of "PC" (IE a tower with monitor etc) may lose the limelight, but there will always be a need for it. Laptops will always be needed to provide desktop like power in a portable way. And despite this "revolution of touch" we are seeing at the moment, many people still appreciate the tactile manner of a keyboard and mouse/trackpad. Until Android and iOS sort themselves out, tablets and smartphones will still primarily be "play" devices, with the ability to log in to your secure enterprise email system being the only real productivity feature. The first tablets to truly be classed as an actual "productivity" device will be the Surface and other Win 8 tablets sporting Intel insides where your tablet device could be running full Office, Visual Studio and all the other x86-64 software known to Windows. Win RT is a waste of time, but MS needed to do it to please the ARM crowd.

And Microsoft abusing their monopoly to force shifts of usage paradigms in order to be strong in another market? Gee, that's something totally unique to Microsoft and isn't at all employed by the likes of Apple & Google.

 

[thesilentman]

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Last time I checked, the definition of "fixing" is not, changing my opinion into yours.

They already stopped supporting XP, I do have a problem with Vista (or is that a lame joke about 7 being vista?).

Honestly, I dont think anything can kill the PC, especially not TABLETS. That shit is a fad IMO, just like Netbooks. But we shall see. I hate how the "future" seems (to me)to be "less intuitive control schemes."

Welcome to the concept of a strawman, cloroxbb. And yes, tablets can go eat a dick. Try imagining MS Office on a tablet. Yeah? Well, that's some corner Microsoft burrowed themselves into should they choose to continue this Metro craze.

OT (again)- I also remembered that Steam is coming to Linux. Can we all just start dancing now? There will be no way the PC will die, not when it's more convenient to use one as a gaming machine than an actual console at this point.

 

[clippen05]

Consoles are over 7 years old. They are laughingstocks now. Any PC now can out perform a console. Especially now that the market opened up through casual and social gaming.

The thing is a console costs less than a semi decent graphics card, so while the PC outperforms it the console wins on price. The same can probably be said for the next generation, there are serious concerns from the console manufacturers about the current economic climate and they do not want to release a £400 or $600 console again. If consoles can hit the £300 or so price point that's only the cost of a high end GPU, and I am betting the console graphics will be looking pretty good next gen and not a whole let less than most gaming PCs (look at the Steam survey most machines are not fire breathing monsters, in fact the graphics they could render probably dont look a whole lot better than consoles produce now).

Yeah, I guess consoles are cheaper by themselves, but when you start adding games and xbox live, the costs easily balance out.

Xbox- $200 currently I think?
Live- $60 a year for five years (the number I'm using for this comparison) so $300
Games- 5 a year sounds about average, maybe less, but I'll use 5 at $60 each. (Gamestop, Target, etc. rarely lowers there prices, unless you count $5 off for used games:\ or you wait 2 years) So $1500 for 5 years with 5 games

Total: $2000

PC- Middle-High quality PC $1000 but can easily be less
Games- Can be anywhere from $60 to $10 depending on the current sales (AAA titles), we'll average it at $30 for the Steam Holiday sales and Summer Sales. 5 years is $750

Total: $1750

While I know I didn't use statistics, this seems pretty fair for the costs I believe. If yo use PS3 its a bit more even as they don't have live costs but their console is more expensive by default. So, PC's are more costly? Yes, the hardware is. But the software will always be cheapers; ALL HAIL GABEN; STEAM <3

 

[thesilentman]

snip

snip

Last time I checked, the definition of "fixing" is not, changing my opinion into yours.

They already stopped supporting XP, I do have a problem with Vista (or is that a lame joke about 7 being vista?).

Honestly, I dont think anything can kill the PC, especially not TABLETS. That shit is a fad IMO, just like Netbooks. But we shall see. I hate how the "future" seems (to me)to be "less intuitive control schemes."

Welcome to the concept of a strawman, cloroxbb. And yes, tablets can go eat a dick. Try imagining MS Office on a tablet. Yeah? Well, that's some corner Microsoft burrowed themselves into should they choose to continue this Metro craze.

OT (again)- I also remembered that Steam is coming to Linux. Can we all just start dancing now? There will be no way the PC will die, not when it's more convenient to use one as a gaming machine than an actual console at this point.

Bolded, ELABORATE Por Favor.

[link]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man[/link]

Tl, dr version: someone who takes an argument that happens to be a distorted version of your argument.

Please don't hurt me. D:

 

[SciMal]

Really you call that being apathetic? you seemed to jump straight on the joke.
I'm English, so i wouldn't know anything about Clintons penis.

Then it's the equivalent of making Margaret Thatcher jokes.

Yes, that's apathy. If I had cared deeply about what the OP said, you'd see a lot more links flying and better analysis.

You need to read up on metamaterials. Also a good few years ago sony managed to clock there cell processor in at 6ghz while using 40% less power iirc before they ceased all R&D on the cell processor.

I know about metamaterials, but it doesn't really matter if you can't buy the thing, does it?

Windows 7.5 was a solid mobile OS designed for smart phones with a touch screen interface, it was just a late comer, that's why it under performed. To say that windows 8 is them getting it right is stupid since they even transferred the metro UI from 7.5.

Stupid? Because Win Phone 7.5 couldn't be improved? Right... I didn't say Win8 was completely original. I said it was their first serious attempt at a touch screen interface for mobile devices. Win Phone 7.5 is good, but it has its problems and was more an experiment than anything else; a transitional product.

So your saying, the fact people who buy a new desktop then have to pay to downgrade is not forcing their new OS on the market? That is assuming that these people know how to install a different version of windows. Also i heard that all win7.5 devices will not be compatible with win 8, not sure how much truth there is in that.

Power Users will have a previous copy of Windows and know how to install it. Since most of the complaints about Win8 come from Power Users, I seriously don't see the problem. Don't like it, don't keep it.

For the average Joe who just needs to watch movies, surf the internet, and use Microsoft Office - maybe play a few games - Win8 will be perfectly fine.

But i like how you compared microsoft to apple, since thats who they seem to be trying to imitate since losing market dominance.

MS never had dominance in the smartphone market. Before Apple it was BlackBerry. For desktops, they're still dominant.

The leader is always imitated. Why do you think you have a right-click with Apple mice these days?

Sorry i didn't realise i was being offensive. It was unintentional. But as i said, there's no need to be obnoxious.

I never said I was offended, but if you honestly think what you said at the end didn't contain insults, then you have some things to sort through. Like why you're being extremely passive aggressive and don't feel comfortable expressing your distaste for others.

There's no need to be obnoxious, true, but given that the OP set precedent for sardonic posts, I don't mind indulging.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

There's no reason why tablets won't take over desktops eventually. A computer is a computer is a computer, in a sense. Anything a PC can run can be ported to a tablet OS.

I'm almost be willing to bet that instead of proper laptops and desktops, in ten years we'll be using tablets that dock to base stations. You'd be able to use detachable keyboards, mice, and screens, but a portable, more energy efficient device would run the show. ARM tablets use a minuscule faction of the power that tower PCs or even laptops consume. It'd be able to switch interfaces and run all the shit you can use now.

Which is why Microsoft and Apple's attempts to monopolize software distribution on their tablets is so worrying. What would happen if Microsoft decided that they don't want you using LibreOffice on your Surface 10 tablet? There are even more seemingly benign actions these gatekeepers could take that could have dire consequences. Ban everything that has obscenity? Companies don't want to be linked with certain controversial topics that excite vocal minorities. I think people should be able to decide what's permissible in a society, but corporations should not be our gatekeepers.

 

[manaman]

I'm reading a lot of "I don't know how to fully utilize a tower PC and so believe they are only for games."

Sure other words are actually used, but the gist of most of what I read follows that line of thought. I currently have four tower PCs. One is no longer in use and I am deciding if I want to give it away or find another use for it.

Currently I have an HTPC hooked up to the main TV in the living room. I have a gaming rig hooked to multiple monitors. I have my older gaming PC which is lacking a little in power to play current games, but not in power to use as a secondary HTPC in the bedroom. The last box is a home office computer.

All of these units are specialized, which is where the plain old fashioned tower PC works it's magic. Even if some of them are in fancy cases and use small form factor components they are still build'em yourself PCs.

 

[J Tyran]

Consoles are over 7 years old. They are laughingstocks now. Any PC now can out perform a console. Especially now that the market opened up through casual and social gaming.

The thing is a console costs less than a semi decent graphics card, so while the PC outperforms it the console wins on price. The same can probably be said for the next generation, there are serious concerns from the console manufacturers about the current economic climate and they do not want to release a £400 or $600 console again. If consoles can hit the £300 or so price point that's only the cost of a high end GPU, and I am betting the console graphics will be looking pretty good next gen and not a whole let less than most gaming PCs (look at the Steam survey most machines are not fire breathing monsters, in fact the graphics they could render probably dont look a whole lot better than consoles produce now).

Yeah, I guess consoles are cheaper by themselves, but when you start adding games and xbox live, the costs easily balance out.

Xbox- $200 currently I think?
Live- $60 a year for five years (the number I'm using for this comparison) so $300
Games- 5 a year sounds about average, maybe less, but I'll use 5 at $60 each. (Gamestop, Target, etc. rarely lowers there prices, unless you count $5 off for used games:\ or you wait 2 years) So $1500 for 5 years with 5 games

Total: $2000

PC- Middle-High quality PC $1000 but can easily be less
Games- Can be anywhere from $60 to $10 depending on the current sales (AAA titles), we'll average it at $30 for the Steam Holiday sales and Summer Sales. 5 years is $750

Total: $1750

While I know I didn't use statistics, this seems pretty fair for the costs I believe. If yo use PS3 its a bit more even as they don't have live costs but their console is more expensive by default. So, PC's are more costly? Yes, the hardware is. But the software will always be cheapers; ALL HAIL GABEN; STEAM <3

You can pick up AAA console games much cheaper than that, online retailers like Amazon buy the games wholesale and decide the price. After six months you can grab them for as little as £15 to £25 ($25 to $40). Some games can be cheaper sometimes, still not a match for Steam prices but does anyone really compare to Steam.

The other problem with PCs is so many people are unable to build one, this means that if they want a gaming rig they usually let a company like Dell/Alienware rummage around in their wallet (they don't leave much behind) or risk going to a cowboy one man outfit. This pumps up the price dramatically, a PC that would run all current games at max specs and costs around £800 ($1300) costs over £1200 ($2000).

Which is a shame really, building a PC is not hard. It is easy to learn how because all you need to do is watch or read some guides and pay attention to the manual that comes with the motherboard, that will tell you what plugs in where. Difficulty wise its like a cross with Lego and assembling flat pack furniture.

Consoles are well priced and convenient, unless Sony, M$ and Nintendo drop some major bollocks with the next gen machines and services the same will apply too. Still the PC is the better platform, so I too join you in saluting Lord Gaben.

MS never had dominance in the smartphone market.

Microsoft pretty much did dominate the smartphone market before they where even called smartphones, Blackberrys where seen as a oddball niche phone with a funny control system. Nearly every device like the endlessly repackaged HTC devices (HTC made them but they where slightly different for differant operators and not badged as HTC) like the HTC Magician all ran Windows mobile. This was several years before the iPhone was even an idea but those type of phones where seen as things for business people and not as day to day phones for everyone else. Microsoft never capitolised on this and missed the boat when smartphone use exploded.

 

[Violator[xL]]

I thought PC gaming was dying too, a few years ago. Now I'm quite convinced of the opposite actually.

 

[Sindwiller]

]I thought PC gaming was dying too, a few years ago. Now I'm quite convinced of the opposite actually.

Thanks to indie game developers And WoW... and LoL and HoN... and other Blizzard/Blizzard-ish games.

 

[Heronblade]

Desktop computers are going nowhere. They are still the primary mainstays for nearly all businesses, and they will always have a MASSIVE advantage for any serious user over all mobile counterparts in terms of flexibility and repair, not to mention visual and audio quality.

Speaking for myself, I own one laptop, one android smartphone, and one desktop. All three are configured to share critical data on a cloud sync, allowing me to swap between them on the fly, for both work and play.

But when I am not mobile, it is always the desktop I return to, it is more comfortable to use, no matter what I am doing, and is far more reliable than the other two, in spite of the desktop being an amalgamation of relatively cheap parts and the other two having been top of the line market purchases.

The only market I see desktops really losing out on are casual media users. People that don't actually need a computer, just a mobile entertainment and communication system. Even the businesses that can benefit from using tablets and similar systems have much to gain by keeping desktops as the mainstay.

I hope the market keeps going the way it is, that way eventually I'll get a personal HUD for everyday mobile functions, but such can never entirely replace the advantages of a stationary platform.