I Want to Understand the Struggles of Asexuals

[Dizchu]

Asexuality is a thing, it's not a debate. It's well-known that one of the most frustrating things asexuals have to deal with is having their sexual orientation dismissed, not just by the larger heteronormative society but by LGBT people too. I actually remember around a year ago having to defend the legitimacy of asexuality from someone insisting that sexual urges are universal, and hearing nonsense like "asexuality is a mental illness".

That said, I am not an asexual. Nor do I fall on any part of the "asexuality spectrum". However, I'm confused about why asexuality is so commonly associated with LGBT struggles. To a certain degree I understand, it's a widely misunderstood sexual orientation (much like homosexuality, bisexuality and so on). But on the other hand, what struggles are there apart from the annoyances that come with asserting your lack of sexuality? I'm talking generally here, I know things like "corrective" rape and sexual assault happen. But do they face discrimination the way groups classically defined as "LGBT" do?

I'm trans and I'm a vegetarian. The former group faces harassment, intimidation, discrimination and even threats of violence. The latter group faces ignorance, pressures to change and ridicule, but aren't discriminated against. At the moment I see the frustrations asexuals deal with to fall more in line with the latter category than the first, but I'm sure there's more to it than I'm suggesting.

So if you fall on the asexual spectrum or know someone who does (enough to give a semi-confident answer), is there anything you feel necessitates the classification of asexuals as a "protected class" or something similar?

 

[Barbas]

I think there are more than a few people on this site who'd answer as such, judging by the responses to the last thread about it. I imagine they face their share of misunderstanding, frustrations and discrimination, but even though it varies on an individual basis I would be surprised if it approaches what gets thrown at transgender people; they really seem to get the shit end of the stick with a suicide rate of, IIRC, about 41%.

I'd say proper sex and gender education and support would do more good than putting someone in a protected class in the long term, though. It's a miserable experience to be shunned or disowned by friends and family, and simply being able to sit in the same room as other people who you know share your thoughts and feelings is an immeasurable weight off the mind. Classifying someone as a protected class, though, is something I think may end up convincing others to be more guarded and give them a wider berth for fear of causing offense, which I think would be counterproductive. Anyway, the term seems silly; aren't we all part of a protected class in some way or another?

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Asexuals have romantic orientations, which can and often does put them in the G and B group as well (and so they face the same exact challenges as those groups).

Aside from that however, asexuality is not well known outside the internet so people don't really have the opportunity to discriminate in the more traditional ways. That being said, it's extremely common for people to outright refuse to date asexuals on that basis alone and this fact is not something that can be easily hidden when an asexual decides to date (the subject of sex inevitably will come up, there's no avoiding it). You've already also mentioned corrective rape and sexual assault, toxic relationships are common, I don't really see how that doesn't count as traditional discrimination.

You won't find very many examples of systematic oppression because asexuality is just not known by the "system", I wouldn't be surprised though if that were to change as society becomes more aware of it. Male asexuals in particular have a rough time because men are stereotyped by society to want to have sex as much and as often as possible to the point where anything affecting the sex drive of a man is considered a medical issue, even if it doesn't cause distress. furthermore, even if a male asexual is heteromantic, he's not having sex with women, therefore he's assumed to be gay and so subject to the discrimination gay people face.

---

I had never had sex until I was 25[footnote]I'm female btw, this statement is not related to the above about male asexuals[/footnote], despite the fact I was perfectly healthy and there was nothing associated wrong with my hormones, I've had several doctors wonder what the hell was wrong with me, ask me extremely personal questions under the assumption that I must have gone through a traumatic experience, which has left me "damaged".

 

[Zontar]

I think the first step in getting asexuality accepted by wider society is to deal with the fact that at the moment the vast majority of people who claim are asexual are not. I've met all of one asexual in my life (met him in high school, one of the best friends I had from that time) and sure it's real but outside of him every single person I've met who claim to be asexual are very obviously not. This is probably why most of society and a large part of the LGBT community doesn't think it's real, because their experience with people claiming to be asexual is probably almost entirely with people lying about being such.

It's like how Trans people have to deal with things like demisexuals and pansexuals, if those are the only type of people someone has come across of course they're going to think it's fake, it's a result of everyone they come across being fake.

I blame Tumblr. I don't know why, but that site's rise in popularity happened at the exact same time we saw the rise of the faker (not sure what to call the type of person who is cis but pretends to be something else to be honest, but there's enough of them that we need a term for it)

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Asexuality is a thing, it's not a debate. It's well-known that one of the most frustrating things asexuals have to deal with is having their sexual orientation dismissed, not just by the larger heteronormative society but by LGBT people too.

If anything it's a lack of [sexual] orientation.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Asexuality is a thing, it's not a debate. It's well-known that one of the most frustrating things asexuals have to deal with is having their sexual orientation dismissed, not just by the larger heteronormative society but by LGBT people too.

If anything it's a lack of [sexual] orientation.

You're not wrong, it depends on how you want to look at it, but that doesn't change the issue.

 

[Dizchu]

You've already also mentioned corrective rape and sexual assault, toxic relationships are common, I don't really see how that doesn't count as traditional discrimination.

By "traditional discrimination" I mean having rights taken away or withheld. I understand it's a semantic distinction though, a culture of sexual entitlement does result in occasional hostile attitudes towards asexuals.

If anything it's a lack of [sexual] orientation.

Eh, it can be defined either way. It's like saying "black" is a colour when it can also be seen as the absence of colour.

I think the first step in getting asexuality accepted by wider society is to deal with the fact that at the moment the vast majority of people who claim are asexual are not.

Got any stats to back this up?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

If anything it's a lack of [sexual] orientation.

Eh, it can be defined either way. It's like saying "black" is a colour when it can also be seen as the absence of colour.

It is exactly that - the absence of color/light.

 

[Fappy]

Asexuality is weird because a lot of people who think they are actually just have a hormonal imbalance or other sex drive issues. For example, I have a good friend whose sex drive was functional in her youth but birth control wrecked her hormones super hard and now she has 0 sex drive. She claims she's asexual, but after knowing so many women who have gone through the same exact thing I am fairly certain her sex drive would return if she got off the pill (some women respond to birth control differently, so stopping it doesn't garauntee reversal of the side effects).

I think most people who claim to be asexual are in fact asexual, but I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of them just "gave up" out of frustration. Sex dysfunction seriously fucks with people's self esteem, so I don't really blame them.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

snip

If birth control is wrecking someone's hormones, then the prescription should probably be changed. Birth control is often prescribed to correct hormonal issues, not cause them (it's a key ingredient in HRT for example).

When looking at asexuality vs sex dysfunction, the determining factor is whether there's distress. As you just said, sex dysfunction seriously messes with self esteem (amongst other things), asexuality on it's own, does not cause distress.

 

[Twintix]

I had never had sex until I was 25, despite the fact I was perfectly healthy and there was nothing associated wrong with my hormones, I've had several doctors wonder what the hell was wrong with me, ask me extremely personal questions under the assumption that I must have gone through a traumatic experience, which has left me "damaged".

This is a bullshit attitude that I wish would go away. Is the idea of a man not having sex because he doesn't want to have sex really so hard to wrap their heads around?

OT: I'm 21 and have never had sex. Ever. Since I'm female, that'd make me more..."desirable" as a partner in some people's eyes, I guess, but I'm not interested in dating and sex. In fact, I have never even masturbated either. Haven't felt like it. Nor have I ever been in love. I don't know if that's because I'm asexual/aromantic or if I just have a very, very low sex drive, though. Since I've never bothered to find out, my sexual orientation could be anything.

As many problems as Sweden has[footnote]Our government right now sucks, for example.[/footnote], I'm glad that the attitude towards sexuality and gender orientation is generally[footnote]Saying "generally" because, you know, idiots and hateful people exist everywhere...[/footnote] kinda lax here. Neither my family nor my friends have ever pressured me to go out and date somebody and if it turned out that I'm a lesbian or asexual, they wouldn't really care. They're just happy if I'm happy.
(I did have one of my friends ask me "When are you going to get a boyfriend already?!", and a guy friend's grandma once asked him "You're meeting up with her again? When are you two going to start dating already?"[footnote]Our relationship is platonic; I don't have any romantic feelings towards him, and he has none towards me. We're just friends and have been since secondary school.[/footnote], but I don't know how serious they were with that, and they didn't really pressure me, so... *shrug*)

 

[Dizchu]

Asexuality is weird because a lot of people who think they are actually just have a hormonal imbalance or other sex drive issues. For example, I have a good friend whose sex drive was functional in her youth but birth control wrecked her hormones super hard and now she has 0 sex drive. She claims she's asexual, but after knowing so many women who have gone through the same exact thing I am fairly certain her sex drive would return if she got off the pill (some women respond to birth control differently, so stopping it doesn't garauntee reversal of the side effects).

Hmm, I do believe that a lack of sex drive caused by hormonal imbalances still counts as "asexuality". Even if it's caused by artificial means, lack of sexual attraction is lack of sexual attraction. Actually, asexuality can't be a conscious choice otherwise it'd be called celibacy instead.

I think most people who claim to be asexual are in fact asexual, but I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of them just "gave up" out of frustration. Sex dysfunction seriously fucks with people's self esteem, so I don't really blame them.

I think those who "give up" on sex can be considered asexual or celibate, the things that differentiate the two groups can be indistinct. If they still have sexual urges but actively avoid satisfying them, they'd fall into the celibacy category. If they've become so numb to sexual thoughts that they don't find anyone sexually attractive, I think they classify as asexual.

When looking at asexuality vs sex dysfunction, the determining factor is whether there's distress. As you just said, sex dysfunction seriously messes with self esteem (amongst other things), asexuality on it's own, does not cause distress.

Damn, that's a great point I totally overlooked.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Well being that I'm asexual, panromantic, and trans, I tend to have a rather unique experience.

On the subject of asexuality, I've never really been discriminated against for it, at least when it comes to things like rights being withheld, or violated. When the subject comes up, more often than not people just dismiss it. Some of the people I know who are lesbian or gay tend to accuse me of being sexually confused, some such nonsense. Still when it comes to me being asexual people take it less as; "I'm not interested in sex", and more as; "I'm not interested in sex with you". Overall my experience is that people tend to be more accepting of the idea of asexuality, very much more so than homosexuality, and more so than even bisexuality. I think because they tend to equate asexuality with celibacy, which even if they don't understand it, they'll take it as acceptable. Mostly the problem I have when it comes up is that people accuse me of lying about my sexuality.

On the other hand, being panromantic gets more vocal dismissal, in not some outright hostility. Mostly, though, I thin that's because people have a very difficult time separating romantic feelings from sexual ones, and separating romance from sex just in general. Still most people get past that without much issue, except for accusing me of being gay, or bi, or what ever. When it comes down to it the only thing I've ever been truly harassed, or denied rights for, is being trans. Through out my life, my experience has been that's the one people just refuse to even tolerate.

 

[Zontar]

Got any stats to back this up?

Simple observation. I know I know, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but it's hard to get stats on a group which mathematically aren't considered to be big enough to mark as anything other then an appendix to a larger group which itself makes up less then 1% of the population. Hard to get hard numbers on things like that for obvious reason.

 

[McElroy]

Frankly and unfortunately in my mind an asexual man (can't really say about ladies) is broken. The situation is sort of possible to imagine, I've been a child without a sex drive too, but if a dick doesn't get hard at times then it's broken. But again I don't know any asexual guys - probably never will - (they would be too afraid to admit it anyway) so the mindset doesn't have to change. It really is that easy to think asexuality is just some thing people sometimes talk about in the internet.

So as far as the topic goes, in my quest for greater understanding I kinda echo the general statement, but for me asexuality stands on the far fringes.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Frankly and unfortunately in my mind an asexual man (can't really say about ladies) is broken. The situation is sort of possible to imagine, I've been a child without a sex drive too, but if a dick doesn't get hard at times then it's broken. But again I don't know any asexual guys - probably never will - (they would be too afraid to admit it anyway) so the mindset doesn't have to change. It really is that easy to think asexuality is just some thing people sometimes talk about in the internet.

So as far as the topic goes, in my quest for greater understanding I kinda echo the general statement, but for me asexuality stands on the far fringes.

What you're missing here is something very important here. Being asexual does not mean that arousal doesn't happen at all, it means that speaking from a sexuality stand point that; sex is unimportant, uninteresting, or/and undesirable, as in a lack of sexual attraction period. Erectile dysfunction isn't the same thing as asexuality, because people with erectile dysfunction still feel sexual attraction, they just have problems acting on it, because of sexual dysfunction. Being asexual doesn't mean a person, in this case a man specifically, is broken, all it means they don't feel sexually attracted to anyone in particular.

 

[Dizchu]

The situation is sort of possible to imagine, I've been a child without a sex drive too, but if a dick doesn't get hard at times then it's broken.

Ehh, that's not really what asexuality's all about. The body can be "aroused" as a reaction to external stimuli without the mind necessarily being "aroused". For example, people can be raped and still display physical signs of arousal like getting an erection, lubricating, and so on. Similarly erectile dysfunction and lack of sex drive aren't mutually linked either.

Simple observation. I know I know, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but it's hard to get stats on a group which mathematically aren't considered to be big enough to mark as anything other then an appendix to a larger group which itself makes up less then 1% of the population. Hard to get hard numbers on things like that for obvious reason.

Oh I understand that the stats to back something like this up are hard to compile, but it's a pretty big claim.

 

[sky14kemea]

I don't feel we're a "protected class". We're just a sexual orientation like any other on the list. The spectrum is so varied anyway that there are even different types of asexuals. (Like ones who can feel romantic attraction instead of sexual).

Frankly and unfortunately in my mind an asexual man (can't really say about ladies) is broken. The situation is sort of possible to imagine, I've been a child without a sex drive too, but if a dick doesn't get hard at times then it's broken. But again I don't know any asexual guys - probably never will - (they would be too afraid to admit it anyway) so the mindset doesn't have to change. It really is that easy to think asexuality is just some thing people sometimes talk about in the internet.

So as far as the topic goes, in my quest for greater understanding I kinda echo the general statement, but for me asexuality stands on the far fringes.

I wanna back up what Kyuubi said and say that asexuals can still feel arousal and even have an active libido. It's just usually not a reaction to another person that causes it.

To try and simplify it. If you looked at someone you found attractive you could say you found them "sexy". An asexual could find them physically pleasing but having sex with that individual wouldn't cross their mind.

That's not to say asexuals can't or don't ever have sex. Some probably take part to please their partners (and because it would still feel good due to having the ability to get aroused). It just isn't something asexuals would probably find as important in life.

Although I am asexual, I want to stress that the above doesn't apply to every single other asexual. It's just a general understanding from me.

 

[1981]

I'm not asexual and I don't know anyone who is (apart from some Wrong Planet people), so take this for what it is.

I'm trans and I'm a vegetarian. The former group faces harassment, intimidation, discrimination and even threats of violence. The latter group faces ignorance, pressures to change and ridicule, but aren't discriminated against. [...]

I agree that it's not something that can be used as basis of discrimination. Gays aren't being discriminated against because of their identity, but because their lifestyle is seen as a threat. That's why the "don't ask, don't tell" mentality works. Where does not having sex put you on the lifestyle spectrum? Single? In a sexless relationship? In situations where relationship status matters, the reason isn't asexuality.

A part of the problem is that the term isn't even properly defined. Sexual orientation boils down to what turns you on. There are people who say that "all women like looking at Victoria's Secret shows because reasons that don't mean they're gay". I don't. I feel nothing when I look at or think about a female body. I (have been told I) hit on people indiscriminately and can consider a romantic relationship with another woman, but not sex. For asexuality to be a sexual orientation, it would have to refer only to those who have an average sex drive but aren't attracted to male or female physique.

If the lack of a sex drive is caused by a disorder or an external cause such as medication, it's a symptom or a side effect. It's not a question of whether a particular symptom causes distress but that it's caused by a disorder that should be treated to prevent other issues. I can picture asexuality being such a big part of someone's identity that they'd opt out of treatments to preserve it. Or at least feel existential panic.

I was going to make this a narrative post by saying something about getting so carried away thinking about male bodies that it took about 14 minutes to reach the *ahem* conclusion, but I thought it would be inconsiderate. Like biting into a big, juicy steak in front of a vegetarian. That kind of thinking is wrong, isn't it? And the core of the problem. I'll go whip myself now.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Aside from that however, asexuality is not well known outside the internet so people don't really have the opportunity to discriminate in the more traditional ways. That being said, it's extremely common for people to outright refuse to date asexuals on that basis alone and this fact is not something that can be easily hidden when an asexual decides to date (the subject of sex inevitably will come up, there's no avoiding it).

The rest I see the problem with easily, but I'm not sure what the problem is with that? If one person wants sex in a relationship and the other does not I think it would be a fairly reasonable basis for a relationship not to occur?

Frankly and unfortunately in my mind an asexual man (can't really say about ladies) is broken. The situation is sort of possible to imagine, I've been a child without a sex drive too, but if a dick doesn't get hard at times then it's broken. But again I don't know any asexual guys - probably never will - (they would be too afraid to admit it anyway) so the mindset doesn't have to change. It really is that easy to think asexuality is just some thing people sometimes talk about in the internet.

So as far as the topic goes, in my quest for greater understanding I kinda echo the general statement, but for me asexuality stands on the far fringes.

Like... really? Not wanting sex makes someone "broken'? I rather think they aren't and to say it does is the result of the breakdown of reason. It suggests we are supposed to have sex, which is utter foolishness as it suggests some kind of outside purpose.