ICE deports students (after taking their money)

crimson5pheonix

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https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/more-than-250-immigrants-arrested-at-fake-college-set-up-by-ice-in-michigan

ICE set up a fake university to attract people with student visas, then took their visas and deported them. They claim it's okay since the university didn't offer any classes, it should have been obvious that it was fake. Of course, they still charged tuition.
 

Kwak

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What were they doing illegally to be deported? Not going to a 'real' school?
 

TrulyBritish

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Kwak said:
What were they doing illegally to be deported? Not going to a 'real' school?
That seems to be their argument. That because the university didn't offer classes, it was obviously a fake, so students getting legitimate visas to study there were coming illegally, as they were coming to enroll at a university they knew was fake.
 

Nedoras

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This is cartoonishly evil. "Hey lets set up a fake university and lure in immigrants that have student visas. Then after they give us their money, we take their visa and deport them while pocketing the cash". Not only that, but their defense is that the people trying to enroll into their scam were committing a crime because it was a scam, and therefore should have their visa taken away and deported. Absolutely amazing. If justice were a living being, it'd laugh in their faces before catapulting them into a fucking volcano. Abolish ICE.
 
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It amazes me how much America turns into the Proto-Empire (with our sith lord being orange instead of grey) and Republicans are just fine and dandy with it.

It comes to a point when you can't claim ignorance anymore or different perceptions... you have to eventually look at the bulk of human civilization recoiling from what you're celebrating and question if you're on the right side of history.
 

Thaluikhain

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ObsidianJones said:
you have to eventually look at the bulk of human civilization
Depending on how you judge "civilisation", that may or may not be true. Plenty of people outside the US wanting their country to follow its lead, and sometimes they get their wish.
 
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Thaluikhain said:
ObsidianJones said:
you have to eventually look at the bulk of human civilization
Depending on how you judge "civilisation", that may or may not be true. Plenty of people outside the US wanting their country to follow its lead, and sometimes they get their wish.
That's why I said Bulk.

Most people are apart of the Lowest Common Denominator. People who are so engrossed in their own lives that they genuinely don't have the energy to actively wish ill upon others and are mildly pleased when positive things happen to other people, but not overjoyed so that it's their only thought.

Most people don't care enough to do harmful things to others. And generally don't appreciate dick-ish behavior, and have no problem calling it out.
 

CaitSeith

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Government sponsored conmen. This isn't even searching for illegal immigrants in USA; this is tricking people outside of USA into illegal immigration (and don't give me the "they knew the school was fake" shit; lots of fraud agencies make their money by tricking people with even less). ICE should be shut down and their members put into trial for this shitty scam.
 

Agema

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crimson5pheonix said:
https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/more-than-250-immigrants-arrested-at-fake-college-set-up-by-ice-in-michigan

ICE set up a fake university to attract people with student visas, then took their visas and deported them. They claim it's okay since the university didn't offer any classes, it should have been obvious that it was fake. Of course, they still charged tuition.
Well. If the students spent several weeks / months enrolled with nothing happening I'm sort of inclined to think ICE has a point. I'd at least expect the prospective students to be complaining or otherwise asking what the hell is going on. They should have their money refunded, though.

However, on the other hand I don't think you can account for just how clueless or deferent some young people can be, especially when from another country and in a completely unfamiliar environment and facing what they may perceive as authority.
 

Asita

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Agema said:
crimson5pheonix said:
https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/more-than-250-immigrants-arrested-at-fake-college-set-up-by-ice-in-michigan

ICE set up a fake university to attract people with student visas, then took their visas and deported them. They claim it's okay since the university didn't offer any classes, it should have been obvious that it was fake. Of course, they still charged tuition.
Well. If the students spent several weeks / months enrolled with nothing happening I'm sort of inclined to think ICE has a point. I'd at least expect the prospective students to be complaining or otherwise asking what the hell is going on. They should have their money refunded, though.

However, on the other hand I don't think you can account for just how clueless or deferent some young people can be, especially when from another country and in a completely unfamiliar environment and facing what they may perceive as authority.
That's where this starts sounding like entrapment really quickly. The university is set up with a building, advertising, and a website with program details, tuition pricing and campus alerts such as bad weather alerts. It had a Facebook page, a Twitter presence, and was listed as a legitimate school on the Department of Homeland Security's website. They even hired recruiters (whom they are now prosecuting for that same recruitment on grounds of fraud and harboring aliens for profit). Basically, they did everything they could to make this seem like a legitimate institution until after the would-be students actually arrived on "campus". So there's a necessary question of whether these people would have applied to the school if ICE hadn't put so much effort into making it seem legitimate.

Where things get especially dicey, however, is that apparently the students who did realize that this was fishy and transferred out to actual legitimate universities are also arrested and deported for falling for Farmington at all.
 

Seanchaidh

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Interesting that we're only finding out about this now. Anyway, abolish ICE, entrapment and fraud seems to be about all they know how to do.
 

Saint of M

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Well, we now know whats going on the next terrorist mastermind's manifesto.
 

Schadrach

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Agema said:
They should have their money refunded, though.
Property used in or purchased with the proceeds of crime are forfeit. Welcome to asset forfeiture, that thing that's why the police occasionally have to auction off all their drug dealer cars (the car might possibly have been bought with drug money, therefore it's forfeit and sued over that fact, typically the car loses the suit and ends up in the hands of law enforcement). If you can't guess, asset forfeiture is kind of bullshit.
 

CaitSeith

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saint of m said:
Well, we now know whats going on the next terrorist mastermind's manifesto.
Wanna bet? $10 goes into being more white-nationalist bullshit.
 
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CaitSeith said:
saint of m said:
Well, we now know whats going on the next terrorist mastermind's manifesto.
Wanna bet? $10 goes into being more white-nationalist bullshit.
Wouldn't be the same thing?

"These... People are trying to get into our nation and drink us dry of resources without doing a thing. We see that our very Government catches these illegals through stings. They are here now. Are we going to let those who got through take our land?!?!"

Chest Beating, Pure White Blood, Jews will not Replace Us.

Done by lunch time. But it IS mentioned. And White Nationalists ARE terrorist.
 

Agema

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Asita said:
That's where this starts sounding like entrapment really quickly. The university is set up with a building, advertising, and a website with program details, tuition pricing and campus alerts such as bad weather alerts. It had a Facebook page, a Twitter presence, and was listed as a legitimate school on the Department of Homeland Security's website. They even hired recruiters (whom they are now prosecuting for that same recruitment on grounds of fraud and harboring aliens for profit). Basically, they did everything they could to make this seem like a legitimate institution until after the would-be students actually arrived on "campus". So there's a necessary question of whether these people would have applied to the school if ICE hadn't put so much effort into making it seem legitimate.

Where things get especially dicey, however, is that apparently the students who did realize that this was fishy and transferred out to actual legitimate universities are also arrested and deported for falling for Farmington at all.
Urgh. With that extra detail, it's incredibly hard to see how this can be fair or reasonable. It's particularly bad to also remove students who transferred to a legitimate establishment.

I mean, fucking hell, listing an institution as an accredited educational establishment on the government's own website and then nicking people who enrol and arrive at it is about as unreasonable as it gets. Never mind that it undermines the trust in official listings of recognised educational establishments.

Schadrach said:
Property used in or purchased with the proceeds of crime are forfeit. Welcome to asset forfeiture, that thing that's why the police occasionally have to auction off all their drug dealer cars (the car might possibly have been bought with drug money, therefore it's forfeit and sued over that fact, typically the car loses the suit and ends up in the hands of law enforcement). If you can't guess, asset forfeiture is kind of bullshit.
I'm not against asset forfeiture in terms of proceeds of crime, but I think there's a requirement to demonstrate that assets to be seized have been gained through criminal activities. Paying a fee to a bogus university is in no way a profit from crime: quite the opposite, it is being the victim of fraud.
 

tstorm823

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Agema said:
Urgh. With that extra detail, it's incredibly hard to see how this can be fair or reasonable. It's particularly bad to also remove students who transferred to a legitimate establishment.

I mean, fucking hell, listing an institution as an accredited educational establishment on the government's own website and then nicking people who enrol and arrive at it is about as unreasonable as it gets. Never mind that it undermines the trust in official listings of recognised educational establishments.
This scandal broke like a year ago, and I remembered a detail that the news doesn't seem to be reporting this time around. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154187

The University of Farmington was set up in 2015 to catch foreign nationals who had travelled to the US on student visas but stayed on by transferring to fake universities and then obtaining work permits through them.

The practice is common enough that US officials refer to such colleges as "visa mills" and the scam as a "pay-to-stay" scheme.
The sting was targeting exclusively people who were already in the US on student visas, set to end soon, and were trying to enroll in literally any accredited school so they could continue living and working in the US. I'm not saying nothing here was wrong, and people who transferred out to real schools I'd say were clearly not committing fraud, but when you read the OP source saying:

The students arrived legally in the U.S. on student visas, but lost their immigration status after it was revealed the University of Farmington was a sham. Many have since been deported back to India.
It sort of make it sound like they were tricking people into coming to America for school just to deport them. They were recruiting people who finished school, left school, or were at a school that wasn't legitimate itself and lost accreditation, and were trying to extend their student visa beyond its intended purpose. The one example the Metro Times mentions specifically, a person paid by the University to recruit more people to Farmington, transferred there because this school [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/inside-the-school-that-abolished-the-f-and-raked-in-the-cash] lost its accreditation.
 

CaitSeith

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tstorm823 said:
Agema said:
Urgh. With that extra detail, it's incredibly hard to see how this can be fair or reasonable. It's particularly bad to also remove students who transferred to a legitimate establishment.

I mean, fucking hell, listing an institution as an accredited educational establishment on the government's own website and then nicking people who enrol and arrive at it is about as unreasonable as it gets. Never mind that it undermines the trust in official listings of recognised educational establishments.
This scandal broke like a year ago, and I remembered a detail that the news doesn't seem to be reporting this time around. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154187

The University of Farmington was set up in 2015 to catch foreign nationals who had travelled to the US on student visas but stayed on by transferring to fake universities and then obtaining work permits through them.

The practice is common enough that US officials refer to such colleges as "visa mills" and the scam as a "pay-to-stay" scheme.
The sting was targeting exclusively people who were already in the US on student visas, set to end soon, and were trying to enroll in literally any accredited school so they could continue living and working in the US. I'm not saying nothing here was wrong, and people who transferred out to real schools I'd say were clearly not committing fraud, but when you read the OP source saying:

The students arrived legally in the U.S. on student visas, but lost their immigration status after it was revealed the University of Farmington was a sham. Many have since been deported back to India.
It sort of make it sound like they were tricking people into coming to America for school just to deport them. They were recruiting people who finished school, left school, or were at a school that wasn't legitimate itself and lost accreditation, and were trying to extend their student visa beyond its intended purpose. The one example the Metro Times mentions specifically, a person paid by the University to recruit more people to Farmington, transferred there because this school [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/inside-the-school-that-abolished-the-f-and-raked-in-the-cash] lost its accreditation.
And instead of being able to work for a legit school with legal documents, that person got tricked into working for a government-sponsored fraud. Private frauds tricking people are already sickening; having ICE behind it just adds the insult to the injury.