ICE deports students (after taking their money)

Schadrach

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Agema said:
Schadrach said:
Property used in or purchased with the proceeds of crime are forfeit. Welcome to asset forfeiture, that thing that's why the police occasionally have to auction off all their drug dealer cars (the car might possibly have been bought with drug money, therefore it's forfeit and sued over that fact, typically the car loses the suit and ends up in the hands of law enforcement). If you can't guess, asset forfeiture is kind of bullshit.
I'm not against asset forfeiture in terms of proceeds of crime, but I think there's a requirement to demonstrate that assets to be seized have been gained through criminal activities. Paying a fee to a bogus university is in no way a profit from crime: quite the opposite, it is being the victim of fraud.
It also applies to assets used in the commission of a crime. In this case, since the idea seems to be that students were signing up to an allegedly clearly fake university (with astoundingly low fees and no course catalog) as a way to get into the country dishonestly in order to illegally immigrate, the funds used to do so would be being used in perpetrating the alleged crime, and thus also forfeit.

As for the requirement to prove that assets seized were gained from or used in a criminal act, they do that by suing the property in question directly, under a preponderance of the evidence standard (which yes, does mean that being found not guilty of dealing drugs doesn't mean your car won't be found liable for having been bought with drug money because the latter allows a lot more room for doubt). Since lawyers are expensive, it typically costs around $10k per item seized and you probably have more pressing legal issues while this is happening.
 

Agema

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tstorm823 said:
The sting was targeting exclusively people who were already in the US on student visas, set to end soon, and were trying to enroll in literally any accredited school so they could continue living and working in the US. I'm not saying nothing here was wrong, and people who transferred out to real schools I'd say were clearly not committing fraud, but when you read the OP source saying:

The students arrived legally in the U.S. on student visas, but lost their immigration status after it was revealed the University of Farmington was a sham. Many have since been deported back to India.
It sort of make it sound like they were tricking people into coming to America for school just to deport them. They were recruiting people who finished school, left school, or were at a school that wasn't legitimate itself and lost accreditation, and were trying to extend their student visa beyond its intended purpose. The one example the Metro Times mentions specifically, a person paid by the University to recruit more people to Farmington, transferred there because this school [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/inside-the-school-that-abolished-the-f-and-raked-in-the-cash] lost its accreditation.
I'm pretty concerned that witnesses in the area apparently reported students turning up with backpacks asking where their university was, because that's not consistent with those students knowing it was a scam. Likewise those who transferred out, because surely they realised something was wrong too.

Secondly, if the government has listed the university as a genuine, accredited institution on a government website... well, shit. How does it then reasonably claim it's obviously not a genuine, accredited institution?

Contextually, there was an issue in the UK that some independent colleges in Oxford and Cambridge were producing literature that made them seem like they were constituent colleges of Oxford and Cambridge universities. Foreign students really were paying and turning up only to realise they were attending institutions incapable of awarding degrees. It might seem obvious to us because we live in countries and are aware of the systems - it's not so obvious to people from very different countries.
 

Gergar12_v1legacy

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It's going to be a wonderful day when these people get fired at their jobs and have to work as security guards.

Also, you're not entitled to a job that causes pain to others, not in self-defense.
 

Thaluikhain

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Gergar12 said:
It's going to be a wonderful day when these people get fired at their jobs and have to work as security guards.
While they are far from the worst victims, I'd imagine it must really suck for the ICE personnel who are there to stop people smuggling drugs and guns across the border. "No, not all of us, some of us deal with real crimes"
 

CaitSeith

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Thaluikhain said:
Gergar12 said:
It's going to be a wonderful day when these people get fired at their jobs and have to work as security guards.
While they are far from the worst victims, I'd imagine it must really suck for the ICE personnel who are there to stop people smuggling drugs and guns across the border. "No, not all of us, some of us deal with real crimes"
Meanwhile other ICE agents have recommended breaking up ICE, because the shift in focus from real crimes to deportations has hurt their ability to conduct investigations.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Anything is legal if the authorities don't stop it.
Just like how fines are a cost of business instead of a punishment if you're making enough money.
 
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altnameJag said:
Anything is legal if the authorities don't stop it.
Just like how fines are a cost of business instead of a punishment if you're making enough money.
More to AltnameJag's point, anything is legal when you write the laws.

Most of us are aware on how immoral this is, CrazyGirl. And simply disgusting. But those in power are getting more brazen because they created of protection that has a President that will ok any stupid laws, A Senate that will back him up, and a Supreme court (that is ok with Gerrymandering as long as it keeps their party in power) with plenty of judges that has the weird frequency of interpreting any matter towards the Bias of the day.

How can we hold them accountable or even condemn this if the 'laws' permit them to do this?
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Sometimes I wonder whether the best thing America could do wouldn't be too just open its borders entirely and hope that better people settle there. Then again, believing that there is such a thing as overall "better people" is probably the wrong way to go about this.
 

CrazyGirl17

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ObsidianJones said:
altnameJag said:
Anything is legal if the authorities don't stop it.
Just like how fines are a cost of business instead of a punishment if you're making enough money.
More to AltnameJag's point, anything is legal when you write the laws.

Most of us are aware on how immoral this is, CrazyGirl. And simply disgusting. But those in power are getting more brazen because they created of protection that has a President that will ok any stupid laws, A Senate that will back him up, and a Supreme court (that is ok with Gerrymandering as long as it keeps their party in power) with plenty of judges that has the weird frequency of interpreting any matter towards the Bias of the day.

How can we hold them accountable or even condemn this if the 'laws' permit them to do this?
...this is why I can't trust people in power. I know not all of them are bad, but it's the rotten ones who ruin it for everyone else...