I'd Like my Legend of Korra, minus the Korra please

Navvan

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Happyninja42 said:
... But she never did, and she's still not trying to resolve anything without violence. She tries to smash it or blow it up first, and then if it doesn't work, she gets mad at someone, yells, and then maybe tries to possibly do something without violence......and then she does shit like verbally and physically assault the Hipster-Bender to make him join them. Because you know, violence solves all her problems. *facepalm*
She tried to resolve that without violence. She tried to appeal to him and when that doesn't work to reason and relate to him. Jumping straight towards violence/force/intimedation was not what happened there. It's just what she fell back on when her limited tool-belt of civil discussion failed.
 

Tono Makt

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LifeCharacter said:
Tono Makt said:
So your problem with Korra is that she's not some Water Tribe stereotype? Really? She can't have a personality more in line with some other elemental stereotype without giving you some massive grievance?
Yes. That's it exactly. You nailed it.

Wait, no. You totally missed the point. My bad.

Why is Korra from the Water Tribe? Other than what she wears and Naga, she have any aspect of her character that is in line with the Water Tribe. Everything Water Tribe about her character is superficial - including her family relationships. The whole of Book 2 with her and the Water Tribes was hollow and bland at best, and outright manipulative at worst. She had no need, as a character, to be personally related to anyone in the Water Tribes for her to take 90% of her actions in Book 2. The whole character feels like they wrote her up as the anti-Aang and just put a Water Tribe skin on her. You could just as easily see Korra wearing Fire Nation garb and riding a Mongoose Dragon or that star-nosed mole bloodhound creature and there would be almost no need to make any changes to the character. So why is she Water Tribe?

Because that's the next Element in the cycle. Air-Water-Earth-Fire. Aang was Air, so the next one had to be Water. That's the only reason she's Water Tribe.

She doesn't need to be a stereotype, but she should have something non-superficial about her that is Water Tribe. And right now? She doesn't.
 

Riot3000

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I like Korra the character sure she is flawed but if anyone of us was characters in fiction we all both have lovers and haters. I still like Korra even though she did my homeboy Bolin so wrong but all is forgiven so leave it in the past.

This and I don't this whole thing about character growth as in expecting the characters to do a complete 180 on their personality and call it growth that is just out there. And the whiney complaints are weird because are characters just suppose to respond to every situation with calm clarity and batman esque back up plans? Where do we draw the line of flaw characters and super Jesus character.

I like that Aang is Aang and Korra is Korra but have their faults but overall I think both characters have been handled pretty well even Korra after that whole love triangle fiasco though it did produce some hilarity.
 

soren7550

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Tono Makt said:
LifeCharacter said:
Tono Makt said:
So your problem with Korra is that she's not some Water Tribe stereotype? Really? She can't have a personality more in line with some other elemental stereotype without giving you some massive grievance?
Yes. That's it exactly. You nailed it.

Wait, no. You totally missed the point. My bad.

Why is Korra from the Water Tribe? Other than what she wears and Naga, she have any aspect of her character that is in line with the Water Tribe. Everything Water Tribe about her character is superficial - including her family relationships. The whole of Book 2 with her and the Water Tribes was hollow and bland at best, and outright manipulative at worst. She had no need, as a character, to be personally related to anyone in the Water Tribes for her to take 90% of her actions in Book 2. The whole character feels like they wrote her up as the anti-Aang and just put a Water Tribe skin on her. You could just as easily see Korra wearing Fire Nation garb and riding a Mongoose Dragon or that star-nosed mole bloodhound creature and there would be almost no need to make any changes to the character. So why is she Water Tribe?

Because that's the next Element in the cycle. Air-Water-Earth-Fire. Aang was Air, so the next one had to be Water. That's the only reason she's Water Tribe.

She doesn't need to be a stereotype, but she should have something non-superficial about her that is Water Tribe. And right now? She doesn't.
... wow. You're just... wow.

Your argument *is* that you want her to be some stereotypical Water Tribe person. That's all you've been saying.

She's known and been trained as the Avatar since she was four. She's going to be influenced by a whole lot of people and ways that aren't Water Tribe. What's next, Roku wasn't angry enough to be Fire Nation? Kyoshi not enduring enough for Earth Kingdom? Kuruk too easygoing for Water Tribe? Yangchen too harsh for Air Nomad?

How about Katara? Sokka? Varrik? Unalaq? DESNA ANS ESKA? TONRAQ? KYA? BUMI? LAST I CHECKED THEY WERE MORE THAN JUST SOME STERIOTYPICAL WATER TRIBE SCHMUCK. WHY NOT ***** ABOUT THEM TOO?!
 

Tono Makt

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LifeCharacter said:
Tono Makt said:
Why is Korra from the Water Tribe? Other than what she wears and Naga, she have any aspect of her character that is in line with the Water Tribe. Everything Water Tribe about her character is superficial - including her family relationships. The whole of Book 2 with her and the Water Tribes was hollow and bland at best, and outright manipulative at worst. She had no need, as a character, to be personally related to anyone in the Water Tribes for her to take 90% of her actions in Book 2. The whole character feels like they wrote her up as the anti-Aang and just put a Water Tribe skin on her. You could just as easily see Korra wearing Fire Nation garb and riding a Mongoose Dragon or that star-nosed mole bloodhound creature and there would be almost no need to make any changes to the character. So why is she Water Tribe?

Because that's the next Element in the cycle. Air-Water-Earth-Fire. Aang was Air, so the next one had to be Water. That's the only reason she's Water Tribe.

She doesn't need to be a stereotype, but she should have something non-superficial about her that is Water Tribe. And right now? She doesn't.
Because that's the next element, and elements should have fuck all to do with your character. If she was from the Fire Nation, how would she be any better other than just being more stereotypically "Fire," even though you say you don't want a stereotype? I also like how you take her struggle over whether to Unite the tribes or side with her own tribe as superficial. Worrying about her dad's involvement in the attack on Unalaaq, or chasing down the judge over sentencing her father, or being really invested in the struggle before any real spiritual problems show up? Totally superficial!

I mean, what the fuck more do you want if not some stereotype? Do you want her to obsess over the Water Tribe (apparently season two's entire plot wasn't enough) even though she's been exposed to Fire and Earth bending masters since she was a toddler? Do you want her to be more reliant on waterbending even though waterbending's pretty impractical in a city and there's no reason for her to be predisposed to that element since she's known Fire and Earth for just as long?
Water bending is no more impractical in a COASTAL city than Fire or Earth bending. And having been born and raised in the Water Tribe - and according to the Wiki, having never left the Water tribe before going to Republic City to train with Tenzin (I got that impression from the show, but I checked the Wiki to see if I missed something. It doesn't look like I did) - yeah, there's a pretty huge reason to be predisposed to that element even though she's been exposed and likely totally mastered earth and fire for years. The Water Tribe, as we've seen in every season we've seen the Water Tribe, is literally made out of ice and water. It's EVERYWHERE, to the point where for many of the things we've seen Earth Benders do in the Earth Kingdom (and everywhere that has earth and stone, really) Korra could more easily do with Water bending. So for her to seem to ignore it is more of an issue than for her to go to Fire and Earth.

Next, yes the whole Water Tribe trouble in Season 2, for Korra, was superficial. She could have been written in almost the exact same way, just with a Fire Nation or Earth Kingdom background and ties to mentors among the Water Benders and it would have had the same general impact. It might have even made more sense given how poorly Korra handled the whole situation from start to finish - if she had grown up in the Earth Kingdom or Fire Nation, with at best only a short time in the Water Kingdom to master her already powerful Water bending, then her staggering failure to deal with the situation makes far more sense.

As for the elements have nothing to do with your character, look at every other Avatar (save Wan, the first Avatar) as a rebuttal. In fact, look at every other bender, particularly in the first series, as a rebuttal. I can't think of a single bender in the first series that isn't obviously a bender of their own element first, then with enhancements from other styles added on top. Katara is obviously a Water bender, even when she's dressed as a Fire Nation girl, but as the series goes on she takes on qualities more associated with Fire and Earth. Toph adds qualities from Water bending. Zuko adds qualities from Water and Air. All are obviously benders of their natural element without being stereotypes.

Even Mako and Bolin have obvious Fire and Earth traits, though not to the same degree as the benders in the first series. Unalaaq was a dark side of Water Bending. Amon was as well, though in retrospect. (until his identity was revealed I was leaning toward either a twisted water bender, someone trained by a water bender in just the physical martial arts, or my dark horse was a non-bender twisting Airbending martial arts techniques to his own purposes, and having discovered something that the Air Nomads were protecting.) Lin Beifong? She's about the most representative bender of her element in the entire second series so far, followed closely by Tenzin and Kya.

The biggest exception? Korra. Korra is one of the few benders who doesn't represent her element first, then display additions from other elements as secondary aspects. Important aspects, yes, and in many ways character defining aspects (Zuko and Air, Katara and Fire), but what aspects of Korra's personality are Water? I don't see any.

soren7550 said:
... wow. You're just... wow.

Your argument *is* that you want her to be some stereotypical Water Tribe person. That's all you've been saying.
You haven't been paying attention. Or you don't know what stereotypical means. Possibly both? I've been quite clear that what I want is something identifiable in her that is Water Tribe beyond her clothing and her animal companion.
Something in her personality, her mannerisms, her approach to problems. I don't expect her to be a perfect representation of the Water Tribe, or even another Katara - but I want SOMETHING of the Water Tribe in her personality. And right now, I don't see anything in her personality that is Water Tribe. I see Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom, and lots of both. The character is developing Air aspects, inconsistently. But Water aspects? Nothing stands out. And that's where I have a problem with Korra.
soren7550 said:
She's known and been trained as the Avatar since she was four. She's going to be influenced by a whole lot of people and ways that aren't Water Tribe.
And she's going to be influenced by a whole lot MORE people and ways that ARE Water Tribe. Given that she was born and raised in the Water Tribe - apparently not going to either the Earth Kingdom or the Fire Nation to train there. So up until the pilot, she had spent her entire life in the Water Tribe. She expected Tenzin to come to her to train her, not that she would have to go with him.

And yet... not a whole lot of influence from the Water Tribe on her personality.
soren7550 said:
What's next, Roku wasn't angry enough to be Fire Nation? Kyoshi not enduring enough for Earth Kingdom? Kuruk too easygoing for Water Tribe? Yangchen too harsh for Air Nomad?

How about Katara? Sokka? Varrik? Unalaq? DESNA ANS ESKA? TONRAQ? KYA? BUMI? LAST I CHECKED THEY WERE MORE THAN JUST SOME STERIOTYPICAL WATER TRIBE SCHMUCK. WHY NOT ***** ABOUT THEM TOO?!
You lost track of your train of thought by this point, didn't you. I'm betting you had quite a few personal attacks in it but you had the good sense to hit Preview instead of Post, thought about it for a few minutes then deleted the personal attacks so that you wouldn't get any sort of reprimand from the moderators, but didn't look at what was left to see if it made sense in any way, shape or form.

Korra is not in the same league as any of the characters you've listed in ALL CAPS. Or the Avatars you mentioned above. Just by including this part to your post you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have entirely, utterly and completely Almost every character you have mentioned is quite obviously identifiable by their birth element first and foremost. (with the exception of Bumi, who takes after his namesake and his father more than anything else, and possibly Desna and Eska who struck me as Ice Benders in the same way that there are Swamp and Sand benders, rather than Water benders.) Each of those characters also displays aspects more often associated with other elements - Katara and Fire. Sokka and Air. Kya and Earth. Toph (not mentioned by you) and Water. You put any of the benders you mentioned in non-traditional clothing and they're still identifiable as their natural element.

Korra? You take her out of the Water Tribe clothing and you would be hard pressed to identify her as Water Tribe in any way, shape or form.


So for both of you, what aspects of Korra's personality do you see as Water Tribe? Not her clothing, not her family - things about her that if you put her in any other clothing would still stand out as Water Tribe?
 

Zeraki

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Wow, some of the people in this thread really need to lighten the hell up. It always boggles my mind how some people have enough energy to be so angry all the time.

Anyway, I've never really had too much of a problem with Korra. The worst thing I can say about her is that she had learned nothing in between books one and two, and the way she acted in the first half of the season 2 really wasn't justified. After the Avatar Wan episodes she changed almost completely and was a much more likable character, which was doubly frustrating because she should have been like from the beginning. The run-in with Amon should have humbled her, but it just didn't.

Book 2 seemed like it was really rushed, which makes sense considering Nickelodeon waited until after the first season was over to green light more(if I remember correctly, it was announced the day of the finale). I do feel it wold have been better if Korra's bending had stayed gone and they could have carried that over into season 2, making her anger issues a little bit more justifiable. Unfortunately at the time for all they knew there wasn't going to be a season 2, so they kind of wrote themselves into a corner.

As far as Korra in Book 3 goes, she seems to be actually picking up her development where she left off in book 1. The lessons she learned in books 1&2 finally seem to be sinking in. She's a lot more reasonable now, she doesn't blow up at Tenzin over the smallest things and she's trying to take responsibility for her actions.

Now that it seems the writers aren't just spinning their wheels anymore and finally seem to know what direction they want to take the series in, I think Korra's character is going to improve exponentially. In just three episodes everyone is so much more likable and interesting, Bolin actually managed to get a huge laugh out of me for once as well.

They couldn't have picked a better title for the first episode of this season, 'A Breath of Fresh Air'.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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ObsidianJones said:
Aang is so human it hurts. He's a kid who was raised a holy monk, but still realizes he's a kid and focuses on that aspect a hell of a lot more than just he's new shiny Wind Jesus.
See what I didnt like is that the writers seemed to "Pity" aang because he was a child. ALL of his choices and struggles involve obvious undeniable moral justification and theres no inner turmoil except for the very last conflict which gets resolved anyway by bending around the universe.

Aang to me represents how we see our past conflicts in the real world. Good vs bad. Freeing people from oppression. A big evil to destroy with no moral questions about whats right or wrong. Aangs story is their version of world war two. A war that, while horrible and destructive, doesnt force the fighters to ask any difficult questions about wrong or right in the day to day fighting.

I would have been VERY interested to see Aang, a child, being forced to make adult moral decisions because he is the avatar. Reality doesnt cut you a break because youre a kid and when youre the avatar you HAVE to accept responsibility for the worlds issues. If those issues are horrifically complex and tricky, tough. Thats how it works. Imagine Aang dealing with the equalist insurgency. Any sort of conflict where the sides are blurred and both have good arguments. That would have added some depth i think. I love Aang but his problems were very straightforward to justify despite being difficult to actually resolve in practice.

Korra represents modern day society. There is no "right side" and "wrong side" (except for season 2, that was Aang esque evil and good). Our wars and conflicts today are bitter and bloody and have sides with ancient grievances, with suffering equal on either party. Whole nations are not the bad guys now, its groups of their own people, insurgents, every day people or small groups of people in power. The state of conflict changed from Aangs day. Its harder now. I think the equalists deserved 2 seasons. It was a great conflict that needed far more resolution and exploration as to why the equalists had a good point.
 
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BiscuitTrouser said:
See what I didnt like is that the writers seemed to "Pity" aang because he was a child. ALL of his choices and struggles involve obvious undeniable moral justification and theres no inner turmoil except for the very last conflict which gets resolved anyway by bending around the universe.

Aang to me represents how we see our past conflicts in the real world. Good vs bad. Freeing people from oppression. A big evil to destroy with no moral questions about whats right or wrong. Aangs story is their version of world war two. A war that, while horrible and destructive, doesnt force the fighters to ask any difficult questions about wrong or right in the day to day fighting.

I would have been VERY interested to see Aang, a child, being forced to make adult moral decisions because he is the avatar. Reality doesnt cut you a break because youre a kid and when youre the avatar you HAVE to accept responsibility for the worlds issues. If those issues are horrifically complex and tricky, tough. Thats how it works. Imagine Aang dealing with the equalist insurgency. Any sort of conflict where the sides are blurred and both have good arguments. That would have added some depth i think. I love Aang but his problems were very straightforward to justify despite being difficult to actually resolve in practice.

Korra represents modern day society. There is no "right side" and "wrong side" (except for season 2, that was Aang esque evil and good). Our wars and conflicts today are bitter and bloody and have sides with ancient grievances, with suffering equal on either party. Whole nations are not the bad guys now, its groups of their own people, insurgents, every day people or small groups of people in power. The state of conflict changed from Aangs day. Its harder now. I think the equalists deserved 2 seasons. It was a great conflict that needed far more resolution and exploration as to why the equalists had a good point.
The points and ideas you bring up are good ones, but the flip side is one of simplicity.

He's just a kid.

I knew what right was and what wrong was by the comics I read at his age. Superman is right because he's the good guy. That means doing the right things. When I became an adult, when I lived in the real world. I saw the reality of the world. While it makes you sick to your stomach, sometimes you need the guy making the evil sounding calls to ground everyone to what's better for the over all picture. The guy from the "2012" who said not to open the doors for the rest of the people who were trying to get in.

He wasn't trying to be an ass. They had a Finite amount of room. a Finite amount of food. They didn't know how long they were going to be surrounded by water. They would be doing the feel good thing, but what happens when the amount of food wanes because there are so many extra mouths to feed. I get that as an adult, when I had to put food in my mouth and I saw a homeless guy. My instinct is to give him what's in my wallet, but who's going to put food on my table. That's a life lesson I had to have on my own.

Aang's never been on his own. He's never really even seen the real world. It went from practicing Air-Bending, Being told he's the chosen one, Captain Americaing his way through time, and still just a boy who knows nothing about the world and strife. Any call he would have made just because he was the Avatar would have been a dangerous and horrible one because he has no idea how the world works.

He's on Comic book level. Good guy does good things. Reality would have taken a life to live, as Korra has. Aang being a little child about things? So real. To be blessed with that responsibility and not even understanding what are these funny feelings in his pants when Katara is around, and THOSE FEELINGS being somewhat more important than the world about to end? So painfully true for a kid who really can't ever know better.
 

Tono Makt

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LifeCharacter said:
Are you ever going to actually read what I post instead of assuming that "Being obviously identifiable as an (Element) Bender" = "Stereotypical (Element) Bender", when I keep on making it clear that I'm not looking for stereotypes? And ignoring much of what else I'm posting? I was thinking of replying point by point in a more organized fashion, but I think I'd just be wasting my time.

At this point I'm wondering if you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No, not trolling - just disagreeing with everything I say for the simple reason to disagree with everything I say. "Mako and Bolin have obvious Fire and Earth traits" in no way means "Mako is a Fire Stereotype and Bolin is an Earth Stereotype", for example, and yet you act as if that's exactly what it means. The facts about the other Avatars doesn't negate their obvious elemental characteristics beyond what you've mentioned, either. Korra doesn't have elemental characteristics of Water, and it seems that your argument is that she's the Avatar, so she doesn't need them... even though every other Avatar we've seen (save Wan) has had a core that is based on their own element while having traits more associated with other Elements to compliment them. You seem to be ignoring that in favour of pointing out how many other traits other benders (pretty much every other bender) has which aren't aspects of their own element. A point I'm in total agreement on - and have never argued otherwise. My argument has been, is and will be that Korra does not have Water characteristics at the core of her character, which is making her unique among the Benders we've seen in Avatar over 5 seasons. This uniqueness among the entire show is standing out to me in a very negative way.

As for where water is when you're in an alley - pretty much anywhere. Behind dumpsters, pooled in eaves that haven't been cleaned lately, in the sewers under the ground (and pulled out through sewer grates or just plain through the earth; it's not like Korra is all that concerned with collateral damage, particularly when she's pretty good at fixing it after if she absolutely had to), in the pipes and other indoor plumbing in the city. Her own sweat is another source, as we saw with Katara on at least one occasion. Or heck, she could pull a Katara and wear a waterskin or other container holding a fair amount of water which she could open when she feels like there's going to be a battle about to happen. Finding water in a Coastal city is absolutely within reason. If the season had been based in Ba Sing Se, I might give the "Can't find water in the city!" argument actual consideration, but for a coastal city with some rather modern technology, it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Heck, if her first instinct in a fight was to pop the cork and pull out a streamer of water, that by itself might have been enough for me to get past this issue. It would put Water bending as her default bending, the one she goes for instinctively because she's been raised in an area where it's easier to bend the ice under her feet than to pull the rocks up through the ice, or to create fire which isn't going to be as easy in the frigid cold of the Water Tribe lands. (That's what I meant about bending in the Water Tribe - she was born and raised there, where she's walking on ice pretty much all the time. Pulling up rocks and earth to bend would almost always involve water bending to get the ice out of the way so she'd be water bending at the same time as earth bending - why bother pulling up a rock that's just going to be pulverized in a sparring match when you can more easily bring up ice that's going to get just as pulverized?) But her first instinct is to use Fire, then if that doesn't work she uses Earth. Maybe - maybe - she uses Water later on, though now that she's become able to actually Airbend, she's as likely to use Airbending as Water bending it seems.

Regarding the superficiality of Korra's connection to the Water Tribe and the rest of that, I did mention a few minor rewrites to the character, so acting like I said it would be exactly the same is disingenuous at best. And as Korra has been written, she has shown that she gets very tied to things very quickly - she fell into becoming the protector of Republic City in the first episode, embraced it for the entire first season and fought hard for the Air Benders and her new friends after barely getting to know them - it wouldn't even need to be written into the character that she could feel the same way about Water Tribe mentors since it's already there. You write it in to flesh things out a bit for the other characters involved and to show their connection to Korra. It could easily be framed as a problem that seems a bit more Black and White than the grey of Republic City, dealing only with the Water Tribe and not a whole bunch of somewhat independent Benders, strange new technology, lots and lots of non-benders in huge positions of power and now with abilities that let them equal benders, etc. So she jumps at the chance to get involved in something worthy of the Avatar AND something she's going to be more comfortable getting involved in.

And I'll ask again - what aspects of Korra's personality are Water Tribe aspects? What part of her personality (not her clothing, animal companion or backstory "I was born in Water Tribe") can be traced back to living her entire life (up to the premiere) in the Water tribe? I see nothing. In Mako I see a Fire aspect of charging ahead, taking command of situations and generally being an active participant in everything he does. This is seen before he becomes part of Team Avatar, when he becomes a police officer and when he's dealing with being stuck in Ba Sing Se. It's not the totality of his character - as you pointed out - but it is a core of his personality that is present at all times; the other aspects enhance him. Bolin is reactive and defensive - he doesn't take command, he reacts to what comes in. He goes back to the tried and true when he doesn't know what to do. (steal food even after being a big star in Republic City and beyond - his cousins have seen his Movers, so his fame probably isn't confined to Republic City) These aren't his only traits, again as you pointed out. But they're present in him at all times.

What aspects of Korra's personality are Water aspects?
 

Tono Makt

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You really, really need to start reading my posts. It's starting to get pathetic just how much you're missing, how many extremes you're jumping to and how you're parroting some of the points I've been making right back at me as if you think those points somehow prove me wrong.

On to the rest of the post! (Also, as an aside - don't copy and paste posts into Notepad or MS Word and they try to simply copy and paste back into the forum. For some strange reason it reads several different kinds of apostrophes and dashes at random times, so I've spent the past 15 minutes trying to hunt down the various ?'s that litter this post in unexpected places, only to have new ones pop up when I copy it back from Notepad into here. Decided it's time to wave that white flag and let the post go without all the corrections.)
LifeCharacter said:
Tono Makt said:
Are you ever going to actually read what I post instead of assuming that "Being obviously identifiable as an (Element) Bender" = "Stereotypical (Element) Bender", when I keep on making it clear that I'm not looking for stereotypes? And ignoring much of what else I'm posting? I was thinking of replying point by point in a more organized fashion, but I think I'd just be wasting my time.
When you take "traits" to mean "they're a stereotype who has to be expressly identified by their element before anything else because that's the only way they can ever be that element" yes, I am going to take that as stereotyping.
Here's a wonderful example of the extremes you're jumping to, showing that you're simply not reading my posts. Having identifiable traits associated with the element they're born into is not stereotyping.
LifeCharacter said:
"Mako and Bolin have obvious Fire and Earth traits" in no way means "Mako is a Fire Stereotype and Bolin is an Earth Stereotype", for example, and yet you act as if that's exactly what it means.
Except "having traits" is a worthless assessment of a charatcer. Everyone has traits of Fire and Earth, because everyone gets angry, or stubborn, or passionate at some point. Mako and Bolin though, if you didn't know what they bended and took away their color scheme, would not come across as their element going off your stereotype test. Bolin is emotional, ostentatious, and passionate, but also well adjusted and easily manipulated, more a mix of fire and water than earth. Mako is calm, collected, and practical, like earth, rather than emotional like fire.
You would have trouble with Mako and Bolin, yes. I did say that, and you keep on acting as if I didn't. The fact that they would be more difficult to determine without their colour schemes doesn't negate the fact that they still have identifiable traits associated with their respective elements.

The facts about the other Avatars doesn't negate their obvious elemental characteristics beyond what you've mentioned, either. Korra doesn't have elemental characteristics of Water, and it seems that your argument is that she's the Avatar, so she doesn't need them... even though every other Avatar we've seen (save Wan) has had a core that is based on their own element while having traits more associated with other Elements to compliment them.
Except only a few of the other Avatars have had their first element at the core of their character. Yangchen isn't a spiritual pacifist at heart who loves all things and has a great sense of humor, she's straightforward and responsible and openly advocates discarding your spiritual needs (by killing someone) for the world. Roku really has nothing "Fire" about him: he lacks any overt passion or anger and comes across much more like air due to being Aang's spiritual guide who was a funloving guy who couldn't bring himself to kill people.
Discarding needs (spiritual or material) is something at the core of the Air Nomads. From what we've seen of the Air Nomads from Aang's time, he and his mentor are anomalies for Air Nomads, who seem to be a fairly serious bunch of people once they grow up. So Yangchen is showing another side of the Air nomads while extending the character to incorporate traits that can be associated with other elements. Roku's backstory makes him out to be a ball of activity and energy, always in motion and always active, as well as one who acted first and thought second even into his old age. When we see him narrating his own backstory he's sorrowful and apologetic for his mistakes, which he also hints that he might have seen if he had been paying closer attention.
And the reason I don't think Korra should have the elemental characteristics of Water is because I don't put character and personality up to inherent parts of bending, but to how they were raised (you'll notice that each element was raised in a culture that reinforced that particular stereotype). Since Korra was raised from age 4 on as the Avatar with all kinds of benders around her and teaching her, there's no reason for her to be overly related to water.
And at least an equal amount of those benders were Water Benders, not to mention her own parents (non-benders, but still Water Tribe). Even allowing for the possibility that Korra has NEVER interacted with the Water Tribe since the White Lotus found her, that she has not played with other water bending children, she hasn't gone to Water Tribe festivals, she hasn't been exposed to any Water benders and Water tribe members outside of her compound, she has still had at least an equal number of Water Tribe mentors. Little - to none - of which rubbed off on her.

My argument has been, is and will be that Korra does not have Water characteristics at the core of her character, which is making her unique among the Benders we've seen in Avatar over 5 seasons. This uniqueness among the entire show is standing out to me in a very negative way.
It'd probably stand out less if you didn't come up with arbitrary reasons why everyone else in the show has their element at the core of their personality despite plenty of them seemingly not.
Almost all of the benders have something of their Element at the core of their personality. Some - Mako and Bolin, as I've mentioned and you've mentioned - don?t have it very strongly. But they do have something there. Not Korra.

As for where water is when you're in an alley - pretty much anywhere. Behind dumpsters, pooled in eaves that haven't been cleaned lately, in the sewers under the ground (and pulled out through sewer grates or just plain through the earth; it's not like Korra is all that concerned with collateral damage, particularly when she's pretty good at fixing it after if she absolutely had to), in the pipes and other indoor plumbing in the city. Her own sweat is another source, as we saw with Katara on at least one occasion. Or heck, she could pull a Katara and wear a waterskin or other container holding a fair amount of water which she could open when she feels like there's going to be a battle about to happen. Finding water in a Coastal city is absolutely within reason. If the season had been based in Ba Sing Se, I might give the "Can't find water in the city!" argument actual consideration, but for a coastal city with some rather modern technology, it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Wow, so Korra doesn't care about collateral damage? I can see why you're so absolutely dumbstruck by her never tearing up the entire fucking city to find a bit of water to throw at people, because you seemed to have missed the entire part where she only tore up infrastructure when she first arrived and when she was having trouble fighting Tarrlok, avoiding it at pretty much all other times. How dare she learn and grow like everyone's bitching about her for not doing if it means she can't waterbend in an area that lacks water (the city being coastal means jack shit when there's hundreds of buildings between you and the ocean)! Water is lacking for the most part (a puddle you have to look for behind a dumpster isn't practical), and earth causes too much damage, leaving fire as the reasonable choice for everyone who's not obsessed with Korra not being enough of a Water Tribe stereotype.
And again with the ridiculous extremes, the continued misunderstanding of either what I'm looking for or what a Stereotype is.

Anyway. She tore up city infrastructure more than just in the beginning ? she was doing it later on as well. Yes, she did get more subtle and concerned as time went on, but it was still a secondary concern for her; if tearing up the street to make a stone barrier was required, she tore up the street to make a stone barrier. There isn't a huge difference between that and pulling up water from underground lines.

As for being hard to find water in a coastal city - it's not. Being a coastal city DOES mean jack shit when it comes to water, and I gave you a few examples of where water could be found. You've just decided to ignore it, and basic climatology, to continue arguing with me.
And, again, firebending is what she just finished mastering. How much time do you think she spent focused entirely on that one type of bending for the sake of training and not using the others at much or at all? Do you think that a few days after you just finished mastering something you can just switch right back into how you were beforehand?
Considering how literally seconds after she uses Firebending, she uses Earth Bending? I think this particular argument of yours wasn't all that thought out. Maybe if the only thing she tried to use in fights (or other actions) was Firebending and didn't switch to Earthbending without an obvious change to her approach, this argument could have some merit. But she doesn't. So neither does it.
Heck, if her first instinct in a fight was to pop the cork and pull out a streamer of water, that by itself might have been enough for me to get past this issue. It would put Water bending as her default bending, the one she goes for instinctively because she's been raised in an area where it's easier to bend the ice under her feet than to pull the rocks up through the ice, or to create fire which isn't going to be as easy in the frigid cold of the Water Tribe lands. (That's what I meant about bending in the Water Tribe - she was born and raised there, where she's walking on ice pretty much all the time. Pulling up rocks and earth to bend would almost always involve water bending to get the ice out of the way so she'd be water bending at the same time as earth bending - why bother pulling up a rock that's just going to be pulverized in a sparring match when you can more easily bring up ice that's going to get just as pulverized?) But her first instinct is to use Fire, then if that doesn't work she uses Earth. Maybe - maybe - she uses Water later on, though now that she's become able to actually Airbend, she's as likely to use Airbending as Water bending it seems.
There's no reason why it would be her first instinct though! She didn't spend the first sixteen years of her life exclusively learning one type of bending like every other person on the planet, so she doesn't have that instinct that you say she must have to be Water Tribe. She's been firebending just as long as she's been waterbending. Instinct for her would say "bend," not "How dare you firebend; find a puddle right now!" Mixed with the muscle memory of having just spent a good amount of time mastering firebending, and she'd go with fire, the practical choice that pisses you off because she should totally use water like every other waterbender.
If either of us are pissed off, it's you - you're the one going off on hyperbolic rants and swearing up a storm while pretty much ignoring what I've been posting like you're too angry to read it. Bit of projection here, it would seem.

And there is every reason why her first instinct could be to water bend ? she was raised in the Water Tribe, in water tribe lands which are on ice, surrounded by water and ice, which have many buildings that are literally made of ice. As I said earlier, for much of her Earthbending it would make more sense for her to try that with Water because it would just plain be more efficient and more practical for her to do it that way. Pulling up a chunk of rock to block an incoming bolt of fire is tough when you have to pull it up through a few feet of ice; pulling up a block of ice to block an incoming bolt of fire is just as effective and much more practical.
This doesn't mean it would have to be her only reflex. It doesn't mean that she can?t work on developing other reflexes more suited to the environment ? there may be water available in the coastal city, but there?s far more Earth, and Fire doesn't have the same need for the element being physically present like Water does. That wasn't the case with Korra ? she started with Fire and Earth and has stuck there until, ironically, she came into stereotypical Water situations (out at sea, in the Southern Water Tribe) where the only bending she could use was Water bending.
Regarding the superficiality of Korra's connection to the Water Tribe and the rest of that, I did mention a few minor rewrites to the character, so acting like I said it would be exactly the same is disingenuous at best. And as Korra has been written, she has shown that she gets very tied to things very quickly - she fell into becoming the protector of Republic City in the first episode, embraced it for the entire first season and fought hard for the Air Benders and her new friends after barely getting to know them - it wouldn't even need to be written into the character that she could feel the same way about Water Tribe mentors since it's already there. You write it in to flesh things out a bit for the other characters involved and to show their connection to Korra. It could easily be framed as a problem that seems a bit more Black and White than the grey of Republic City, dealing only with the Water Tribe and not a whole bunch of somewhat independent Benders, strange new technology, lots and lots of non-benders in huge positions of power and now with abilities that let them equal benders, etc. So she jumps at the chance to get involved in something worthy of the Avatar AND something she's going to be more comfortable getting involved in.
The difference between Republic City and the South in this little rewrite of yours? She's not living in the South, nor has she seen how messed up the South is, nor does the South seem even messed up enough to warrant her getting involved. She wandered around Republic City a bit and found vagabonds, Equalists, and bending gangsters. What's she going to find in the South and why would she live there? A guy who wants to unite the tribe and bring spiritual balance versus people who don't, the exact same situation she had except lacking all the parts that gave her actual emotional investment like her dad being involved or her mom being arrested, or the hope of uniting the tribes and her family together again.
This particular comment of yours makes very little sense, as if you wrote it without actually reading what I posted about other ways to give her emotional investment into the situation. It?s like you're arguing for and against the power of her mentors ? for the power of her mentors when you argue that she?s been surrounded by non-Water benders as mentors for so long that she doesn't have to have any aspects of the Water tribe at all, and then arguing that her emotional ties to her mentors wouldn't be enough to entice her to come try to save their tribe in a time of need. While at the same time arguing that the influence of her parents on her personality is entirely outweighed by the influence of her mentors, but when her parents are in trouble that?s all the incentive she needs to drop everything to go help them.

You're arguing both sides of the discussion ? one side when it suits one aspect of your argument, then the other side when it suits a different aspect of your argument. Side one: The influence of her Earth and Fire mentors is so powerful that any Water tribe aspects that would have come from her Parents and Water mentors is entirely negated. Side two: Her mentors are not nearly as important to her life as her parents and her people, so she would drop everything to come help them where she wouldn't be willing to do the same thing for her mentors.
And I'll ask again - what aspects of Korra's personality are Water Tribe aspects? What part of her personality (not her clothing, animal companion or backstory "I was born in Water Tribe") can be traced back to living her entire life (up to the premiere) in the Water tribe? I see nothing.
What aspects need to be there if you don't believe you have to be some stereotype to bend an element? Especially since she grew up in an isolated compound surrounded by multinational guards and teachers who taught her about everything including waterbending equally that just so happened to be at the South Pole. She didn't spend her first sixteen years ignorant of her power or purpose like everyone else, meaning that she was raised as just another Water Tribe girl. She was raised as the Avatar, the master of four elements and the bringer of balance. She wasn't a waterbender first, then learned the other elements, she knew three of them at once. There's no reason to expect her to be Water Tribe other than the idea that any bender with brown skin must be overly Water Tribe or else they're just wrong.
I wonder what you?re trying to say there. It can?t be that only the Water Tribe has darker skin; after rewatching some of the episodes in Series 1, particularly leading up to the Day of Black Sun, there?s a number of Fire Nation folk who are as dark as Katara and Sokka, not to mention some of the Earth Kingdom folk like The Boulder. Hmmm?

What aspects would I want to have seen in Korra from the beginning? Far more flexibility and adaptation while dealing with problems. She has learned to adapt, but she didn't start that way. Or more persistence when the first approach didn't work rather than giving up so often and getting frustrated. Perhaps being more subtle before she blundered into troubles ? instead of being almost a walking magnet for trouble, have her move around trouble spots then choosing to get involved in an explosive manner. Failing that, having people mention how different she is than they expect a Water Tribe bender to be would be somewhat sufficient ? ?You don?t act like a Water Bender.? ?I'm the Avatar, not just a Waterbender! Gah, am I going to have to beat that into everyone?s thick skull?? And the big one, the one that I've mentioned before and would probably have been able to make me overlook all the other aspects I've mentioned is if she tried to use Water Bending as a default. Even if it was just for an episode or two, where she discovered that it's not as easy to use Water bending in Republic City as it was in her compound at the Water Tribe. Then she could get the double whammy of having an obvious Water Tribe trait while at the same time as growing as a character beyond that trait.

I'm open to other ones; these are just off the top of my head.
 

Aaron Sylvester

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The main issue I have with Korra is that she's just such an absolute TOOL and (as far as protagonists go) completely unlikeable. She's impossible to sympathize with or connect/relate to at any personal level.

People can chant "that's what the writers were going for!" all day, but shit character is still shit.

I guess it's partly due to the fact that ATLA set the standards so high. Previously the excuse was that ATLA got 64 episodes to flesh things out, but there were some filler-style episodes and the characters could've been just as well fleshed-out in 40-50 episodes or less.
Meanwhile LoK is approaching the 30th episode and still nowhere near as good as ATLA was. No I'm not looking through rose-colored glasses, I actually re-watched all of ATLA just a few months ago and all it's strengths still hold up (i.e. I had a blast).

Even Toph is 10x more enjoyable to watch than Korra, and she was a side-character.
 

soren7550

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Aaron Sylvester said:
The main issue I have with Korra is that she's just such an absolute TOOL and (as far as protagonists go) completely unlikeable. She's impossible to sympathize with or connect/relate to at any personal level.

People can chant "that's what the writers were going for!" all day, but shit character is still shit.

I guess it's partly due to the fact that ATLA set the standards so high. Previously the excuse was that ATLA got 64 episodes to flesh things out, but there were some filler-style episodes and the characters could've been just as well fleshed-out in 40-50 episodes or less.
Meanwhile LoK is approaching the 30th episode and still nowhere near as good as ATLA was. No I'm not looking through rose-colored glasses, I actually re-watched all of ATLA just a few months ago and all it's strengths still hold up (i.e. I had a blast).

Even Toph is 10x more enjoyable to watch than Korra, and she was a side-character.
The reason LoK isn't as nearly deep as TLA is because of Nick's jerking the creators around. With TLA, they were given three seasons to work with off the bat, so they could plan accordingly. With LoK however, at first they were only given the greenlight to make a mini series. When they were nearing completion of it, Nick greenlit a continuation, but only for another handful of episodes. Then partway through that, Nick renewed them for another two seasons. It's a miracle that LoK is any good at all.

OT: I love Korra as a character (aside from the first half or so of Book two, where Korra was replaced with crazy Korra). She's about the most human character in the whole Avatar series. She screws up, she tries to right wrongs, she wants to do good, she wants to knock people's heads in, she tries multiple approaches to solve a situation, she expresses joy, sorrow, compassion, frustration, fear, all that good stuff!

As for people complaining about her being bratty, you have to keep in mind that from the age of four until she was about 17, she was pretty much confined here [http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Southern_Water_Tribe_compound], under the watch of these guys [http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/White_Lotus_sentries], to train to become pretty much this [http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/4b/4b5a94a4b29dc270ec298313ddfaa6c18ddf30f9_full.jpg]. Anyone would become full of themselves if their whole lives was that.
 

Vegosiux

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The problem with Korra is that all her trials and ordeals seem to be so...rushed. There's no real time for much development, and in the end she saves the world through a slightly foreshadowed Deus ex Machina.

As a character she's good, but the writers aren't giving her enough meaningful involvement.
 

Aaron Sylvester

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soren7550 said:
As for people complaining about her being bratty, you have to keep in mind that from the age of four until she was about 17, she was pretty much confined here [http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Southern_Water_Tribe_compound], under the watch of these guys [http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/White_Lotus_sentries], to train to become pretty much this [http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/4b/4b5a94a4b29dc270ec298313ddfaa6c18ddf30f9_full.jpg]. Anyone would become full of themselves if their whole lives was that.
And that's the problem. She was written like that. While it's understandable why Korra is the way she is, it doesn't make for a very enjoyable protagonist and thus the negative response from so many viewers and constant comparisons to Aang.
It's not that people don't like overconfident characters, plenty of those in anime. But an overconfident character who throws tantrums, makes irrational decisions and digs herself into deep shit?
And it's not even that, it's how despite ending up in a failed miserable state at the end of Season 1 we saw NOTHING come of it as Aang's ghost fixed everything in a span of 10 minutes. Then in Season 2 we see her go back to being an absolute ***** as if Season 1 never happened. I lost interest halfway through S2.

I feel bad for the writers and the circumstances they were put in and I'm glad that at least Korra managed to take off, but I ultimately judge the final product.

Korra could have been written a LOT better.
 

Redhawkmillenium

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Korra was aggravating to me towards the beginning of Book 2. But I loved her in Book 1 and in the back half of Book 2. I think she has grown, and Book 3 is off to a great start with moving her character forward.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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I feel like the only way you could have not noticed character development in Korra is if you're intentionally overlooking it to still have something to be nerd-upset about. She still isn't Aang, but she seems to have changed more as a character already than Aang did all series (although that's fine, because he was a good character from the start).

It's been said earlier, but I also feel like "not Aang" is more the problem that makes people not like her than "no development". Not being Aang, I will admit, is a pretty big problem though.