I'd Like my Legend of Korra, minus the Korra please

[Redhawkmillenium]

I feel like the only way you could have not noticed character development in Korra is if you're intentionally overlooking it to still have something to be nerd-upset about. She still isn't Aang, but she seems to have changed more as a character already than Aang did all series (although that's fine, because he was a good character from the start).

It's been said earlier, but I also feel like "not Aang" is more the problem that makes people not like her than "no development". Not being Aang, I will admit, is a pretty big problem though.

I disagree with the implication that Aang didn't change much over the course of ATLA. Aang had plenty of development and change. He starts the series with a lot of emotional baggage about how his people got wiped out after he ran away from his responsibility. He comes to accept that it wasn't his fault that the world ended up this way, and there's no way of knowing what would have happened. Whatever the case, he becomes determined to make a difference now. (He spells this out in the Book 1 finale: "I wasn't there when the Fire Nation attacked my people. I'm going to make a difference this time." Aang also deals with fear of the power he wields, accepting loss of something close to him without letting it traumatize him, dealing with the guilt of tremendous failure, etc.

I don't think "not being Aang" should be a problem. Plenty of main characters in other media are not Aang, and they shouldn't be Aang. Neither should Korra. She needs to be evaluated as any other main character would be. Saying she's not as good a main character as Aang is only ever an end result of that evaluation.

 

[jamail77]

So, they had to come up with some way to eliminate the Fire Lord without straight up death. And again, like with season 2 of Korra, I'll give them a bit of slack from the fact that the problems seem to stem from the administrative and business side of things.

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You actually can't blame that on the administrative and business side of things. The creators can be very honest about some of this stuff and have stated that they had planned for the original series to end without ending the Fire Lord's life. That was always something they intended from the start, or so they claim if you want to cast doubt on their statements (like I said, their history on that much has been very honest).

Now, I am aware that you said this right afterward OP:

But I'm basing my statement off the commentaries from the first show, with the developers, and they flat out said "We had to come up with something because Nickelodeon doesn't allow death on their shows." The "and no implied death either" thing is purely speculation on my part, for other elements of the show that seemed to sidestep around the whole "mortally wounded" issue. It could be that implication of death is fine with Nick, but apparently "you show someone flat out killing someone else on screen" isn't.

The thing is that, actually, in the original series, Combustion Man's death, as one of those more ambiguous casualties, was later confirmed to be a final death at a New York Comic-Con by the creators. So, yes your uncertainty on death has a definite answer: It is allowed. The depiction is a whole other story obviously.

OT: As for addressing of the main topic I partially agree...I guess? On the one hand, I appreciated the way the show emulated post Industrial Revolution time and figures and addressed matters the original series poked with a stick a bit, but never really dove into. Couple those two things with the art direction at certain moments and the music and The Legend of Korra has its own charm for me even if that charm is not as strong as the original series' was. It's unfortunate the show didn't really go anywhere TRULY satisfying with some of the serious social and political commentary in both Book 1 and Book 2 (Book 2 may have ended up being overall worse, but I thought it had potential as well). And I thought that Korra's character was a mess as well. It sounded awesome: People were really excited about her as a character, how she was basically going to be the opposite of Aang in a good way. They completely botched it. You can write a character like that, but they still have to be endearing and they still have to be well written hence people were excited for Aang's opposite written in a good way.

The thing is though that I'm on the side of Book 3 overall having more potential and what little we've seen seems to be better including Korra's character. Some of her growth is debatable and she certainly has not grown in certain areas. On the other hand, if I were to match the show up to other works and look for similar visual cues, dialogue cues, and other conveying techniques that are from a literary critiquing viewpoint, for all intents and purposes, universally agreed upon to show a certain thing about a character or the story or whatever I guarantee you some clear tropes would be unavoidable. That's not to decry opinion of course, but changes in the form of positive tropes are changes in the form of positive tropes and some are clear. On the other other hand, I feel kind of bad for writing that as now I feel kind of dismissive of well thought out critiques as if I have some kind of objective eye for literary work. I just could not help it I guess. Sorry.

I guess what really clutched it for me was just hearing certain things being said. It really went a long way to making me more likely to accept or enjoy Book 3. I saw Korra calm down an airbender afraid of his newly discovered abilities although I have to admit, when I first saw the related episode, like a couple of you I did question her statement on the impossibility of removing his airbending. They probably won't explain what she meant by that either, whether he had to accept what the "universe" thrust upon him or whether she cannot actually help take his airbending away (which is a possibility seeing as how she lost connection to her past lives and it was a past life who parted the knowledge of energybending onto her, as shoehorned an ending as that was). Still, that really was nice to see and yet she was still very much her. Then, she upfront told Tenzin that she feels she should be wiser. Yes. Good. Finally, she did not get all forceful on new airbenders until after Tenzin's attempts failed. These are little things and they don't necessarily add up to a huge change in character or mean anything all in that regard, actually, but they are appreciated.

I'm still on the fence about the show, but I'll remain cautiously optimistic. There's certainly still things I don't like. For example, besides what I've already listed, there is the negligence the group, let alone Mako after telling him he'd watch him, directed towards Kai that allowed him to slip away. I've seen people make excuses for that; no, there are no excuses. Most of my remaining beefs just involve nitpicking like that.

It probably would have been easier to sum up my opinion by quoting this guy

I'll admit that I don't like Korra quite as much as some of the rest of the characters of that show, but I still like her.

Gonna kill herself because she lost her bending powers? Don't worry, past Aang will come and give them back. Needs to defeat big bad guy? Korra magically poofs Rava back into existence.

This seems to be a popular opinion on the ending of Book 1. It's not that I don't agree it's a possibility, but I highly doubt she was going to kill herself. She goes to the edge of cliffs and overlooks scenery all the time in the series to think about things or vent frustration. I think it's even more likely she was doing that considering Aang showed up behind her and she thought it was Tenzin at first before she looked. She shooed who she thought was Tenzin off saying she wanted to be left alone. Now, it's not that she would not lie to him: It's just that the way she addresses him and the setting right before that makes me suspect that she just wanted to be by herself, not kill herself.

As for the Raava thing, while I agree it's a bit of an easy cop out it was addressed in earlier episodes that if either Raava or Vaatu was to be destroyed they would eventually re-manifest, from within their opposite no less, as neither of them can live without the other. So, it didn't just magically happen; it was hinted at. Still, the fact that it was Jinora re-manifesting her is definitely when I was out though. I kept watching, but in my head, I was screaming BS to the point I probably should have just quit finishing the whole thing.

The thing about Mike and Bryan is that they seem to be very good at a certain type of world building and vision and fail at other aspects of storytelling, or at least fail at them in certain contexts. From what I've seen on their blogs and personal statements they seem to be a bit isolated from the more legitimate criticisms as well. Not to mention, what success can do on that front and on the inside when co-workers agree with you and refuse to question. Regardless of whether it's your world or not, you can make bad choices for where to take things especially if you are weak in certain areas of writing or if you have lost your touch. The world of Avatar was always more of a team effort to me. Heck, the best episodes of the old series were not even written by Mike or Bryan.

Some people like to blame the fact that there are less episodes or that they weren't expecting to get more Books (seasons) or something along those lines. Mike and Bryan have both come out saying that when Nick liked how Book 1 turned out (or was it turning out? Don't know if it ended at that point) that they had ideas for more stories. I take that as there had already been, at least, a very, very basic plot outline for Book 2 before they even got greenlit. People also tend to seem to forget how long ago the writing of these episodes were finished before they even aired. You do not even have to go look at typical industry standards for similar shows; you can just go to their blog detailing the process and how in advance some things were actually finished. Then there's the fact that they also have come out saying they like the condensed nature of Korra as they believe it allows them to focus and be more concise in a way that is more positive for what they want to showcase in the series. Whether or not, they were constricted in either scenario they have embraced it and even cite it as part of the success. Even in the old series when fans were upset over certain pacing issues and other problems here and there, mostly in Book 3, the creators made statements that showed they saw no such problems and did things the way they wanted to, thinking it turned out better in the end. If you've got beefs with the writing in Korra you cannot place the blame completely on these sort of things.