If a company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it?

Keepeas

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AnarchistFish said:
Depends if you the buy it afterwards should you enjoy it.

I think there are valid reasons for piracy. Just blanket condemning it is close minded and silly.

People comparing this to stealing things like food aren't really giving a good comparison. Food is finite, software availability isn't.
I Agree. It's completely illegal, but pirating is morally a grey area.
There are many different reasons for pirating a game, most of which are morally wrong.
However, I believe there are somewhat Okay reasons.
I think a demo could be an okay reason under a few conditions:
1) There is not an available demo; How else are you supposed to find out if a game is right for you? Reviews?...not always the best.
2) Only play enough to get a taste of the experience; Enough play to decide whether or not the game is right for you.
3) You limit yourself to a very small part of the game; Don't play through the whole game. Weather this means limiting yourself to a certain level cap or amount of play time depends on the game.

Forcing yourself to stop playing at a limit set by yourself takes a lot of self-control, but I think if a person can abide by those rules VERY STRICTLY then it is okay....but I don't think many people could.

BOTTOMLINE: I DO NOT CONDONE PIRACY
DISCLAIMER : I DO NOT CONDONE PIRACY
EVERYBODY : I DO NOT CONDONE PIRACY
 

s0p0g

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déjà-vu.

also, i had this discussion with a friend as well. he is strictly against piracy because when someone produces or provides something i like, it's a matter of honour and decency to repay them (i mean i don't just drive off the gas station, i don't run away from my barber, and neither do i steal bread or clothes or whatever, so why would i steal video games, music or movies? i pay for books, too), same as me, but we both came to the conclusion that "pirating" a game for purposes of testing it is ok. like it? buy it. don't like it? delete it. that simple.
yes, pirating a game when there's no demo is legitimate. (am i getting banned now? oh well.)

if there's no demo, and none of your friends have a certain game, how else would you get to know whether it's worth buying or not?
games cost quite a lot of money, and with increasing restrictions on second-hand deals and thus the possibility to re-sell a game if you don't like it, to get back at least some of the money you wasted, what else am i supposed to do?
it cannot be in the interest of a company that people don't buy games at all just because they have no idea what they are going to get.


someone said that the comparison between stealing physical stuff and pirating software (the former being finite, the latter infinite) is a little off. i don't think so, as software has to be made by a finite number of people who have to make a living, too, just like the farmer, or the salesman, or the taxi-driver, or the soccer player, or the teacher, or the...
 

Rainforce

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"Of course it is ok. It's their job to provide a demo, otherwise they should be legally obliged to allow pirating of any form. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic]"

just to clarify: I know there are a ton of reasons to pirate a game - but pirating is NEVER just "ok". I don't say software pirates should go into jail or should get any other kind of punishment - but the pathetic attempt to justify ones own bad actions is a totally different thing.
 

GrandmaFunk

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Cowabungaa said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Well, anyway, I agree. Wanna try it out? Rent it, not pirate.
There's no rental place over here, and I don't really have gamer friends either. So where does that leave me?
with online reviews, "let's play" type videos and your gut instincts.

in the end, if you aren't sure whether game X will be worth price Y, just don't get it.
 

Fayathon

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Nov 18, 2009
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Rainforce said:
"Of course it is ok. It's their job to provide a demo, otherwise they should be legally obliged to allow pirating of any form. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic]"
YOU FOOL, YOU'VE DOOMED US ALL!

What I don't understand is why demos aren't released for every game, and don't tell me it's too much money, I know how to do a demo without even spending another dime on the game. You all know the tutorial mission in every damned game ever? There's your demo, plain and simple, Oblivion had the sewers, Gears of War (1) had the jail, Half-Life could have used the training course, etc. Shit man even open world games have a tutorial section- see Oblivion again. Again the only time I even consider condoning piracy in any form is to backup/replace a legally purchased copy of the same type (ie: PC to PC) or if the game itself is unavailable for legal purchase (and to a lesser degree to get rid of bullshit restrictions in single player game, I'm looking at you Bioshock).
 

dead.juice

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I doubt anyone has the willpower to pirate a new game to only play the first level/mission, and then delete it until it comes out, so no.
But, if you really love a game coming out, and you think you might have the willpower and morality to pull this off, then speak nothing of it and do the deed.
 

Dense_Electric

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If you pirate it, enjoy it, then go out and actually purchase it, then go right ahead. It's not terribly different from listening to a band on YouTube, then deciding to go out and buy their album because you liked it. It's only fair you be allowed to try it out first before throwing your money at it. That way if you don't care for it, you can simply stop playing and still be in the green (morally, at least), and if you like it, you can make an informed decision to support it.

Now, if you pirate it, decide you like it, and then keep playing it without paying for it, that is the definition of digital piracy and is unacceptable. If you enjoy a work you should always try to support its creator.
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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No.

Having said that, I do believe the company is then at fault, particularly when it comes to PC games where (when coming from certain developers) dropping £30 can potentially be a very large waste of money on something that runs like shit. So whilst they'll have every right to complain, I'll be less sympathetic. They could at least throw together a stress test for people to run.
 

TheLastSamurai14

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Mar 23, 2011
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Fayathon said:
Half-Life could have used the training course.
Half-Life had 2 demos anyway. Half-Life: Day One was the first 5 or 6 chapters of the game, and Half-Life: Uplink was a completely original level that gave you most weapons and featured a ton of different enemy types.

Hell, even Portal and Half-Life 2 had their own demos, but that's just because Valve knows how to do this shit right.

Rainforce said:
"Of course it is ok. It's their job to provide a demo, otherwise they should be legally obliged to allow pirating of any form. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic]"
Gah...want to click...so bad, but...TVTropes!
 

Rainforce

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Fayathon said:
Rainforce said:
"Of course it is ok. It's their job to provide a demo, otherwise they should be legally obliged to allow pirating of any form. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic]"
YOU FOOL, YOU'VE DOOMED US ALL!

What I don't understand is why demos aren't released for every game, and don't tell me it's too much money, I know how to do a demo without even spending another dime on the game. You all know the tutorial mission in every damned game ever? There's your demo, plain and simple, Oblivion had the sewers, Gears of War (1) had the jail, Half-Life could have used the training course, etc. Shit man even open world games have a tutorial section- see Oblivion again. Again the only time I even consider condoning piracy in any form is to backup/replace a legally purchased copy of the same type (ie: PC to PC) or if the game itself is unavailable for legal purchase (and to a lesser degree to get rid of bullshit restrictions in single player game, I'm looking at you Bioshock).
I don't really know, but I assume it really IS due to money/time:
remember how all the big releases are pushed out totally bugged and shit? I suspect that nobody has actually the time to come up with a demo plan, because everyone is busy trying to satisfy the publishers deadline (or, in valves case, don't want the players to wait). So, seeing it from that point of view, it actually can make sense.
 

Fayathon

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Nov 18, 2009
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TLS14 said:
Fayathon said:
Half-Life could have used the training course.
Half-Life had 2 demos anyway. Half-Life: Day One was the first 5 or 6 chapters of the game, and Half-Life: Uplink was a completely original level that gave you most weapons and featured a ton of different enemy types.

Hell, even Portal and Half-Life 2 had their own demos, but that's just because Valve knows how to do this shit right.

Rainforce said:
"Of course it is ok. It's their job to provide a demo, otherwise they should be legally obliged to allow pirating of any form. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic]"
Gah...want to click...so bad, but...TVTropes!
I was just providing examples of completely (or damn near) free ways to do a demo for context in my post, didn't check to actually see if there was a demo for the games I used.

Rainforce said:
I don't really know, but I assume it really IS due to money/time:
remember how all the big releases are pushed out totally bugged and shit? I suspect that nobody has actually the time to come up with a demo plan, because everyone is busy trying to satisfy the publishers deadline. So, seeing it from that point of view, it actually can make sense.
I understand it with that mentality, but I wonder why the hell my idea hasn't taken root, it would take a minimal amount of time to set up a demo like this and it could very well make a good game sell tons better for a minimal effort at best, and I know that publishers are all for making a shitload of extra money for just a little bit spent. Hell demos could be used by players to highlight shit that needs to be fixed in patches before the game releases even, increasing game quality even further.
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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Short answer: no.

Long answer: saying they didn't have a demo so I can pirate it to try it out is a terrible justification. For one its basically saying "unless this company provides a demo which is something extra they must produce which is not required of them at all then I can steal the game to try it out." Secondly, the internet is full of tons and tons of reviews and gameplay videos. Even if you're not playing the game you can do the research to find out what the game is like easily without needing a demo (which are often semi-deceptive on purpose).
 

Dense_Electric

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Jul 29, 2009
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latiasracer said:
No. Ive never driven a Ferrari before, is ok for me to steal one to try it out?
No, but it is acceptable for you to take a test drive in one before you drop $300,000+ on one.

Also (because apparently some people don't understand this basic concept), physical theft =/= digital theft. Ferraris cannot be duplicated instantly, an infinite number of times, for free. Your downloading a game to try it does not deprive anyone else of the ability to play it. Stealing a Ferrari does.

Of course this doesn't excuse pirating a game (or song, or movie, or whatever), but it does give you the right to try it before you buy it. Which is what I think the OP is advocating, "piracy" isn't really the correct term as it implies you don't intend to pay for it. If you buy something, downloading a copy can hardly be called piracy. As long as the creator gets their due, I really don't see what the problem is regardless of how you actually obtain it.
 

Rainforce

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TLS14 said:
Rainforce said:
"Of course it is ok. It's their job to provide a demo, otherwise they should be legally obliged to allow pirating of any form. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic]"
Gah...want to click...so bad, but...TVTropes!
why are you trying so hard to resist? You cannot run forever. There is no escape.
So you could just as well spare yourself the pain and effort and just succumb to your urges.
TVtropes will get you. one way or another.