If DeSantis wins

Silvanus

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No, it really isn't. It's just sugar, like there's sugar in a zillion other things (many of them natural). Basically, eating 50g of table sugar a day isn't really any different from eating 50g of sugar a day from any other sources.
Although the level of difference that Phoenixmgs is talking about is bollocks, and table sugar is categorically not "poison" in any meaningful sense, there are notable differences. Sucrose is significantly worse than monosaccharides for oral health and for streptococcus, and requires a little more energy to break down and absorb; fructose is worse than glucose for triggering genshin and addictive qualities.

But yeah, nutritionally speaking there's very little difference. The biggest discrepancy is in oral/dental health. And by far more important than which kind of sugar you consume is how much you consume. Because the excess will transfer into fat deposits regardless of the source-- and the level of excess is determined by intake and usage.
 

Phoenixmgs

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In other words, you say shit you can't back up, but it's everybody else's fault.



Clearly you did not receive adequate education on the Civil Rights Movement. MLK just as a single example was a radical socialist who advocated for the right to housing and a UBI. He was staunchly anti-war before it was cool to be so. He recognized that race and class are joined at the hip and that race problems are consequently class problems and vice versa. He was arrested for defying police in his protests and took the incarceration as an opportunity to tell white moderates to eat all of the dicks in a letter. He advocated for non-whites to stop supporting a system that had fucked them over from the start. He demanded an end to police brutality and called for a radical redistribution of wealth. The FBI conspired to drive him to suicide, for fuck's sake.

This is why having these AP courses matters. Because white people like you just don't... fucking... get it. And in your case, you will likely never get it.
Nope, you said the law does XYZ, but you can't even copy/paste the part of the law that says that. Somehow I'm the one that can't back up shit?

You didn't mentioned anything about actual socialism...


No desire to be picky, but why does it matter if Greece was the first democracy? I don't think there's anything wrong with learning any of the things you've mentioned, but I don't see what sets them apart from the subjects you don't think should be included.



Funnily, pretty much all of this would be covered by media studies (which was part of my degree many years ago), and you know how media studies is seen ... I don't disagree that these things should be taught, and I don't think rote learning is good either. I just don't see how expanding the syllabus (we could replace origins of democracy tbh) hurts that.

But: when you say that kids have no critical thinking skills, how much of your own ability to deal with those same problems is based on your experience of those problems (or similar ones) rather than your education? I am, to blow my own trumpet, an excellent problem-solver.* Genuinely very good at it. But most of it is because I've experienced problems, struggled through, and then overcome them, so I know better for next time. Nothing to do with my education (which was exactly the names-and-dates education we discussed above).

* This has left me poorly equipped for dealing with unsolvable problems, like people dying.
Teaching Greece was the first democracy isn't a semester long course, you just teach it and move on. Just things on their own might not be important, but how they intertwine can matter. Comparing Greece to our democracy along with other countries of that time ends up being useful. It wouldn't be useful to just talk about say Japan or China's governments/policies on their own but seeing what other countries do (both good and bad, or just different) vs the US is very useful. Showing different perspectives all the time is very good.

High school or college degree? I know in my high school we didn't have a class for anything like that. With regards to critical thinking, it's actually usually punished in many regards. In math, you can't do a problem your own way, you have to do it by the book even if that's the longer way. I was lucky to have an algebra teacher that let me do problems my way; I still recall that I made a program on the TI-83 calculator to do a certain kind of problem that took like 10 minutes and he allowed me to use it on the test because he said that if I could make a program on the calculator to do it, then I understood the process. I then finished a period long test in less than 5 minutes. Whereas my chemistry teacher made us show all the work on our problems that were super basic like changing metric units where you just have to move the decimal point. It's shocking how basically nobody I know can figure out a tip at the restaurant without a calculator, all you do is move the decimal point one over and double it for a 20% tip, super easy math. There's no critical thinking because kids aren't really allowed to because everything is teaching exactly some facts vs teaching concepts. Philosophy would be a good class for high school (not sure it that is in high school now but it wasn't for me) that would allow different thoughts and perspectives and would have very little politics involved.


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Man I'm fucking Irish and I know how important socialism was to the civil rights movement and how deeply intertwined they were.
Socialism was a core component of black people getting their rights? Sure, you might have socialists in the movement but that doesn't make it some key component of the movement. Also, I doubt the class will give examples of capitalist countries doing basically everything King was advocating for today now would it?


Literally nothing I said would constitute a violation of the 14th amendment.

I'm in favour of including study on prominent thinkers and theorists, including those who had opinions that go against mainstream American conservative thought. And if American conservatives believe it would be wrong to exclude American slavers because of their past evil deeds, then-- if they're being consistent, rather than vain hypocrites-- they should also welcome the inclusion of communist and anti-Capitalist thinkers such as those on that list.



Why not? There's a historically highly significant black anti-capitalist movement. The fact you don't know that would seem to indicate that we need better education on it.
I didn't say anything you said, I said things in the course do.

And have kids been taught about capitalism and socialism beforehand to understand the concepts and rhetoric?

The combination of these two bills is frightening. I'm not even joking, I legitimately fear for the average person in Florida if these both pass.


Huh? The jury would still need to find the defendant guilty and sentenced them to a life sentence already. Many states don't require gun licenses, I live in a state that has no gun licenses.


I'd guess that an avocado is probably less like an apple than the fruit of Atropina belladonna is like the fruit of Rubus idaeus. But, you know.



Well, you've certainly never made that specific argument and so I haven't assumed that you think that.



Depends on the apple juice as it can vary, but as long as you're not buying cheap and nasty stuff it's usually got some useful vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, etc.



No, it really isn't. It's just sugar, like there's sugar in a zillion other things (many of them natural). Basically, eating 50g of table sugar a day isn't really any different from eating 50g of sugar a day from any other sources.
What is the avocado's composition that will cause issues to a population that has never eaten them historically? We all know the problem with eating sugars without said fibers. It's a pretty horrible argument saying sugar is fine because avocados are new to humans.

What apple juice is actually good to drink? The label I posted had no added sugars (some apples probably have less sugar, that doesn't make it good to drink). Just because it has vitamins doesn't make it good. Just because you lace cocaine with vitamin C doesn't make it good. Having kids drink orange juice for vitamin C is a horrible idea.

It's about the saying "the dose makes the poison" and having the amount of sugar the average American has is poison.


Although the level of difference that Phoenixmgs is talking about is bollocks, and table sugar is categorically not "poison" in any meaningful sense, there are notable differences. Sucrose is significantly worse than monosaccharides for oral health and for streptococcus, and requires a little more energy to break down and absorb; fructose is worse than glucose for triggering genshin and addictive qualities.

But yeah, nutritionally speaking there's very little difference. The biggest discrepancy is in oral/dental health. And by far more important than which kind of sugar you consume is how much you consume. Because the excess will transfer into fat deposits regardless of the source-- and the level of excess is determined by intake and usage.
"The dose makes the poison."
 

Cheetodust

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I still recall that I made a program on the TI-83 calculator to do a certain kind of problem that took like 10 minutes and he allowed me to use it on the test because he said that if I could make a program on the calculator to do it, then I understood the process. I then finished a period long test in less than 5 minutes.
Today in "No you guys I'm super serious I'm really a very special boy." 😂😂😂😂
 

Buyetyen

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Nope, you said the law does XYZ, but you can't even copy/paste the part of the law that says that. Somehow I'm the one that can't back up shit?

You didn't mentioned anything about actual socialism...
Correction, I said "the Dunning-Krueger effect is..." And I was saying explicitly that many civil rights icons and heroes were socialists who did good. That you didn't know these 2 things were connected shows the education system has failed you.

You make shit up, dude. You really fucking do.
 
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Buyetyen

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Socialism was a core component of black people getting their rights? Sure, you might have socialists in the movement but that doesn't make it some key component of the movement.
MLK was a radical who would fuck your shit up. Malcolm X said that racism and capitalism are inseparable. Socialists helped organize protests, boycotts, meetings and more. That you were ignorant of this is one thing, but now you're just acting like you're entitled to your own facts. Instead of trying to save face, impress us by having the humility to admit, "I did not know that."
 

Silvanus

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I didn't say anything you said, I said things in the course do.
What does?

And have kids been taught about capitalism and socialism beforehand to understand the concepts and rhetoric?
Yes, probably. Things tend to get taught in context. There's no reason to think this is any different. Would you be here asking that same question If we were discussing teaching the Founding Fathers?
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Today in "No you guys I'm super serious I'm really a very special boy." 😂😂😂😂
Making a simple program on a TI-83 is super basic... My only computer knowledge to that point was Microsoft Works, the thing that came before Office.


Correction, I said "the Dunning-Krueger effect is..." And I was saying explicitly that many civil rights icons and heroes were socialists who did good. That you didn't know these 2 things were connected shows the education system has failed you.

You make shit up, dude. You really fucking do.
What about your claim of the Florida law? Still waiting on that "proof"...

Literally...
The Dunning-Kruger effect effect occurs when a person's lack of knowledge and skills in a certain area cause them to overestimate their own competence. By contrast, this effect also causes those who excel in a given area to think the task is simple for everyone, and underestimate their relative abilities as well.

Nothing you mentioned about MLK had anything to do with socialism...

You say shit like some law does something when it fucking doesn't and you can't even copy/paste the text of the law that says that because there is no text that says what you claim.


MLK was a radical who would fuck your shit up. Malcolm X said that racism and capitalism are inseparable. Socialists helped organize protests, boycotts, meetings and more. That you were ignorant of this is one thing, but now you're just acting like you're entitled to your own facts. Instead of trying to save face, impress us by having the humility to admit, "I did not know that."
What the fuck you talking about? The following links says nothing about racism and capitalism.

What does socialism have to do with civil rights movement outside of some of the people being socialists? If there were no socialists in the movement, nothing would have played out any differently.

What does?



Yes, probably. Things tend to get taught in context. There's no reason to think this is any different. Would you be here asking that same question If we were discussing teaching the Founding Fathers?


That's why having a separate class isn't that good an idea because when you are teaching economic systems, you can teach historical figures that were for such systems when you're teaching it. Just like you teach slavery throughout American history or Japanese interment camps during WWII. I know I didn't really have a class going over different economic systems in any detail.
 

Buyetyen

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What about your claim of the Florida law? Still waiting on that "proof"...
Burden's still on you to demonstrate it violates the 14th amendment. I'm going to go ahead and say that you don't even know what the 14th amendment says, you're just parroting DeSantis's talking points because you can't come up with an original thought yourself.

Literally...
The Dunning-Kruger effect effect occurs when a person's lack of knowledge and skills in a certain area cause them to overestimate their own competence. By contrast, this effect also causes those who excel in a given area to think the task is simple for everyone, and underestimate their relative abilities as well.


And you think that first sentence doesn't apply to you. Because you are a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You can't learn anything new because you can't admit that you don't already know everything.

Nothing you mentioned about MLK had anything to do with socialism...

What does socialism have to do with civil rights movement outside of some of the people being socialists? If there were no socialists in the movement, nothing would have played out any differently.
Tell me you didn't read the links without telling me you didn't read the links. I notice you just outright ignored the ones about Malcolm X and socialist organizers. Probably because you possess the intellectual honesty of a Fox News daytime pundit. Here's another link for you to either not read or miss the point of. Direct quote form Malcolm X: "You show me a capitalist, and I'll show you a bloodsucker."

Here's something else for you to not get. That's MLK's letter from Birmingham jail. In it, he describes the white moderate (e.g. you) and how they're about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

Civil rights leaders were radical leftists, and the fact that you're still denying it shows that you bought into the whitewashing propaganda 100%.

I know I didn't really have a class going over different economic systems in any detail.
Then you should probably stop opining on the topic.
 

Silvanus

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You seem to have accidentally posted a YouTube video rather than answering what parts of the curriculum violate the 14th amendment and how.

That's why having a separate class isn't that good an idea because when you are teaching economic systems, you can teach historical figures that were for such systems when you're teaching it. Just like you teach slavery throughout American history or Japanese interment camps during WWII. I know I didn't really have a class going over different economic systems in any detail.
So your issue isn't with the topics, but just the fact it's getting its own course?

Why couldn't they just provide they context in the new course? Why do you assume they wouldn't?
 

Phoenixmgs

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Burden's still on you to demonstrate it violates the 14th amendment. I'm going to go ahead and say that you don't even know what the 14th amendment says, you're just parroting DeSantis's talking points because you can't come up with an original thought yourself.



And you think that first sentence doesn't apply to you. Because you are a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You can't learn anything new because you can't admit that you don't already know everything.



Tell me you didn't read the links without telling me you didn't read the links. I notice you just outright ignored the ones about Malcolm X and socialist organizers. Probably because you possess the intellectual honesty of a Fox News daytime pundit. Here's another link for you to either not read or miss the point of. Direct quote form Malcolm X: "You show me a capitalist, and I'll show you a bloodsucker."

Here's something else for you to not get. That's MLK's letter from Birmingham jail. In it, he describes the white moderate (e.g. you) and how they're about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

Civil rights leaders were radical leftists, and the fact that you're still denying it shows that you bought into the whitewashing propaganda 100%.



Then you should probably stop opining on the topic.
I posted the news segment showing it does, not my fault you didn't watch it. Again, where's the proof Florida's law does anything you claim it to do? Just simply copy/paste the text of the law that says so. What's so hard about that?

Never said that, and in fact said the opposite. Also, you know that Dunning-Kruger has been showed to not to mean anything, right? It's not an actual human bias.

The link you posted about Malcolm X's speech that was supposedly about capitalism and racism (which you claimed) mentioned absolutely nothing about capitalism. Funny how your claims rarely can be backed up by anything. And that quote about capitalism had anything to do with the civil rights movement? The civil rights movement was a movement for rights, not to change the US economic system.

I wrote a paper on the Letter from Birmingham Jail in college...

Nothing you mentioned in the following post about MLK had anything to do with socialism:
Clearly you did not receive adequate education on the Civil Rights Movement. MLK just as a single example was a radical socialist who advocated for the right to housing and a UBI. He was staunchly anti-war before it was cool to be so. He recognized that race and class are joined at the hip and that race problems are consequently class problems and vice versa. He was arrested for defying police in his protests and took the incarceration as an opportunity to tell white moderates to eat all of the dicks in a letter. He advocated for non-whites to stop supporting a system that had fucked them over from the start. He demanded an end to police brutality and called for a radical redistribution of wealth. The FBI conspired to drive him to suicide, for fuck's sake.
I never had a class about economic systems in HIGH SCHOOL.


You seem to have accidentally posted a YouTube video rather than answering what parts of the curriculum violate the 14th amendment and how.



So your issue isn't with the topics, but just the fact it's getting its own course?

Why couldn't they just provide they context in the new course? Why do you assume they wouldn't?
It's in the video...

Why would an African American history course go over in detail different economic systems? Because it's a history class, not an economics course.
 

Buyetyen

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I posted the news segment showing it does, not my fault you didn't watch it.
Tell me in your own words or stfu.

Never said that, and in fact said the opposite. Also, you know that Dunning-Kruger has been showed to not to mean anything, right? It's not an actual human bias.
At this point we really need to tag your goalposts so we can study their migratory patterns.

The link you posted about Malcolm X's speech that was supposedly about capitalism and racism (which you claimed) mentioned absolutely nothing about capitalism. Funny how your claims rarely can be backed up by anything. And that quote about capitalism had anything to do with the civil rights movement? The civil rights movement was a movement for rights, not to change the US economic system.

I wrote a paper on the Letter from Birmingham Jail in college...

Nothing you mentioned in the following post about MLK had anything to do with socialism:
Tell me you're a liar without telling me you're a liar.
 

Silvanus

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It's in the video...
So you can tell me what parts violate the 14th amendment and why you think they do.

I'm not terribly interested in watching whatever long rando online videos have captivated your attention this week.

Why would an African American history course go over in detail different economic systems? Because it's a history class, not an economics course.
It wouldn't be necessary to go massively into depth. Brief overview of the relevant aspects. Half a class session to give context; greater context in other courses if the kids want greater depth. Economics is an inseparable aspect of politics and will be constantly referenced in most history courses worth a damn.

The same kind of context that would be necessary to understand, say, the Founding Fathers. A student in an American history course would need some contextual knowledge of monarchism and the republican movements, and slavery as an economic foundation, to understand the Founding Fathers' writings and rhetoric. So include some context in the course.

Why is this some big issue you're making about specifically these figures and topics, as if the same doesn't apply to anyone in the least bit 'problematic'? I suspect it's because in truth you haven't really thought this through, and just don't want certain topics you don't like in the course, because some right-wing talking heads have convinced you the syllabus is being abused.
 
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Cheetodust

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Why is this some big issue you're making
Honestly he's just made the argument and now, because he has said it, it has become a hill he absolutely must die on because he has a compulsion to stand by every single thing he claims because if he's ever wrong once then he is not the specialist little smart boy who's ever lived and who has made every single conclusion through cold hard inarguable logic. Everything he believes is the result of a calculation from his perfect mega brain and therefore can never be wrong.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I posted the news segment showing it does, not my fault you didn't watch it. Again, where's the proof Florida's law does anything you claim it to do? Just simply copy/paste the text of the law that says so. What's so hard about that?
I mean, we keep posting news articles about schools doing things in response to it, with applicable lawmakers applauding the actions.
 

Trunkage

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I mean, we keep posting news articles about schools doing things in response to it, with applicable lawmakers applauding the actions.
I know this isn't a just Florida thing but teachers and librarians getting suspended and investigated over there being books in the school that were written by the Crash Course guy is peak absurdity

(Well, it should be. It seems we are always at peak absurdity)
 

Ag3ma

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What is the avocado's composition that will cause issues to a population that has never eaten them historically? We all know the problem with eating sugars without said fibers. It's a pretty horrible argument saying sugar is fine because avocados are new to humans.
Okay, let me set this out for you.

Sucrose has been eaten by humans since our species first existed. It was also consumed by our predecessor species, going back probably tens or even hundreds of millions years. The only difference between table sugar and the sucrose from whatever other sources our ancestors ate is that table sugar is refined. It is perfectly, absolutely normal and natural to eat sucrose as part of a standard human diet. As another analogy, your argument suggests no-one should take vitamin pills, because they are consuming industrially-produced and purified chemicals rather than those chemicals created biologically as part of "natural" foods. And that argument is plainly bunk: vitamin pills can be jolly useful.

Table sugar (and many other forms of sugar) become problematic only because they are available in much larger quantitites than our ancestors ate and are prone to overuse, leading to risks of excessive calorie intake, diabetes, tooth decay, etc.

What apple juice is actually good to drink? The label I posted had no added sugars (some apples probably have less sugar, that doesn't make it good to drink). Just because it has vitamins doesn't make it good. Just because you lace cocaine with vitamin C doesn't make it good. Having kids drink orange juice for vitamin C is a horrible idea.
Oh my god. Do please at least try to keep track of the arguments.

It's about the saying "the dose makes the poison"
Sure. In essence, that's what I've been telling you for several posts.

Although I don't think it's useful to call sugar a "poison", as that's more unscientifically hysterical PR than it is truth.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Tell me in your own words or stfu.



At this point we really need to tag your goalposts so we can study their migratory patterns.



Tell me you're a liar without telling me you're a liar.
Once you post me the words of the Florida law that says what you claim it does.

I literally said the opposite...


So you can tell me what parts violate the 14th amendment and why you think they do.

I'm not terribly interested in watching whatever long rando online videos have captivated your attention this week.



It wouldn't be necessary to go massively into depth. Brief overview of the relevant aspects. Half a class session to give context; greater context in other courses if the kids want greater depth. Economics is an inseparable aspect of politics and will be constantly referenced in most history courses worth a damn.

The same kind of context that would be necessary to understand, say, the Founding Fathers. A student in an American history course would need some contextual knowledge of monarchism and the republican movements, and slavery as an economic foundation, to understand the Founding Fathers' writings and rhetoric. So include some context in the course.

Why is this some big issue you're making about specifically these figures and topics, as if the same doesn't apply to anyone in the least bit 'problematic'? I suspect it's because in truth you haven't really thought this through, and just don't want certain topics you don't like in the course, because some right-wing talking heads have convinced you the syllabus is being abused.
You can't watch a short news segment? Also, what problem do you have with that news channel?

I just don't find specific in-depth history of any one people to need a whole class when other more important things aren't being taught (aka opportunity cost).

"My education was poor and has led me to be intellectually stunted later on, why should we fix that?"
Then, why'd I say kids need a class like that now...?

I mean, we keep posting news articles about schools doing things in response to it, with applicable lawmakers applauding the actions.
COPY/PASTE THE TEXT OF THE LAW THAT SAYS THAT.

Okay, let me set this out for you.

Sucrose has been eaten by humans since our species first existed. It was also consumed by our predecessor species, going back probably tens or even hundreds of millions years. The only difference between table sugar and the sucrose from whatever other sources our ancestors ate is that table sugar is refined. It is perfectly, absolutely normal and natural to eat sucrose as part of a standard human diet. As another analogy, your argument suggests no-one should take vitamin pills, because they are consuming industrially-produced and purified chemicals rather than those chemicals created biologically as part of "natural" foods. And that argument is plainly bunk: vitamin pills can be jolly useful.

Table sugar (and many other forms of sugar) become problematic only because they are available in much larger quantitites than our ancestors ate and are prone to overuse, leading to risks of excessive calorie intake, diabetes, tooth decay, etc.



Oh my god. Do please at least try to keep track of the arguments.



Sure. In essence, that's what I've been telling you for several posts.

Although I don't think it's useful to call sugar a "poison", as that's more unscientifically hysterical PR than it is truth.
Why would I be extrapolating that sugar needs it's fiber with it to literally everything else needing to be consumed naturally? Sugar is uniquely digested. If say a vitamin has the same or similar uniqueness of having to be digested in a specific place and then the refined version no longer being digested there, that could obviously be a problem or could not be a problem. It's a super obvious and known problem with sugar. I don't know why you're advocating against basic science. The only reason is you don't want me to be right. Even though it's not even me that researched this and came to these conclusions.


Also, think about your advice on fruit juice. Yes, fruit juice is not as good as fruit because a lot of the nutrition is in the solids that are filtered out. However, a public health body thinking about the lowest common denominator with issues "How do I get them to consume enough vitamin C?" might consider orange juice a pretty good idea, because it's hard to get some people to eat an actual orange.
You literally said this... And it's a HORRIBLE idea that a completely inept public health body would ever consider.

Consuming sugar in the quantities the average person consumes sugar is poison. It's the cause of the majority of disease today. I really don't know why you're acting like sugar is not the cause all these problems.