If DeSantis wins

immortalfrieza

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No, fuck your broken system.
Exactly. The choices might as well be between a guy who murdered 200 people and a guy who murdered 300 people. Even if objectively one party is better than the other both are still godawful whatever semantics anyone tries to put up to justify their choice. America as a whole should've abandoned both parties en masse a long time ago.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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You make 37K a year, are paying a mortgage and life costs, and saved up a 2nd 20% deposit within 12 months of placing your initial? That math isnt mathing.
I never said I saved up 20% in 12 months, I said I have the money to do that. And that is because I wanted to put more down but just started with the base 20% and by the time I got final numbers on everything like taxes and such, it was too late to change the down payment. So the fact that I can put down 20% right now is because I had that money left over vs that I saved up to that in 12 months.

Firstly, median income in the US is ~31k. The mean is closer to ~40k. I earn under the median UK income, because while I work in a technically specialised role, I also work in the charity sector, which is severely underpaid.

So now we can see your solution is to move out of the city. So leave my job and everyone I know. Do you have any solutions that would actually be realistic for my circumstances? No, so stop pretending this is a one-size-fits-all issue.

(Besides which, you made zero distinction between the housing market in Seattle and London, which is kind of silly).
It takes me about 30 mins to get to the Loop in Chicago from where I'm living and I don't even live in Illinois. So, why'd I'd have to give up friends that are 30 mins away (if I were moving out of Chicago)?
 

Silvanus

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It takes me about 30 mins to get to the Loop in Chicago from where I'm living and I don't even live in Illinois. So, why'd I'd have to give up friends that are 30 mins away (if I were moving out of Chicago)?
So... your suggestion is that I move to the commuter belt?
 

Phoenixmgs

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So... your suggestion is that I move to the commuter belt?
I don't know the ins and outs of Britain and London obviously. I just know in America, living in a major city totally isn't worth it (not sure if that's the case for London or say Tokyo or wherever else). With the rise of remote work (a lot city jobs can be done remotely), there's a lot less need to work in a major city, let alone live in a major city. Unless you're really well off, living in Chicago is like having a parasite attached you sucking out money (again, I'm not sure if that's the same for London and other major cities in other countries but it is for America).

Bloomberg estimates that Manhattan workers are showing up in traditional offices 30 percent less than in the pre-pandemic era, mostly Tuesday through Thursday, and spending a staggering $12 billion less per year on meals, entertainment, dry cleaning, and other office-related purchases. The Manhattan office vacancy rate stands at 16 percent — a record high.
 

Silvanus

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I don't know the ins and outs of Britain and London obviously. I just know in America, living in a major city totally isn't worth it (not sure if that's the case for London or say Tokyo or wherever else). With the rise of remote work (a lot city jobs can be done remotely), there's a lot less need to work in a major city, let alone live in a major city. Unless you're really well off, living in Chicago is like having a parasite attached you sucking out money (again, I'm not sure if that's the same for London and other major cities in other countries but it is for America).

Bloomberg estimates that Manhattan workers are showing up in traditional offices 30 percent less than in the pre-pandemic era, mostly Tuesday through Thursday, and spending a staggering $12 billion less per year on meals, entertainment, dry cleaning, and other office-related purchases. The Manhattan office vacancy rate stands at 16 percent — a record high.
Right. Except my work is (in part) technical; I cannot do all of it remotely. And almost all of my working experience is in the same field. It is simply not feasible to move out of the city and then remotely work for a city-based employer: I would need to commute back into the city, extending my commute time by hours.

This is the problem with your simplistic panacea-style solutions. They're not appropriate or feasible for a lot of people, but you don't seem to acknowledge that.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Right. Except my work is (in part) technical; I cannot do all of it remotely. And almost all of my working experience is in the same field. It is simply not feasible to move out of the city and then remotely work for a city-based employer: I would need to commute back into the city, extending my commute time by hours.

This is the problem with your simplistic panacea-style solutions. They're not appropriate or feasible for a lot of people, but you don't seem to acknowledge that.
London doesn't have suburbs outside the city to where it wouldn't take hours to commute it? Also, you said you can't do all of it remotely, meaning you can do some of it remotely, so why can't the job be done if you commuted in say twice a week? I have a friend that commutes into Chicago twice a week and works remote the other days. Also, does your profession not exist outside London or major cities?
 

Silvanus

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London doesn't have suburbs outside the city to where it wouldn't take hours to commute it? Also, you said you can't do all of it remotely, meaning you can do some of it remotely, so why can't the job be done if you commuted in say twice a week? I have a friend that commutes into Chicago twice a week and works remote the other days. Also, does your profession not exist outside London or major cities?
My profession exists... with far fewer opportunities and at lower pay grades outside the cities.

And yes, London has suburbs. Suburbs will provide passengers with transport to terminals only. My workplace is at least two trains away from the nearest terminal, meaning that even moving to the closest suburb possible, I'd be doubling my commute in order to destroy my chances of upward progression.
 

Phoenixmgs

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My profession exists... with far fewer opportunities and at lower pay grades outside the cities.

And yes, London has suburbs. Suburbs will provide passengers with transport to terminals only. My workplace is at least two trains away from the nearest terminal, meaning that even moving to the closest suburb possible, I'd be doubling my commute in order to destroy my chances of upward progression.
But is the lower cost of living actually making you "richer" with the lower pay? At least in America, the higher city pay only makes you poorer. I could make a lot more if I wanted to but my current job is really chill, I don't have to care about being right on time and worrying about being 5mins late, I can take lunch/breaks whenever I want, I can take long lunches (currently on a 2 hour lunch bread right now), the benefits are good (I pay nothing for health insurance out of my pocket, I guess it kinda does since lower pay though), I can basically do what I want when I want as long as I get my shit down. If I want/need days off, I get them without issue. I could easily be making at least 10k more a year if I wanted to doing the same work but I value other things far more than money.
 

Silvanus

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But is the lower cost of living actually making you "richer" with the lower pay? At least in America, the higher city pay only makes you poorer. I could make a lot more if I wanted to but my current job is really chill, I don't have to care about being right on time and worrying about being 5mins late, I can take lunch/breaks whenever I want, I can take long lunches (currently on a 2 hour lunch bread right now), the benefits are good (I pay nothing for health insurance out of my pocket, I guess it kinda does since lower pay though), I can basically do what I want when I want as long as I get my shit down. If I want/need days off, I get them without issue. I could easily be making at least 10k more a year if I wanted to doing the same work but I value other things far more than money.
If you're trying to argue that I'd have more life satisfaction if i took a pay cut and dramatically lengthened my commute by moving out or the city, then no, that's not true. I have lived in rural areas, suburbs, and the city, and I prefer the city.

But that's kind of irrelevant anyway, because your original argument was specifically about the financial cost.
 

Silvanus

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Never said that. I even said I'm not sure if cities outside America like London or Tokyo make you poorer. I just said that you don't have to live in London if you don't want to.
Initially you said that people only rented as a result of being horrible at saving money. Then when I pointed out how inapplicable that was to me, you spent a dozen or so posts arguing about how my situation might fit into your proposed solution, rather than simply acknowledging that it isn't one-size-fits-all and renting isn't always stoopid.

If you only ever intended to talk about your experience of Chicago and its surroundings, you probably should have said that, and then been quiet.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Initially you said that people only rented as a result of being horrible at saving money. Then when I pointed out how inapplicable that was to me, you spent a dozen or so posts arguing about how my situation might fit into your proposed solution, rather than simply acknowledging that it isn't one-size-fits-all and renting isn't always stoopid.

If you only ever intended to talk about your experience of Chicago and its surroundings, you probably should have said that, and then been quiet.
If renting is as expensive or more expensive than buying, renting is stoopid.
 

Silvanus

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If renting is as expensive or more expensive than buying, renting is stoopid.
Right, except (as has been pointed out) in order to buy you need an enormous amount of up-front money.

My rent is more than mortgage repayments in the same area. But I cannot get a mortgage, because I cannot stump up hundreds of thousands at once, which the market has determined is necessary to prove I can afford mortgage repayments. Even though I'm already paying more per month than those payments would be.