Chalacachaca said:
Lightnr said:
Uhhhhhhhhh ARE you SERIOUS???
They should say something on the spot!
If for nothing else - the other person needs to know that they are with someone they cannot reproduce with.
Chalacachaca said:
Yes, I want to have kids someday and it would be quite akward if Sandy can't conceive because she was born as Andy.
Lol. Oh right. How silly of me.
Because the first thing anyone does when they meet a prospective partner is ask if they're fertile right?
Because everyone, everywhere will blurt out within 5 seconds of meeting someone that they are infertile, and cannot have children.
You know, yes, that's important. If you're in a long-term relationship.
But does telling someone you're infertile immediately oblige you to tell them in exact, painstaking detail, why that is the case?
Meh. ;p
Well if we're in a long-term relationship then yes, I believe I have the right to know in painstaking detail why my partner is infertile.
I could go on about how I do indeed ask someone if they're fertile almost straight away but I would go off-topic.[/quote]
Mmm. Well, that's very interesting. It sounds like a really strange way to behave, but hey, if you ask those kind of questions, so be it.
Odbarc said:
CrystalShadow said:
Odbarc said:
Would you keep dating a woman who was born a man?
Would you date the person if they said they were a man before you started dating?
"I'm a man. Want to have sex?"
Lol. But no transsexual would say that, because no transsexual thinks that way about themselves.
You (and those making comments like you are) are missing a crucial point in that regard.
You're asking someone to tell you they are actually a man, but they don't think they are.
So... You are in a way asking them to be 'honest' with you by telling you something that in their own opinion is a lie.
How is that supposed to work exactly?
I am a woman who was born without a vagina or uterus.
I am a woman who was born with a penis and testicles.
I am a woman who had her penis and testicles surgically removed or altered to appear like vagina.
I require taking pills to look feminine or I grow a beard.
I am a woman whose name used to be Jim.
That's great, but why would you say any of those things at random to someone?
the first doesn't answer anything. (Believe it or not that happens for other reasons too.)
the second and third are just ridiculous ways of saying things, and again I don't see anyone saying that unless asked outright.
the fourth is factually incorrect. (And assuming you've had surgery, and no longer have your original genitalia, the effects of not taking those pills would be quite different... Not to mention that most of the effects take months if not years, and quite a few are permanent. - Once you have breasts, they're not going away again, for instance.)
Again, why would anyone say anything like that?
All quite ridiculous things to say.
Aside from which it requires the following mindset:
1. I am something unusual
2. People could react badly to this.
3. I should tell people how odd I am because of how they might react.
It requires as a first step that you constantly remind yourself that you're some kind of freak others might not approve of.
That's the problem I find with this. Having to tell someone is not a problem as such.
But having to spend all your time thinking of yourself as a freak, in case someone else takes offence to you forgetting that you're not normal is not a particularly healthy thing to be doing.
Telling someone what you are if they ask about it is one thing.
But 'lies of omission' depend on the person's self-image being messed up.
It would require pre-supposing everyone you meet is going to care so much about this that you have to go out of your way to point it out to them.
I don't consider that an acceptable requirement to burden someone with.
bahumat42 said:
racrevel said:
Sonic Doctor said:
By nature, the "woman" was a man. By my standards, with the info revealed, no amount of work will convince me that "she" is a real woman. The only person it would be unfair to is me, if I had been lead on into such a relationship.
That scentance alone just shows that you really don't understand and probably never will, the problem is how you see yourself and not with them and the one really being unfair is you.
There is no leading on, you met them as a woman, inside and out they are a woman, and a genetic defect doesn't make them any less of a woman, past is of no concequense.
Also your makeup argument is flawed, you are purposefully trying to deceive at that point, had you had plastic surgery it would be different and you wouldn't need to lie as it would be your actual face, If the girl you tried to get with Was actually a man and was just tucking it in maybe your point would be valid...
Not so, your past stays with you, want an example, one of my good friends recently changed from being Jewish(some of the stereotypes are true) to atheist. He is always going to have certain traits from having grown up Jewish.
The way you were nurtured and brought up stays with you to some extent whoever you are. And in most of the world boys and girls are brought up slightly differently. And that differentness is apparent in how people act, so even if you could magically change all the biological and physical differences, there's still the matter of psychological state and how they were socialised when growing up.
Its where things like "men are from mars women are from venus" and "a leapord can't change it's spots" come from.
That goes both ways I'm afraid.
While your past never goes away completely, you also never stop changing.
This inevitably implies that a transsexual will probably have a mixed psychological state, which doesn't quite match either.
Socialisation doesn't just stop at some arbitrary point in time; It's an ongoing thing. So you can't just dismiss a person's more recent experiences in favour of their distant past.
(Not that even that is always so clear. That depends both on how strictly your environment enforced gender roles when you were young, and how you were perceived as a child; physical sex characteristics in children aren't all that distinct.)
Besides, a lot of research shows psychological effects from physical causes are stronger than most people typically want to accept.
Many transsexuals can recount from first-hand experience just how much of an impact changes to your hormonal balance have on your state of mind...
It disturbs certain groups of people to accept this, but the way it affects your emotional state, and even the way you think in general is far from trivial.
But whatever. As usual it's just the kind of thing where people make an effort to argue why their own point of view is valid.
The truth of the matter is a transsexual, both physically, and psychologically, is not quite the same as either sex.
Arguing they are now their new gender, or insisting they are still their old one is mostly a matter of perspective, because the only truly accurate answer is that they are neither, or something that consists of a mixture of different traits.
Then again, very few people are clearly one thing or the other when you get right down to it. People aren't homogeneous interchangeable objects. Everyone is different, and no-one has a clear set of characteristics that are exclusively and 100% unique to a given gender.
Lunncal said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
Lunncal said:
Morally obligated, yes, definitely. If it gets anywhere beyond just flirting, anyway.
You might not think it is important, but there is a very high chance that your potential partner will think it's important, and it should be his/her right to choose. If you're worried that they might not want to be with you if they find out, then DON'T BE WITH THEM. It's their right to decide.
And maybe they don't feel comfortable telling the person yet? Just because someone might care does not mean that it isn't also very private information they might not feel comfortable sharing with others until they get to know them quite well, especially consider the general attitude towards transsexuals.
If they really can't tell anyone that, then they shouldn't date anyone, ever. Or they should get to know the person well enough to tell them *before* dating them. Certainly before having sex with them. Tricking someone who wouldn't want to sleep with you into sleeping with you is WRONG. It's like a (relatively mild but still very bad) form of sexual assault.
Ah, but see, I disagree entirely. About the sex bit anyway.
Mostly because it's not a trick. And I don't buy any argument that implies it is.
Besides, it makes no sense in general. They clearly
would want to sleep with you, all else being equal, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to get you to...
Well, anyway, Something about the logic behind this just doesn't add up.
Now, I certainly don't think it's a good idea to keep something like this to yourself in a long-term relationship.
But sex? I don't see why that is anything significant.
(Of course, perhaps that's circumstantial. I've never tried to get anyone to have sex with me. It's always the other way around.
How can you 'trick' someone into having sex with you, if they are the ones making all the effort? If they weren't pushing for it, it would never have happened in the first place, yet you're implying it's sexual assault because I'd let them get what they wanted without explicitly telling them something that might change their mind?
No. Sorry. I don't get it. Seems like a complete perversion of everything.)