If You Don't Believe in Evolution, Why?

Snack Cake

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orangebandguy said:
Sorry, it's just that you're new to the forums, and people sometimes start trolling because they don't know any better. I'm sorry for judging you. :)
Fair enough. I've been reading the Escapist quite a while, but tend to be more of a lurker than a commenter. If I wanted to start flaming, I'd probably bring up L4D 2 or MW 2.
 

Kajin

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wouldyoukindly99 said:
Because it directly threatens the concept of how religions think the world was created and it offers the idea that maybe we aren't as special as we think we are. I also hear people say that they can't believe they came from apes. Just look at a Chihuahua, they are descended from wolves and they barely resemble them.
I don't get this. Seriously, I don't.

Most modern day religions were founded hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago as an attempt by primitive society to come to terms with their place in the universe and to explain why things were the way they were. The earth revolves around the sun. We know this now, but they didn't know it then and that is why it was so highly contested when it was first introduced. Do you think the christians of 100 BC could have figured out on their own what made the world tick? No, they couldn't have, because they didn't have access to the knowledge that took us 1900 years to accumulate. Their solution to this? Make stories explaining their existence with what limited knowledge they had.

I might actually believe that Jesus himself knew what things would be like today. How are you gonna say that he didn't know? You weren't there 2000 years ago, were you?
 

Lukeje

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I don't "believe" in evolution because the masses of empirical evidence mean that I don't have to take it on trust.
 

Ryuk2

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I don't believe in evolution, I KNOW that evolution exists. The only people who don't believe in evolution are old people who believe god and don't know that evolution has nothing to do with god.
 

cuddly_tomato

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Snack Cake said:
There is almost no area where the Abrahamic tradition makes a falsifiable claim about the nature of the universe, which isn't directly contradicted by modern science. Germ theory, astrophysics, and geology all differ sharply with holy books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Evolution is no more scientifically controversial than any of these other topics. However, none of these areas of science are under constant attack by the religious community, the way that evolutionary biology is.

Why?
Some religious people interpret the Bible literally, and they interpret the proven fact that evolution takes place as an attack on their religious peoples (which it isn't, it is simply that Biblical literalism is a mistake). The mechanisms and some of the principles of evolution are still misunderstood, and there are some severe discrepancies in conventional theories of evolution that need exploring. But the overall premise (life changes over time depending on it's environment and that life changes and grows rather than "creates") is really proven beyond doubt.

There are parallels to this in other cultures. You know when you prove to the fundamentalist atheists the historical fact that Hitler was an atheist? Then they get all bent out of shape and start quoting things from antitheist sites? It is exactly the same as that. For some people, their own religious or anti-religious belief system is something that is reliable (to them) than history, fact, or science.

SonicWaffle said:
All atheism requries is that lack of belief, and indifference certainly qualifies. The whole idea of strong/weak atheism is pretty ridiculous, considering that there is only one qualification to be an atheist, the lack of belief in a divine force, and one either holds that belief or does not. In your example, the "strong" atheist is simply an atheist, whereas the "weak" atheist you describe is a blend of atheist and agnostic; since many atheists disbelieve due to a lack of evidence or reasons to believe in god, then if some definitive evidence for god's existence appeared they'd probably change their mind.
I prefer the terms "reasonable atheism" and "fanatical atheism". Reasonable atheists simply don't believe in god, and that is enough. They all accept that belief systems are not irrational (morality and ethics are merely beliefs after all). Fanatical atheists distort reality as much as any creationist, demonize anyone and anything that doesn't agree with their world view, and are utterly obsessed by religion to the point that they are basically religious themselves.
 

Internet Kraken

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Every one always says not to make religious threads.

And yet, they always get so many responses.
 

Bigeyez

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Well most mainstream religions have no problem whatsoever with evolution. It's only fringe groups and nutjobs spread across all the religions that constantly attack it.
 

Pimppeter2

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According to the Vatican Information Service in a news release on October 23, 1996, Pope John Paul II was reported as saying that evolution is "more than just a theory." This seems to mean, despite the tenuous wording, that he now considers evolution a scientific fact. His written message to his science advisers, the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, speaks of "a series of discoveries made in different spheres of knowledge" which have convinced him to make this bold statement supporting evolution and suggesting that his millions of followers do the same.
 

cuddly_tomato

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pimppeter2 said:
According to the Vatican Information Service in a news release on October 23, 1996, Pope John Paul II was reported as saying that evolution is "more than just a theory." This seems to mean, despite the tenuous wording, that he now considers evolution a scientific fact. His written message to his science advisers, the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, speaks of "a series of discoveries made in different spheres of knowledge" which have convinced him to make this bold statement supporting evolution and suggesting that his millions of followers do the same.
Yeah I know. But some dude who hasn't taken a bath since 1972 and thinks that the moon is evil, living in a converted pill-box in the Nevada desert said he doesn't believe in evolution. Therefore the entire religious population including religious scientists and biologists who study evolution must also not believe it, for some reason. That's science that is.

I have to say, we have never had a Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Hindu, Buddhist or any other religious peron on this forum proclaiming their beliefs to be the correct one and that all others are retarded and need to change. We get two or three atheists doing this every single day.

It is tragically ironic.
 

Chipperz

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Kurokami said:
Also assuming there is an afterlife, since Atheists will no undoubtedly go to hell, Jew have no hell and it seems a popular belief that you need to kill an infidel to get into heaven for Muslims, Christianity might be logical to cover your basis if you believe in an after life. (Though I don't see myself spending a life time living in mediocrity for the chance at a good afterlife)

Of course I will forever dislike the preaching of blind fools.
I've always been told that you don't have to consciously follow the beliefs to get into Heaven, just be a good person. A problem that many Christians have is that the Old Testament was later superceded* by the whole "love one another, as I have loved you" thing - there's no mention of belief, just being good, so, yeah, Atheists are allowed in, along with eeeeeeeveryone else so long as they haven't been an arsehole. I fail to see how "not being an arsehole" is "spending a life time living in mediocrity".

I find it extra delicious that this means that people like the Westboro nutjobs won't.

OT - I genuinely believe that science and religion can work together, and the best way to do this is to ignore the crazy fundamentalists on both sides. Interesting way to find out if someone is a crazy fundie! If they go on about how much they know God does/doesn't exist... They're a fundie! :D

*A fact that many Christians miss. Along with many Atheists trying their hardest to slam Christianity to get a few more converts so that their brand of science will get them nicer soil to rot in when they die.
 

stabnex

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I just think fanaticism on either side is a bad idea. I don't care what either side believes in. I have my belief that all humans must die, and other have the belief that I'm a deranged psychotic and I'm fine with that, too.
 

sgtshock

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I do believe in evolution, although I do see how even some rational-minded people might question it. For example: how did eyes evolve? Eyes are an incredibly complex organ, I fail to see how an eyeless creature could either:

1) Be suddenly be born with eyes complex enough to give it an advantage at survival,
or
2) Evolve two useless organs on its face that, over many generations, would eventually gain the ability to pick up light.

Now like I said, I still believe in evolution, and I'm totally open to the fact that science might one day explain this. And those people who reject evolution purely on the fact that it contradicts with the "6 days" story, are idiots. Especially considering that Darwin himself believed in God.
 

Alex Ford

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sgtshock said:
I do believe in evolution, although I do see how even some rational-minded people might question it. For example: how did eyes evolve? Eyes are an incredibly complex organ, I fail to see how an eyeless creature could either:

1) Be suddenly be born with eyes complex enough to give it an advantage at survival,
or
2) Evolve two useless organs on its face that, over many generations, would eventually gain the ability to pick up light.

Now like I said, I still believe in evolution, and I'm totally open to the fact that science might one day explain this. And those people who reject evolution purely on the fact that it contradicts with the "6 days" story, are idiots. Especially considering that Darwin himself believed in God.
If you read some of the earlier posts you'll get your answer
 

Ben Legend

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And... so the flame war begins. hehe

I believe in Evolution fully, but not in religion.

Whereas my girlfriend believes in both, so I see no reason why they cannot co exist.
 

DazBurger

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dragon_of_red said:
Well, beacuse we have faith my son, faith.

You need it, faith and hope are the only things making us seperate from the bad guys.
So Im a bad guy now? :<
Unless you mean faith and hope in general, and not only in god?
But then.. Who is evil? Is there even such thing as evil, or is it just separate opinions?
I dont believe in evil, but there is probaly alotta people out there, who regard me as evil.
Im white (racism), im male(femminists) im danish (the few danish hating muslims), im young(youth-hating elders), im anti-religious and I have satanist, gay, and freemason friends.


And looking at a historic perspective, a lot of historys "bad guys", were in fact very religious people.

So back to my initial question. Am I a bad guy?


sgtshock said:
I do believe in evolution, although I do see how even some rational-minded people might question it. For example: how did eyes evolve? Eyes are an incredibly complex organ, I fail to see how an eyeless creature could either:

1) Be suddenly be born with eyes complex enough to give it an advantage at survival,
or
2) Evolve two useless organs on its face that, over many generations, would eventually gain the ability to pick up light.
Thats because non of theese two are the correct answer.
The early eye, was no more than a bunch of light-sensitive cells.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

Especially considering that Darwin himself believed in God.
Darwin lived 1809-1882. Just about everyone was religious back then.
 

AhumbleKnight

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sgtshock said:
I do believe in evolution, although I do see how even some rational-minded people might question it. For example: how did eyes evolve? Eyes are an incredibly complex organ, I fail to see how an eyeless creature could either:

1) Be suddenly be born with eyes complex enough to give it an advantage at survival,
or
2) Evolve two useless organs on its face that, over many generations, would eventually gain the ability to pick up light.

Now like I said, I still believe in evolution, and I'm totally open to the fact that science might one day explain this. And those people who reject evolution purely on the fact that it contradicts with the "6 days" story, are idiots. Especially considering that Darwin himself believed in God.
The answer to your question is out there. It is not even hard to find. Most people who have a problem with evolution or questions about it tend to do nothing about it other than doubt.

A simple google/youtube search will answer your specific question. Check out CDK007's channel as I know that he has a video answering that specific question.

I believe in logic, reason, and the scientific process. I believe that the laws of the universe are fixed and through observation, testing, and rational thought, we are able to eventualy understand them (one at a time). It bothers me that so many people don't "believe" in evolution when they don't even understand the basics of what it is. They use and trust all the advances in technology that the scientific process has given us yet chose to not to believe in evolution. They believe in gravity and would laugh at anybody who chose to not believe in gravity. They don't even realise that there is more evidence supporting the theory of evolution than the theory of gravity.
 

bodyklok

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sgtshock said:
I do believe in evolution, although I do see how even some rational-minded people might question it. For example: how did eyes evolve? Eyes are an incredibly complex organ, I fail to see how an eyeless creature could either:

1) Be suddenly be born with eyes complex enough to give it an advantage at survival,
or
2) Evolve two useless organs on its face that, over many generations, would eventually gain the ability to pick up light.

Now like I said, I still believe in evolution, and I'm totally open to the fact that science might one day explain this.
Science already has, to a great extent anyway, explained this.


The human eye we know and love didn't pop out of nowhere, it began millions of years ago with nothing but a photoreceptor cell that told organisms when it was light and when it was dark, it probably wouldn't of let them recognize the world around them; it could easily of given species huge advantages though. Following the Cambrian period out fossil records regarding the eye give us a better picture of how it paned out through history, there's been a lot of study in this area actually, partly due to peoples frequent claims that something so complex couldn't of pooped out of nowhere in fact. I recommend you read up a bit about it, this is the best explanation I can find online, [http://blackwellpublishing.com/ridley/a-z/Evolution_of_the_eye.asp] but there's a whole wealth of information on this topic, covering both sides of the question of weather or not the eye evolved by the Darwinian mechanic [http://creation.com/did-eyes-evolve-by-darwinian-mechanisms] if you just bothered to google it [http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=Evolution+of+the+eye&meta=&aq=&oq=&fp=4de6aef1efa46664], or maybe looked it up on youtube [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_lNQerUJ4], you'd get a pretty decent answer.