If You Don't Believe in Evolution, Why?

Windexglow

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Our planet is around 4.5 Billion years old. That's an incredibly huge amount of time (and thus chances) that a living organism could be created that could replicate. I think it's incredibly likely that millions of other living cells were made during this period, but they died out for varying reasons.

The original cells might not have looked like anything we have today, evolution teaches us the strongest survive. A cell with a barrier that absorbs only useful nutrients will survive better compared to a cell with none.
A cell that replicates itself exactly has advantages and disadvantages compared to a cell that can make mistakes when replicating (DNA). While the new DNA can be inferior, it can also occasionally be superiority making it survive better.

Earth has had a long time to develope life.
 

cuddly_tomato

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Lexodus said:
cuddly_tomato said:
Lexodus said:
dragon_of_red said:
You need it, faith and hope are the only things making us seperate from the bad guys.
Dragon_of_red, highlighting one of the main points as to why religious people are hated by many. Give the man a biscuit.
You don't need faith. You do need belief. Not belief in god, but belief in concepts of good and evil. Science has nothing to say about morality, ethics, justice, or anything else like that. So yes, if someone relies only on science and logic they are amoral. Not evil or bad, but simply completely without morality. Note: That is DIFFERENT from being an atheist. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god, not someone who doesn't believe in morality.

Lexodus said:
OT: The big thing about evolution vs creation is that, whilst not disproving God, evolution being correct would take away his massive claim to fame (and, if God didn't create the world, who's to say he did all that other stuff? And if he didn't do that, who's to say that there even is a God?). That is why, I think, there is the schism.
Why do you think that evolution contradicts religion? Surely you have the word "allegory" in your vocabulary? That is all one needs to understand that religion and evolution really don't have anything all to do with each other.

Also, what do you mean "create the world"?
What I mean is, the whole story links together God creating the world, and God creating the plants, animals and humans. If you believe the story, it says God did all that, and all in 6 days, yadda yadda yadda. Point is, 'creation' is lumped into one story. However, If God didn't create the plants, animals, and humans, maybe he may not have created the world either (see: big bang theory. If evolution can be accepted, why not the big bang as the next logical step?), which means he may not either a) have the power, and then not be the god that Christians, Jews and Muslims etc. believe in, or b) exist in any way, shape or form.
So you don't know what allegory means? From wiki:-

"Allegory (from Greek: αλλος, allos, "other", and αγορευειν, agoreuein, "to speak in public") is a figurative mode of representation conveying a meaning other than the literal. Allegory communicates its message by means of symbolic figures, actions or symbolic representation. Allegory is generally treated as a figure of rhetoric, but an allegory does not have to be expressed in language: it may be addressed to the eye, and is often found in realistic painting, sculpture or some other form of mimetic, or representative art."

This means that texts such as the Bible are not considered literal truth even by people who "believe" them. They are allegorical, metaphoric, symbolic, not literal. 'Art' rather than 'science'. Mythos, not Logos.

If not evolution, then why not the big bang as the next logical step? Well it could be that there is absolutely no logical connection between the big bang and evolution? This is rather like saying "If someone likes climbing mountains, won't they like raspberry pie as the next logical step?" It is a complete non sequitur.

Also, the Big Bang theory does not disagree with religion. Not at all. In fact the theory was created by a Catholic priest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

So trying to say that religious people don't believe in stuff like the big bang and evolution is as empirically false as creation itself, which is extremely ironic.
 

DisturbiaWolf13

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Lexodus said:
Chipperz said:
Lexodus said:
dragon_of_red said:
You need it, faith and hope are the only things making us seperate from the bad guys.
Dragon_of_red, highlighting one of the main points as to why religious people are hated by many. Give the man a biscuit.

OT: The big thing about evolution vs creation is that, whilst not disproving God, evolution being correct would take away his massive claim to fame (and, if God didn't create the world, who's to say he did all that other stuff? And if he didn't do that, who's to say that there even is a God?). That is why, I think, there is the schism.
Evolution didn't create the world. At it's most basic level, gravity did.

I wish that these scientific types would actually read the theories they're supposed to believe in before spouting random lies as fact... (HA! I got to use it! Yay!)
I actually just qualified that. What I meant is, if everything on the earth evolved and that is accepted as fact, surely the big bang theory (also denying that God created the earth as it says in Genesis) might not be so hard to accept either.
speaking of genesis, nice profile picture.
 

JordanMillward_1

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Cakes said:
sneakypenguin said:
I personally think my faith(christianity) and science intersect pretty well
Agreed. Why there is a conflict is beyond me.
Which would be why the Anglican Church acknowledges that evolution did happen and that the Bible just used a metaphor that people could understand at the time. They agree that since science pretty much proved it, it must have happened that way, despite what the Bible says.

This is why the Archbishop of Canterbury rocks, cos he's an intelligent guy who knows when to adapt... which is funny, when you are talking about evolution :p
 

crudus

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Snack Cake said:
crudus said:
Snack Cake said:
Because it doesn't fit their world view. They are happier to not believe it. That is all you need to know.
As a science-minded person, asking "why?" is a big part of what I do. If this question makes you uncomfortable, you are certainly free to ignore it. Trying to prevent others from learning, on the other hand, seems unnecessarily combative to me.
Ok, I can take another argument path. How do you feel about Jehovah's Witnesses or Catholics (not picking on anyone, just saying two sects that go out a preach) trying to tell you about the word of The Lord?
 

rokkolpo

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your own avatar is contradicting you.

the pastafariens don't believe in evolution.
 

Lexodus

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cuddly_tomato said:
Lexodus said:
cuddly_tomato said:
Lexodus said:
dragon_of_red said:
You need it, faith and hope are the only things making us seperate from the bad guys.
Dragon_of_red, highlighting one of the main points as to why religious people are hated by many. Give the man a biscuit.
You don't need faith. You do need belief. Not belief in god, but belief in concepts of good and evil. Science has nothing to say about morality, ethics, justice, or anything else like that. So yes, if someone relies only on science and logic they are amoral. Not evil or bad, but simply completely without morality. Note: That is DIFFERENT from being an atheist. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god, not someone who doesn't believe in morality.

Lexodus said:
OT: The big thing about evolution vs creation is that, whilst not disproving God, evolution being correct would take away his massive claim to fame (and, if God didn't create the world, who's to say he did all that other stuff? And if he didn't do that, who's to say that there even is a God?). That is why, I think, there is the schism.
Why do you think that evolution contradicts religion? Surely you have the word "allegory" in your vocabulary? That is all one needs to understand that religion and evolution really don't have anything all to do with each other.

Also, what do you mean "create the world"?
What I mean is, the whole story links together God creating the world, and God creating the plants, animals and humans. If you believe the story, it says God did all that, and all in 6 days, yadda yadda yadda. Point is, 'creation' is lumped into one story. However, If God didn't create the plants, animals, and humans, maybe he may not have created the world either (see: big bang theory. If evolution can be accepted, why not the big bang as the next logical step?), which means he may not either a) have the power, and then not be the god that Christians, Jews and Muslims etc. believe in, or b) exist in any way, shape or form.
So you don't know what allegory means? From wiki:-

"Allegory (from Greek: αλλος, allos, "other", and αγορευειν, agoreuein, "to speak in public") is a figurative mode of representation conveying a meaning other than the literal. Allegory communicates its message by means of symbolic figures, actions or symbolic representation. Allegory is generally treated as a figure of rhetoric, but an allegory does not have to be expressed in language: it may be addressed to the eye, and is often found in realistic painting, sculpture or some other form of mimetic, or representative art."

This means that texts such as the Bible are not considered literal truth even by people who "believe" them. They are allegorical, metaphoric, symbolic, not literal. 'Art' rather than 'science'. Mythos, not Logos.

If not evolution, then why not the big bang as the next logical step? Well it could be that there is absolutely no logical connection between the big bang and evolution? This is rather like saying "If someone likes climbing mountains, won't they like raspberry pie as the next logical step?" It is a complete non sequitur.

Also, the Big Bang theory does not disagree with religion. Not at all. In fact the theory was created by a Catholic priest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

So trying to say that religious people don't believe in stuff like the big bang and evolution is as empirically false as creation itself, which is extremely ironic.
Firstly, of course I know what a fucking allegory is, but some people out there *gasp* actually believe the Bible word-for-word, and these are generally the people the OP was referring to, i.e the people deny evolution at any cost. These people DO exist, so don't be an asshat.
Secondly, evolution is still debated. It's generally accepted that it's correct, but there's still a lot of people that disagree. I mention the big bang only because it is accepted by a lot of people, like evolution, but, like evolution, many disagree. If one is accepted as the truth, even by the ignorant fundies that believe that Adam was nine hundred and thirty years old when he died, then why is it so hard to accept that they may be wrong on more counts than just one?
Thirdly, yes it does. It denies that God created the universe as depicted in Genesis (BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING, THIS ONLY APPLIES TO THE BERKS THAT BELIEVE THAT THE WHOLE BIBLE IS LITERAL), which means God is not the creator, and, if he is not the creator, it isn't such a stretch to think that the Bible may have been wrong on more than one count, and, if he didn't do any of this stuff, he may as well not even exist as he has had approximately no contact with humanity, the earth or anything else.

Many 'normal' Christians have the view that God created the big bang, and I don't know quite what to say about that. It kind of seems like a cop out, but also that they're giving dues where necessary. There also (in all probability) has to have been something that kick-started the big bang, and if you want to call that God, that's probably fair. However, this disagrees with the traditional view of the magical beardy man living in the clouds, so, yes, it sort of contradicts religion? well, either that, or it redefines it, and makes it seem even sillier (in my opinion; after all, if you truly believe that whatever started the big bang is 'God', then you may just be worshipping an atom falling apart or something. The only way this retains the classic 'beardy man' image is if it wasn't that whatever the thing that started the big bang was God, but that God, as he is believed to be, was there and did it).

Anyway, cut that shit out. You didn't even try to read or understand my post and the context of such before you decided to ***** at me about allegories, did you?
 

Dudemeister

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Snack Cake said:
There is almost no area where the Abrahamic tradition makes a falsifiable claim about the nature of the universe, which isn't directly contradicted by modern science. Germ theory, astrophysics, and geology all differ sharply with holy books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Evolution is no more scientifically controversial than any of these other topics. However, none of these areas of science are under constant attack by the religious community, the way that evolutionary biology is.
The real question here is why does it bother you so much that other people believe something you don't ?
 

aakibar

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there has to be a god of some sort, why here why now and likfe could not just randomlly devlop there needs to be an outside source that was created by a god. But that god is like newton belived, a clock-work god he made the universe created a single spark of life and then will sit back a watch what happens mainly for shits and giggles
 

Chipperz

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Monkeyman8 said:
Snack Cake said:
JWAN said:
The people who harass Christians for their beliefs don't have the strength of their convictions to question other faiths like Islam.
You'll note that in my original question, I explicitly included the whole of the Abrahamic tradition, not just Christianity. Creationism in the Jewish and Muslim communities is just as strange to me as it is amongst Christians. And frankly, in my experience, the modern atheist movement is much more critical of Islam than any other religion.
Oh Islam. Thank god we have Christians to make fun of for being stupid. Otherwise the only thing I'd hear was Jihad this, and woman's rights violations that.

that's way off topic though. People deny evolution because it shows that their god is a lie (along with a lot of other science witch is ignored as well)
You... You didn't even try to read the rest of this thread before you decided to troll, did you?
 

ZippyDSMlee

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I dunno I might be crazy but god can do anything so primordial ooze=religion=god=creation=-evolution=science=modern sheeple...er..ape....er..er...jelly bwains....er man :p
 

Doctor_Insano

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all i am going to say is it is arrogant to believe that any person, especially a scientist knows anything, beyond a shadow of a doubt, with any absolute. every 30 years, the scientific commmunity changes their mind on things they say were "absolutely true" as they learn more about "what really happens". religeon cannot be proved, and to a definitive conclusion: neither can evolution. those people that do not have faith in some form of religeon have faith in science. FAITH in science. now if you have seen and readon the many ways people screw up daily, how could you take anything said by "man" at face value?
 

garfoldsomeoneelse

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Mar 22, 2009
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Likely because the religious crowd tends to fear a "slippery slope" of accepting things that even mildly refute any part of their beliefs. They rationalize that ALL of it must be true, because their subconscious knows that once they start accepting certain parts of their scripture to be just plain wrong, the rest may fall apart as well.

And who can blame them for not wanting to lose their belief and faith? Religion is a hell of a comfort in a universe of uncertainty. I personally wish I could partake in it, myself... wouldn't have to spend yet another sleepless night just thinking about what the hell might be out there.
 

Sexy Street

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Deshara said:
Cakes said:
Buddy, don't do topics like this. Some people don't believe the same things as you do, and that's fine.
Yes, and some people are willing to talk about it. Shutting out any request to talk about it by automatically claiming that nobody can be civil while doing so is only helping to alienate two already self-seperating demographics.
No, it's just that 99% of the time a flame war bursts out from a single comment and then all you can hear is,
NO FUCK YOU
NO! FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING GAY FAG!
HOMOPHOBE
RELIGIOUS WANKER!
FIRST!
It is frightening...
 

The_Prophet

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sheic99 said:
Or Genesis is the most that man could understand at the time when said deity revealed the story of life unto them. If God is as powerful as the bible states, then there is an innate possibility that the human consciousness cannot fully grasp the entirety of his powers. Continuing along this line of thinking, the six days of creation that is described in the bible, may have been six days for the supreme being, but for mortal like it could have been 6 million years. As such, evolution can be seen as an attempt to view the process of creation of life on Earth.
You just blew my mind. A very, very, very interesting theory.
 

sgtshock

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bodyklok said:
sgtshock said:
I do believe in evolution, although I do see how even some rational-minded people might question it. For example: how did eyes evolve? Eyes are an incredibly complex organ, I fail to see how an eyeless creature could either:

1) Be suddenly be born with eyes complex enough to give it an advantage at survival,
or
2) Evolve two useless organs on its face that, over many generations, would eventually gain the ability to pick up light.

Now like I said, I still believe in evolution, and I'm totally open to the fact that science might one day explain this.
Science already has, to a great extent anyway, explained this.


The human eye we know and love didn't pop out of nowhere, it began millions of years ago with nothing but a photoreceptor cell that told organisms when it was light and when it was dark, it probably wouldn't of let them recognize the world around them; it could easily of given species huge advantages though. Following the Cambrian period out fossil records regarding the eye give us a better picture of how it paned out through history, there's been a lot of study in this area actually, partly due to peoples frequent claims that something so complex couldn't of pooped out of nowhere in fact. I recommend you read up a bit about it, this is the best explanation I can find online, [http://blackwellpublishing.com/ridley/a-z/Evolution_of_the_eye.asp] but there's a whole wealth of information on this topic, covering both sides of the question of weather or not the eye evolved by the Darwinian mechanic [http://creation.com/did-eyes-evolve-by-darwinian-mechanisms] if you just bothered to google it [http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=Evolution+of+the+eye&meta=&aq=&oq=&fp=4de6aef1efa46664], or maybe looked it up on youtube [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_lNQerUJ4], you'd get a pretty decent answer.
Wow, I didn't know that. I should've done some more research, that's interesting stuff.
 

Nigh Invulnerable

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Cakes said:
sneakypenguin said:
I personally think my faith(christianity) and science intersect pretty well
Agreed. Why there is a conflict is beyond me.
I'm with you two. I'm religious, but I also believe that evolution is a legitimate theory. Evolution can be demonstrated in a lab with bacteria, since their generational cycle is literally just a few days. Tweaks made to certain bacteria that prove more useful, such as antibiotic resistance, get passed along and become more prevalent. That is evolution in action.

Why there needs to be this great divide between science and religion is beyond me.

EDIT: Whoa. Didn't realize I'd gone gonzo a few posts ago. Yay me.
 

bodyklok

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sgtshock said:
bodyklok said:
-Science Snip-
Wow, I didn't know that. I should've done some more research, that's interesting stuff.
Evolution, and the debate surrounding it, is at the very lest quite interesting. Aside from the greater issues, the precise details of evolution are actually quite fascinating just for being so bizarre.

EDIT: Remember though; if you ever don't know something, your doing it wrong. Try harder. With most things, the answers are out there, you just need to look for them.