I think it's a good thing to keep games interesting. I'm incredibly bored of the basic male, white protagonists in most games. I almost always play women if i can. playing commander shepard as a female was so much better than as a male.
I'm a straight male gamer, convince me diversity in games is a good thing
- Thread starter Genocidicles
- Start date
Why would anyone bother teaching people to be less shitty? That's always up to you. If you don't want anything which could cater to anyone but yourself, that's your business. I mean, it's shallow, selfish, shortsighted, ignorant and unpleasant, but hey, if that's what you want to show to people.
Diversity is neutral. In an American-centric context it might be good due to the historical events of American slavery and other such issues. In the broader world, there's way more nigh-homogenous nations than there are racially diverse ones. Take Japan for example with something like 98% of the population being native Japanese people. Their games don't need diversity since in their context everyone ever looks the same except for that one foreigner who they saw once on a train that they tell all their friends about due to how rare it is. Of course that's gonna be reflected in their games. Their games aren't inferior for being less diverse, they're just less diverse.
Diversity is neither good or bad and it definitely isn't gonna make a game inherently better. A more diverse game can be better than a less diverse one but that's gonna be entirely contingent on other factors not related to diversity.
Diversity is neither good or bad and it definitely isn't gonna make a game inherently better. A more diverse game can be better than a less diverse one but that's gonna be entirely contingent on other factors not related to diversity.
Diversity is already here.
As long as 0.01% of the population are willing to put their money where their mouth is and it doesn't need state-of-the-art GFX, then any type of game WILL get made, on PC, thanks to digital distribution.
To the TS: the democratic forces of the videogame market are already on your side. No need to stir the pinkos.
To the angry mob: look beyond the triple-A action genres for your fix and support the small guys, if you're true.
As long as 0.01% of the population are willing to put their money where their mouth is and it doesn't need state-of-the-art GFX, then any type of game WILL get made, on PC, thanks to digital distribution.
To the TS: the democratic forces of the videogame market are already on your side. No need to stir the pinkos.
To the angry mob: look beyond the triple-A action genres for your fix and support the small guys, if you're true.
Oh for fuck sake. Sarkeesian is a nut job. She does not speak for all women, most of whom I'm sure also wish she would do one. What, you genuninely think that the industry /is/ dumbing down games so women can play them? As if women are incapable of playing games unless they're "dumbed down"?Genocidicles said:
Look, if you need to be convinced that diversity is a good thing, I can't help you. Bad games are bad because they're bad. Not because of some phantom boogyman trying to diminish gaming with the dreaded spectre of diversity.
Reaper195 said:
trunkage said:
Ugh, fucking tell me about it, BroShep killed that game for me when I first played it when it came out. He's just SOOOO boring. Had no no further interest in the series after completing ME1 with Broshep. Years later, my flatmate is playing ME2 as Femshep, damn I was pulled in, glued to the screen watching her play, she's just so much better in every way than BroShep by far, totally made me fall in love with the franchise, never would've happened if it wasn't for FemShep.
In fact if it wasn't for FemShep, I never would've had my first bonding moment with my flatmate,(we barely knew each other at the time) who is now my girlfriend. Thank you Mrs Hale
A) Because a significant number of gamers aren't straight, male or white, and they may wish to project themselves onto the main character as much as the current majority in gaming.
B) Because by diversifying gaming, you make it more attractive to other demographics and thus increase the number of gamers in the world, which in turn means more people buying games, and thus more money going into game development, which in turn will produce better games.
C) Because gaming will likely gain more respect as an art form if it moves from the preserve of one demographic to a larger one.
D) Because inclusion in the community will lead to different cultural impacts on gaming, which may possibly lead to different philosophies of game development and indeed new game genres.
E) Because diversity can in no way hurt the games industry.
B) Because by diversifying gaming, you make it more attractive to other demographics and thus increase the number of gamers in the world, which in turn means more people buying games, and thus more money going into game development, which in turn will produce better games.
C) Because gaming will likely gain more respect as an art form if it moves from the preserve of one demographic to a larger one.
D) Because inclusion in the community will lead to different cultural impacts on gaming, which may possibly lead to different philosophies of game development and indeed new game genres.
E) Because diversity can in no way hurt the games industry.
A good game is a good game whether the people in it are white blue yellow or have two breasts where their nose should be, in terms of that diversity its more about people seeing a growth out of this rut of childish immature approaches to people in games, not just generic characters, but generic in every facet to fill the holes for their games. Good characters rule over all, I don't need a Shakespearian story with my hack and slash which I see from a gaming experience as junk food, but I could do without irritating pathetic ones.
I don't care about what my character looks like or prefers unless it affects how I wanna play, on a personal level that doesn't bug me. It does however bug me on a industry level that they don't expand their creative pool, you never restrict yourself so foolishly in a CREATIVE MEDIUM.
There is also the consideration of diversity in terms of the people playing, and I agree some games are really easing up for more people to play, but that inherently isn't a problem. There becomes a problem when easy mode is the only damn mode you know, Fire Emblem Awakening as an example is aware the games are hard to get into and provides a door for beginners, while KEEPING the mode for the dedicated fan, no gamer left behind.
The only way to move forward is to try new things. Sometimes they genuinely fail, sometimes they miss the mark by a hair, or they succeed tremendously, but its just not your thing. The diversity of your games in any sense as raw data means there will be more kinds of games. As a gamer you want to try new experiences and see things no one else has created before, to sit through a 4 hour or 20 hour or 100 hour experience...and feel joy from what you just experienced.
Variety is the spice of life, you will get to enjoy and gruel through new experiences learning as a person and as a player. Games that fail and you hate that come to be out of striving for diversity are good for you in the long run, they will let people learn what works and what doesn't and you will get a more enjoyable experience in the future.
In short, diversity goes hand in hand with creation, and this is a creative industry that has run the same tired old concepts through the mill somewhat more than it has made striding new bounds into the new and undiscovered, and that simply will not keep it afloat.
I don't care about what my character looks like or prefers unless it affects how I wanna play, on a personal level that doesn't bug me. It does however bug me on a industry level that they don't expand their creative pool, you never restrict yourself so foolishly in a CREATIVE MEDIUM.
There is also the consideration of diversity in terms of the people playing, and I agree some games are really easing up for more people to play, but that inherently isn't a problem. There becomes a problem when easy mode is the only damn mode you know, Fire Emblem Awakening as an example is aware the games are hard to get into and provides a door for beginners, while KEEPING the mode for the dedicated fan, no gamer left behind.
The only way to move forward is to try new things. Sometimes they genuinely fail, sometimes they miss the mark by a hair, or they succeed tremendously, but its just not your thing. The diversity of your games in any sense as raw data means there will be more kinds of games. As a gamer you want to try new experiences and see things no one else has created before, to sit through a 4 hour or 20 hour or 100 hour experience...and feel joy from what you just experienced.
Variety is the spice of life, you will get to enjoy and gruel through new experiences learning as a person and as a player. Games that fail and you hate that come to be out of striving for diversity are good for you in the long run, they will let people learn what works and what doesn't and you will get a more enjoyable experience in the future.
In short, diversity goes hand in hand with creation, and this is a creative industry that has run the same tired old concepts through the mill somewhat more than it has made striding new bounds into the new and undiscovered, and that simply will not keep it afloat.
That thread title is basically saying "I am an entitled gamer who thinks that because I was born on the privileged side of society that I am always right and that any change should be met with violent death and rape threats. I dare you to change my mind."
Sorry, but I don't deal with hopeless cases. If you can't see that gamers sending rape and death threats to the point that Anita Sarkeesian had to LEAVE HER OWN HOME out of fear is a bad thing, then I would be wasting my breath to try and explain it further.
Sorry, but I don't deal with hopeless cases. If you can't see that gamers sending rape and death threats to the point that Anita Sarkeesian had to LEAVE HER OWN HOME out of fear is a bad thing, then I would be wasting my breath to try and explain it further.
I don't care.
Not in the slightest.
Sure, I'm playing as a male in Fire Emblem Awakening but on my second playthrough I'm going to play as a female avatar just to change it up a bit.
If the main character is black I will not care.
If the main character is female I will not care.
I probably won't care if the character is gay either.
For that matter, I don't care if the character is black or white.
As a straight, white male gamer I don't care.
Now, I would care if they made an existing male character female, or an existing female character male. Or a black character white and vice versa. Or a straight character gay, vice versa, you get my point.
I think worrying about stuff like this is stupid, because it takes away from making good games.
Not in the slightest.
Sure, I'm playing as a male in Fire Emblem Awakening but on my second playthrough I'm going to play as a female avatar just to change it up a bit.
If the main character is black I will not care.
If the main character is female I will not care.
I probably won't care if the character is gay either.
For that matter, I don't care if the character is black or white.
As a straight, white male gamer I don't care.
Now, I would care if they made an existing male character female, or an existing female character male. Or a black character white and vice versa. Or a straight character gay, vice versa, you get my point.
I think worrying about stuff like this is stupid, because it takes away from making good games.
Yikes, is there really need for the hostility? OP never mentioned Anita or any of the death threats. I realize it's a bad thing and all, but there's no need to bring it up then imply that OP is one of those sending death & rape threats.snowfi6916 said:
OP's question isn't something all that uncommon; I'm sure if you asked most gamers if they care about diversity in gaming, their response is going to be "I really don't really care, I just want to play some games". If your response to this was to call them entitled shits who enable death threat senders you aren't gonna be a lot of friends, bud.
The actions of gamers these past couple of weeks has assured me that I don't want to BE friends with any gamers. So no big loss there.Inglorious891 said:
Also, where the fuck in my post did I say that the OP was one of the people sending rape and death threats? What I said was if he asks for us to PROVE that that is wrong, I am not going to waste my time, because it should be obvious that it is wrong. That first quote I used is called "paraphrasing" and is used for effect.
Same as I was thinking. Truly is a really stupid/ignorant question.UmberHulk said:
I barely even take notice of the race of the character in-game.
If given the option to pick a guy or a girl then I always pick the guy. I do kinda think guys who pick the girls 100% of the time just for the sexual aspect are really just downright weird.
When I play Dynasty Warriors and they give me the pick of characters I do think it's odd that all the women are going into battle in a bikini (that and I have no clue why they are all super pale.) Maybe that just because of how much I love history and have a distane for the people who have everything that's not overtly male in Skyrim be naked.
Also now I have to validify my position by saying I'm a white male gamer but apparently only our opinions are the legitimate ones, because everybody else is OBVIOUSLY bias.
Uh. Do you hate knowledge?
Sorry bad start. But seriously games are good because they're a storytelling medium where the audience is able to act. At the very least diversity gives you a new perspective. On top of that, there are some stories that can only be told from the perspective of a trans woman, or a black man. Why do you seem to want to limit the creativity of the people making the media you like?
Sorry bad start. But seriously games are good because they're a storytelling medium where the audience is able to act. At the very least diversity gives you a new perspective. On top of that, there are some stories that can only be told from the perspective of a trans woman, or a black man. Why do you seem to want to limit the creativity of the people making the media you like?
I'm going to take a guess that the OP isn't too good with expressing what his actual problem is with all the diversity stuff and it came out as him saying he doesn't like the diversity movement. I'm going to try to put your thoughts in better words, OP, so tell me if I'm right.
The problem isn't the diversity in itself. After all, it doesn't make a lot of sense why you would be against having some protagonists that don't look like they came out of CoD, unless you really are just small minded. The actual problem you have is that the games being created by the diversity camp tend to be pretty lackluster or just walking simulators. The people in this camp aren't pushing out the next Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Chrono Trigger, Street Fighter II, Halo, Skyrim or Pokemon. Their games of choice tend to be of the artsy variety that lacks a lot of game mechanics in general and could very well just be called a virtual art museum tour. Sure, there is a segment of gamers that like stuff like Gone Home, but the majority of us want the next Mario 64. I doubt there would be any problem if an indie dev made the next Mario 64 starring a female lead, and I'm sure that's what most gamers actually want when they talk about diversity in gaming. But they're not doing that. I personally don't have anything against games that are primarily text based and story driven. I love Phoenix Wright, Ghost Trick and 9 Persons, 9 Hours, 9 Doors, and I know there's a sizable fanbase for visual novels like Umineko. At the same time, however, I would in no way put games like Gone Home on the same level as those games. Problem is, we're not even getting games from them that are on par with Phoenix Wright, Layton or Umineko, and these games get a free pass for being short and dull just because its "deep" and "artsy".
Also, the diversity camps tends to favor pushing out silly and over-the-top characters for their idea of a "deep" character, and designs that come off as rather bland since people should look "normal." There's a purpose for having silly characters like Bayonetta and Dante just as there is for having serious characters like Joel and Ellie. But it seems like the diversity camp wants everyone to be a Joel and Ellie, and they want to attack every character that wants to be a Dante and Bayonetta. Sure, there are gamers who want mature and serious characters, but there are also plenty of gamers who want crazy, over-the-top caricatures as the lead instead. It's starting to become an environment where we're not allowed to have our caricature leads anymore without being called a neckbeard, and that BS is getting old really fast. I sure wouldn't enjoy Dynasty Warriors nearly as much if every character was a factual representation of their historical counterpart. MovieBob's very first Game Overthinker summarized my point with this, where crazy and over-the-top used to be the rule to gaming, not the exception. A lot of gamers want the buzz cut white dude to go away, but we don't want them replaced by bland and normal people. Gamers want games where people like Mario, Samus, Fox, Simon Belmont, etc. are the norm again. We're all tired of everyone looking like Nico Belic and Commander Shepard, but we don't want the pendulum to swing in the exact opposite direction where every game becomes as silly as BK Kids in an effort to be inclusive.
Is that about right?
The problem isn't the diversity in itself. After all, it doesn't make a lot of sense why you would be against having some protagonists that don't look like they came out of CoD, unless you really are just small minded. The actual problem you have is that the games being created by the diversity camp tend to be pretty lackluster or just walking simulators. The people in this camp aren't pushing out the next Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Chrono Trigger, Street Fighter II, Halo, Skyrim or Pokemon. Their games of choice tend to be of the artsy variety that lacks a lot of game mechanics in general and could very well just be called a virtual art museum tour. Sure, there is a segment of gamers that like stuff like Gone Home, but the majority of us want the next Mario 64. I doubt there would be any problem if an indie dev made the next Mario 64 starring a female lead, and I'm sure that's what most gamers actually want when they talk about diversity in gaming. But they're not doing that. I personally don't have anything against games that are primarily text based and story driven. I love Phoenix Wright, Ghost Trick and 9 Persons, 9 Hours, 9 Doors, and I know there's a sizable fanbase for visual novels like Umineko. At the same time, however, I would in no way put games like Gone Home on the same level as those games. Problem is, we're not even getting games from them that are on par with Phoenix Wright, Layton or Umineko, and these games get a free pass for being short and dull just because its "deep" and "artsy".
Also, the diversity camps tends to favor pushing out silly and over-the-top characters for their idea of a "deep" character, and designs that come off as rather bland since people should look "normal." There's a purpose for having silly characters like Bayonetta and Dante just as there is for having serious characters like Joel and Ellie. But it seems like the diversity camp wants everyone to be a Joel and Ellie, and they want to attack every character that wants to be a Dante and Bayonetta. Sure, there are gamers who want mature and serious characters, but there are also plenty of gamers who want crazy, over-the-top caricatures as the lead instead. It's starting to become an environment where we're not allowed to have our caricature leads anymore without being called a neckbeard, and that BS is getting old really fast. I sure wouldn't enjoy Dynasty Warriors nearly as much if every character was a factual representation of their historical counterpart. MovieBob's very first Game Overthinker summarized my point with this, where crazy and over-the-top used to be the rule to gaming, not the exception. A lot of gamers want the buzz cut white dude to go away, but we don't want them replaced by bland and normal people. Gamers want games where people like Mario, Samus, Fox, Simon Belmont, etc. are the norm again. We're all tired of everyone looking like Nico Belic and Commander Shepard, but we don't want the pendulum to swing in the exact opposite direction where every game becomes as silly as BK Kids in an effort to be inclusive.
Is that about right?
