Im super proud of 4chan.

[RA92]

Basically, Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend published a blog that outed her as an abusive girlfriend and had proof that she cheated on him with members of the game industry and the gaming press. This sparked some controversy, as Nathan Grayson, a journalist writing for Kotaku and RPS, was named and he had written a couple articles spotlighting her game, Depression Quest.

Hell, not even articles spotlighting her games. He made exactly one post on RPS, which consisted of him listing Depression Quest along with 49 other games being Greenlit on Steam, and a passing mention of her and JonTron's headbutting in <url=http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284/all>another post on Kotaku during the clusterfuck that was the Mountain Dew game jam.

At any rate, it's fuckin' hilarious. Thousands of people donated to Sarkeesian's Kickstarter to spite 4chan and its ilk, and now 4chan is creating a Politically CorrectTM waifu to spite Sarkeesian &c.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

One thing that hasn't been brought up are the reasons for lack of support for from the feminist "side" in regards to The Fine Young Capitalists. Seeing as half my Twitter feed has rolled characters in the various Social Justice classes (primarily Paladin, I believe), I think I can shed some light on that. People were initially somewhat suspicious because these guys kind of came out of nowhere, followed by contentions with Z** Q**nn I'm still not clear on, just like I'm not clear on most of that clusterfuck of a for-some-reason-public narrative. Those aren't concrete reasons, just beginnings.
*snip*

Oh, I totally agree with you. However the main reason I won't support TFYC is because it follows a really backwards logic from my perspective.

So the want more women in gaming? Good, I support that! How are they going about it? By taking women who have never been active in the gaming industry, are previously unaffiliated with it and might not even want to become full-time game designers and letting them pitch an idea for a game concept. Then they take that concept away from the creator and let a different team of developers (supposedly all women) create the game itself.

Doesn't this strike anyone else as a completely pointless exercise? If you want more women in gaming, you should strive to create projects that actually get women into gaming and that keep them in gaming. A much better way would be to let budding female programmers, artists etc. create the actual game, because that would be a way for them to create a CV and get experience from the industry. But instead the onus is on the woman pitching the idea, a woman who is expressly not very related to the final product, as she is doing none of the actual work beyond concept pitching.

Sure, it is cool that it is a charity for colon cancer. But as an initiative for better representation and more diversity in gaming it is hilariously bad. To me it feels like TFYC is trying to cash in on goodwill by pretending to further a cause that many people agree with, but without doing anything to create any form of change or sustainable difference.

 

[Ninjamedic]

To me it feels like TFYC is trying to cash in on goodwill by pretending to further a cause that many people agree with, but without doing anything to create any form of change or sustainable difference.

So, exactly how some people feel about Tropes Vs. Women then?

It's fair enough if you don't want to support them, but if that's you're definition of exploitative, you could easily apply that to TvW or DQ.

My reading of TFYC was that the point was to prove that a game designed by women was not only feasible but financially viable. It's more about proving the idea to investors/stockholders than us, they're the ones with the capital and who really control the industry.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

To me it feels like TFYC is trying to cash in on goodwill by pretending to further a cause that many people agree with, but without doing anything to create any form of change or sustainable difference.

So, exactly how some people feel about Tropes Vs. Women then?

It's fair enough if you don't want to support them, but if that's you're definition of exploitative, you could easily apply that to TvW or DQ.

My reading of TFYC was that the point was to prove that a game designed by women was not only feasible but financially viable. It's more about proving the idea to investors/stockholders than us, they're the ones with the capital and who really control the industry.

Creating a discussion is definitely a way to initiate a change or difference, as I pointed out in the post that Dr. Cakey replied too, it is thanks to people like Anita Sarkeesian, Rebecca Watson and others that we are actually having the discussion about women's inclusion and representation in the games industry and gaming hobby.

And your reading of the TFYC might be more correct than mine, but it still conflicts with their expressed intention of increasing women's presence in the games industry. If they want to show that women can design successful games too, they really ought to go to the women who have actually studied game design and not just some random women who might think it is a fun idea. The premise of bringing in happy amateurs into something that actually requires a lot of skill is what grinds my gears the most.

 

[Dragonbums]

My reading of TFYC was that the point was to prove that a game designed by women was not only feasible but financially viable. It's more about proving the idea to investors/stockholders than us, they're the ones with the capital and who really control the industry.

I know another user already beat me to it, but I think that what TFYC are trying to do would be a lot more effective if they actually found start up and/or established women coders, modelers, artists etc, and have them come together to make a game.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of women in the industry right now that contribute ideas to the game. But that's just it. Ideas. We are talking about women creating and making a game that is not only super solid in concept but also in execution. Having a women throw in an idea and having an all male or predominately male dev team actually mold that idea into something solid and make the game doesn't necessarily prove anything other than what's already the norm.

After all, nobody gives credit to the artist(s) who made up the idea for the Turians in Mass Effect. Or the Mass Relays, or the ship design. Unless they are high up in the food chain of game development and warrant being known on a larger scale. It's all credited to Bioware. And Bioware encompasses the whole finished concept and product of the game. Not little man Joe or Tina that worked endless hours on the concept of one fucking species.

 

[carnex]

I know another user already beat me to it, but I think that what TFYC are trying to do would be a lot more effective if they actually found start up and/or established women coders, modelers, artists etc, and have them come together to make a game.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of women in the industry right now that contribute ideas to the game. But that's just it. Ideas. We are talking about women creating and making a game that is not only super solid in concept but also in execution. Having a women throw in an idea and having an all male or predominately male dev team actually mold that idea into something solid and make the game doesn't necessarily prove anything other than what's already the norm.

After all, nobody gives credit to the artist(s) who made up the idea for the Turians in Mass Effect. Or the Mass Relays, or the ship design. Unless they are high up in the food chain of game development and warrant being known on a larger scale. It's all credited to Bioware. And Bioware encompasses the whole finished concept and product of the game. Not little man Joe or Tina that worked endless hours on the concept of one fucking species.

From What I read TFYC already were a team and they decided to do something.

What you are saying sounds like they should sacrifice themselves to let women take their places and to actually fund them while not earning money in what they already created (working environment, relationships etc). That is, from the sound of it, example of impossible standard. Do not ask people to throw themselves under the bus because it's only acceptable way to help someone.

Any one of us could do more good for people we help if we reduced ourselves to out basic survival needs, but is that realistic thing to ask for, to expect or even dream of?

 

[Dragonbums]

I know another user already beat me to it, but I think that what TFYC are trying to do would be a lot more effective if they actually found start up and/or established women coders, modelers, artists etc, and have them come together to make a game.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of women in the industry right now that contribute ideas to the game. But that's just it. Ideas. We are talking about women creating and making a game that is not only super solid in concept but also in execution. Having a women throw in an idea and having an all male or predominately male dev team actually mold that idea into something solid and make the game doesn't necessarily prove anything other than what's already the norm.

After all, nobody gives credit to the artist(s) who made up the idea for the Turians in Mass Effect. Or the Mass Relays, or the ship design. Unless they are high up in the food chain of game development and warrant being known on a larger scale. It's all credited to Bioware. And Bioware encompasses the whole finished concept and product of the game. Not little man Joe or Tina that worked endless hours on the concept of one fucking species.

From What I read TFYC already were a team and they decided to do something.

What you are saying sounds like they should sacrifice themselves to let women take their places and to actually fund them while not earning money in what they already created (working environment, relationships etc). That is, from the sound of it, example of impossible standard. Do not ask people to throw themselves under the bus because it's only acceptable way to help someone.

Any one of us could do more good for people we help if we reduced ourselves to out basic survival needs, but is that realistic thing to ask for, to expect or even dream of?

What do you mean sacrifice? Most of the money is already going to charity. The goal of the project was to prove that women can make creative and cool games. So it would make sense that you have them not only pitch the idea, but to also bring in upstart female coders and modelers to make that idea a reality. Anyone can make an idea. They don't hire people who can just "make" ideas. You gotta have some more worth than that. Having a start up pitch an idea and a bunch of experienced game creators (mostly male) making the game doesn't prove anything beyond experienced game developers can make good games. As such it would be more productive in their goal to cultivate female start ups that are already interested in games making games.

 

[carnex]

What do you mean sacrifice? Most of the money is already going to charity. The goal of the project was to prove that women can make creative and cool games. So it would make sense that you have them not only pitch the idea, but to also bring in upstart female coders and modelers to make that idea a reality. Anyone can make an idea. They don't hire people who can just "make" ideas. You gotta have some more worth than that. Having a start up pitch an idea and a bunch of experienced game creators (mostly male) making the game doesn't prove anything beyond experienced game developers can make good games. As such it would be more productive in their goal to cultivate female start ups that are already interested in games making games.

1) They do stand to profit, exposure for themselves and their skill.
2) In that case, why the hell would they do anything, if they are not involved with anything.
3) As far as I know from money they gather they are going to purchase assets and food for themselves while they develop the game(S)

I stand by opinions I made previously.

 

[nuttshell]

... bring in upstart female coders...

And here is where this idea falls flat allready.

How long did we have this "misogyny in gaming" told to us, over and over again? Wouldn't all these "upstart female coders" smell the fame and support by announcing a cooperative effort in order to make a game only by women?

 

[cleric of the order]

I'm an old man, and sites like Vice are blocked at work, so I'm having trouble following what the fuck is going on at the moment. I'd really appreciate if someone could let me know, as neutrally as possible:

1) What the argument about Zoe Quinn is? I've vaguely heard what she's done, but I'm not sure why it warrants a 300 page thread on this forum.

2) What constitutes a "Social Justice Warrior"? My impression was that they're guys/gals that argue for equality, but the hatred they get makes me think otherwise.

3) Who is Vivian James/what's the point of it?

4) Why are FYC seemed to be heroes, when what they seem to be doing is SJW on a more organised scale?

5) Where 4chan come into all of this?

If you don't want old fuds blocking up this thread, feel free to private message me, but this has all blown up and I have no idea what's going on.

OT: The character looks cool, but I have no idea as to it's relevance. How does it "take down all feminists" exactly? Why are feminists the enemy? I'm so goddamn confused.

Sjws are armchair activists, by and large, this site should make it easier to understand (I hope, just check the pictures at the worst, that's where the crazy is)
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/social-justice-blogging
Further more they aren't for equality, never assume they were. They have their idea of it but frankly it's a lot of twisted, cancerous thinking.

THe Zoe quinn thing was a large case of The Streisand effect mixed with decided to settle out of court, her former boy friend wrote up a word press ... thing about he suspected she had sexual relations with some big game journos. Then people started getting banned for it (even on 4chan man, m00t = kill), MundaneMatt who did a pretty even handed video got a false DMCA claim filed against him and people got mad.
for further reading http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/quinnspiracy
Vivian James was /v/ making their own character for the TFYC project, turned out nice. /pol/s her uncle though, that's weird.
Again, this site pretty good on the neutral meme recording http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/vivian-james
The TFYC is better then the SJW I've seen or heard about, they showed up on a couple web radio shows and were on about how thy planned on giving both women experience in the industry and supporting the devolpment of the industry in semi 2nd world countries.
It is fantastic, Zoe's talked some shit to them and they went down,
Here's some of their side of the story
and in soundcloud form
https://soundcloud.com/super-admin/tfyc-confession
I don't have the other side of the story but someone will be along shortly to drop of the imgur thingy it's in.
Further more organization is key, sjws do nothing but whine and attack people, TFYC gets shit done, they create things and they don't lambast everyone with cries of check your privilege or something stupid like that.

4chan came into this because mods began to nuke threads with ZQ or GG (including guilty gears threads) ham-handly. /v/ got mad and then /pol/ handed them an idea, they pointed to TFYC and with /v/ they raised a but ton of money for them. They made Vivian in a pretty based thread together, taking input from quite a lot of /v/irgins and /pol/lo...( wait that's racist can't say that here).
Further more, when m00t declared open season on GGers we migrated to 8chan, (well I did becuase /tg/ hada shitty mod and was filled with nothing but quest and coya threads, along with some pretty easily "triggered" sjw anons.)
This thing split 4chan for a bit and perhaps longer, 8chans pretty darn great; not a lot of young jerks running around swearing because it's edgy, multiply pics, .webm support, better mods, custom board creation, it's great.

Feminists come in because SJWs are a part of the 3rd wave rad fems, crazy buggers, which is okay by rad fems, temperance had those bar smashers and women's lib had S.C.U.M. ('nough said) but they are also more popular then each of those movements.
What they represent is not a Egalitarian movement (I my eyes as a former feminist [not as bloody ally, I swear to the heavens above]) it's a supremacist movement. #killallmen and the like are the sorts of things that come out of this area.
On the other hand, other feminists came out to support these events pretty evenly, Christina Hoff Summers is for most amongst them, but I wouldn't say all or really much of feminism has really shown up just a host of cat's paw rad fems and a hand full of egalitarian feminists.

 

[Duster]

Overall /v/ has been garbage for some time now and i'm glad to finally have an excuse to leave. It used to be the best place to get unbiased and insider information on the industry. I mean they found some cool stuff in the files of watch dogs, but other than that it's not nearly as fun as it used to be for me. I guess /vr/ and /vg/ creation and mismanagement removed the old critique bombardment you used to be able to get.