Im tired of "Better Graphics" being a major argument of PC vs. Console

Nihlus2

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Well... I can understand where you are comming from with the annoyance (at least that is what I can figure is your major issue and reason for writing this post, since the whole thing was a bit unfocused, no offense).

Before I start playing the devil's advocate, I am going to say this: no one should shove the whole "mine's better than yours", in someone's face, there is room for everyone, and so, respect among the platforms.

However! With that said, the whole reason that this "tiresome arguement" keeps bouncing back up is that the current gen of consoles is 6-7, soon 8 years old. Yes, 8 years. Take a PC from 8 years ago and have it run a modern title, it will really, really struggle, and that is what your console is atm, spec wise.

Objectively, it IS holding back development of games, which results in longer loading screens, bigger weapons in FPS titles (to help out with the running process of the game without having to sacrifice graphics), as well as length limitations, framerate locks and boundary for what the teams can do, creativity-wise. etc.

A lot of games have to spend as much time in development "thinking about how to tweak around the limitations", rather than actually develop what they desire, in order to reach their goals - and that is a way the industry really should not be going, taking all the shortcuts.

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are in no rush to develop a new console generation either, the technology has leaped majorly in eight years, but why should they when the current system works? The PC keeps evolving, but their salenumbers are not dropping yet, so why should they be interested in multiplatform-releases?

It goes a bit along the lines of buying a car... a really wonderous car that can pump you up way over the 150 mph, with incredible acceleration. Or so the model should be capable of, but since there are speed restrictions anyway around the city and such, the company has decided to hardlock the car's top speed to 85 mph, because that works fine anyway. And costs a lot less to produce. A lot.

The technology to push things into eyegawping is there, as well as the lack of lagspikes, long loading times, gamefreezes and heavy weight on the machine are available. But it is expensive to develop.

It really is a question about efficiency on many fronts;
Graphics
Framerates
Loading
Objects on the screen (sort of connected to some of the above).

I am going a bit in circle here but... long story cut down to size: It is frustration because the technology is there to make a million things happen on the screen at once, in HD resolution, realism at ridiculous heights, with almost no loading times... but it just isn't being put to consoles because the development is a huge, huge investment, really ridiculously massive.

So until that happens, the PC cars will be held at the lower mile limit, because the 6-8 year old models refuses to progress. It is no longer a question about "reaching the peak", but rather "tweak our 'peak' to make it look like we are still progressing".

...That or put a huge investment in your PC ports, but that in itself would require an almost seperate development of the game, side-by-side, considering the difference between the Consoles and Platforms atm :p The gap is only increasing by the years... t'is a bit scary really.

Personally? I am not that much of a fuss over the graphics part... it is nice to look at, but I grew up with a generation of games where visual style was combined with good story and music to make a good combo. Not just visuals. That feels more sickening than everything else, like you are being blatently catered to for the wrong kind of reasons, to distract you from the lack of content in other areas. It needs to be complimentrary of one another, not one outshining the others completely.

So... I would love to see PC and Console on equal ground, so the question about "which one is preferable", comes down to what genre it is... and if it works better with a mouse & keyboard, or a gamepad etc. - because that is all there should be to argue about. The better experience through the means of either of those.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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zellosoli said:
or am I missing a bigger picture?
Yes, you are.

is how the game looks actually whats driving the game industry today?
For mainsteam gaming it always has been.


I mean look at E3 and most release Videos, all flashy visuals and improved graphics being the big focus (final fantasy anyone?)
E3's dirty little secret is that most of the release videos were run on PCs.


...OK I'm starting to go on a tangent here, what I'm trying to ask is anyone else noticing this too?
The reason why graphics almost always comes up first is it because it's an 'undeniable' advantage of the PC that can just be pointed to and as you go deeper into the PCs advantages the more technical knowledge is required on the part of everyone invovled... at which point either gets the points you're making called irrelevent or you get called an elitist. Or both.
 

The White Hunter

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Folji said:
It's right at the end of a console generation, so it's only natural that the difference between new PC hardware and console hardware from half a decade ago gets more and more attention when the latter keeps cutting corners where the former has room to flail around with both arms wide out.
Exactly.

Give it a couple years and the PS4 and new Xbox will likely be very shiny looking graphics machines indeed, for a few years, then they'll be old and withered like the current gen consoles.

Frankly whats driving me to PC gaming is the fact that these days all my friends who I played with on consoles don't bother to play games anymore because they have a partner (I have a partner, I still manage to play games online and maintain a healthy adult relationship with another human being.) and the rest of my friends play on PC. So soon, when my money stockpile hits the benchmark I shall be investing in a rather powerful custom PC and building myself a fucking Behemoth. Then I shall go and play games with my friends on a PC. (Any advice on components is welcome, I don't plan to spend much over £800 if I can help it, but want to maximise performance for games like Borderlands 2 and MoH Warfighter)

The only reason I can think of for me to stick with a console next generation is that I love some of Sony's IP's. Resistance 3 was an absolutely magnificent game in almost every aspect, just wish I could've aimed with a mouse :3. I also like Killzone but then I find the concept of british space nazi's very appealing for some reason.

Microsoft have no IP's that appeal to me, I feel I should mention, hence I don't own an Xbox and likely never will. L4D2 is the only gasme on Xbox and not PS3 but hey, that's why I have Steam.

Also if we look at the "I like to play games from my couch" argument, why can't you do that with a PC? PC's have HDMI out and most TV's have PC inputs, get a wireless mouse and keyboard or just use a wireless controller, it's easy. I personally play games in my massive comfy faux-leather office chair, in spite of whatever format they're on.

In the end it's silly to argue about such things, let's all just love games and get on with it.
 

Folji

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SkarKrow said:
Frankly whats driving me to PC gaming is the fact that these days all my friends who I played with on consoles don't bother to play games anymore because they have a partner (I have a partner, I still manage to play games online and maintain a healthy adult relationship with another human being.) and the rest of my friends play on PC.
That is pretty funny, hehe. A lot of big console gamers I know are in a situation pretty much like that, where they've put their console aside either because they have other things to prioritize or because they decided to get themselves a gaming rig.

SkarKrow said:
So soon, when my money stockpile hits the benchmark I shall be investing in a rather powerful custom PC and building myself a fucking Behemoth. Then I shall go and play games with my friends on a PC. (Any advice on components is welcome, I don't plan to spend much over £800 if I can help it, but want to maximise performance for games like Borderlands 2 and MoH Warfighter)
We're right at the end of a generation and even with a new one the specs aren't going for leap for the moon in some years still, so it's no trouble to assemble a pretty capable rig with a cheaper mid-range processor, 8GB of RAM and a GTX 570 or equivalent card. Going beyond that is just getting cozy for the next generation.
 

The White Hunter

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Folji said:
We're right at the end of a generation and even with a new one the specs aren't going for leap for the moon in some years still, so it's no trouble to assemble a pretty capable rig with a cheaper mid-range processor, 8GB of RAM and a GTX 570 or equivalent card. Going beyond that is just getting cozy for the next generation.
Aye, I've been looking around a bit and I would like a touch of future proofing, just so I don't hve to reinvest for a few years, been looking at the new i7 processors and wishing I'd bookmarked a graphics card i had my eye on for around £200. I need a new case and shit too though, my entire rig is grossly inadequate except my HDD.

As I said, I'd like to be running a few games coming out this autumn on their highest settings with a good framerate (over 30 fps at least). I'm sadly new to building PC's so there's a lot of sifting through information to do for me.

captcha: in over my head

I wouldn't quite go that far captcha, I'd more say there are shitloads of options and I'm the kind of person who'll gladly spend a bit more if it gets a proportionally larger increase in performance.

EDIT: I too have other things to prioritize, but like I said I need to do something to unwind and enjoy myself and gaming suits that fine.
 

Stavros Dimou

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Graphics are only a single of the positives that PC gaming has. It matters for me,but not that much that nothing else matters. Here are a few other reasons why I prefer to play on my PC:

* Because games are cheaper. Usual price for a new PC game is 40 Euros,while the usual price for a new console game is 60 euros. It's like getting a free game every 3 games you buy.

* I like to be able to customize my experience more. It's not only graphics options,but they could be other options too that have nothing to do with graphics. Being able to change my FOV,or decide if I'm going to play with mouse+keyboard or controller are some of the many options that I have available on the PC.

* The PC community. Really,having a community that cares about games and can do things to help other players is a great thing. If there weren't the community we wouldn't get a fix for Dark Souls,or Skyrim mods,or Graphic enhancements by ENB. Having a community that is there to help you and do what developers couldn't is very precious.

* I like how you can quickly change between gaming,to looking for a walkthrough or cheat on google for the game you play,to check for new messages on Facebook,or to read discussions in forums during loading screens. Multi-tasking is a great PC feature.


These are a few reasons of why I prefer PC gaming than console gaming. I could write more but I'm bored to write more,and perhaps if I presented a huge list some would call me a PC elitist.
 

Spartan Altego

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The only true advantage PC has over consoles is modding.

The ability to have brand new, user/community created content available for free is PC's trump card. Skyrim got Hearthefire as a mod before Bethesda could even come up with their own DLC for it. KotOR II got the Restoration Project (Which is complete, for any fans here) and total-conversion mods that essentially gave you entire new games to play for the price of one. Arma II got DayZ, which was SO GOOD that it's being worked on to be released as a standalone game. Fallout 2 got it's own Restoration mod as well, and still has modders making new mods for it today.

Until consoles have their own way to easily and effectively give users a way to make mods, the PC gamers have a serious advantage.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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Shadowstar38 said:
Modding can possibly make a game more fun, I'll give you that. But customization is only an advantage if you know what all the shit in there is.
This is true. PC gaming is definitely not for everyone; it's for people like me who enjoy tweaking and fiddling with loads of different settings. I can totally understand the appeal of just popping a game in and then playing it without having to optimize it for yourself but I, personally, enjoy fiddling around and deciding for myself whether I want visual quality or a good framerate (I can normally get both but, what with only having an 'alright' computer, I sometimes have to choose and I always choose framerate).

With a console, you can pop a game in there from the begining of the console's lifespan to the end without worrying about minimum system requirements.
You usually can with a PC but, in all fairness, it does require you to have bought quite a high-end PC early on. Most current minimum requirements are components that are quite old (up to 5-6 years) but were very powerful when they were released. You also have to make a lot of compromises for them to run acceptably, like running them at a very low resolution with all settings at minimum. Still, I feel the savings in games make up for the need to occasionally upgrade but, again, I can understand why someone would want to just buy one piece of hardware and not have to replace it (breakage notwithstanding) for 6 years. Upgrading's fun if you like nerding out over hardware but if you just wanna play games I'd imagine it's a massive chore.
 

Zipa

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For me c is better because of steam, besides the obvious sales and such It allows me to connect and setup MP games effortlessly complet with voice chat an I don't have to pay a yearly fee unlike ps3/Xbox
 

theultimateend

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3asytarg3t said:
What's stupid is how held back game development for PCs is because the industry insists on porting games to consoles. Or in most cases with even more tragic results, the other way around.
I liked back in the SNES and Sega days when they'd make 2 different games for the systems.

Like the SNES Jurassic Park is WAY different from the Genesis one >_>.

I'm not a fan of Porting much at all.
 

ultrabiome

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as a loyal console fan (who also happens to PC game), its not like we don't know the facts on what makes PCs better, but since no one has actually praised consoles, i feel i must:

-often times way more convenient to plug in a console to your TV than set up a whole computer system, the hardware is bigger as well (this is changing with modern flatscreens with VGA inputs and video cards with HDMI outputs), but used to be very true.
-a mouse and keyboard take up much more space (plus needing space to set them down and a flat mouse space), although i'm sure you could plug in a controller, you probably still need to plug in a mouse and keyboard to run the PC.
-expectation that games should work right out of the box with no graphics/driver optimization and should be smooth sailing the whole way.
-hardware priority is always gaming, from input lag to interruptions from other programs.
-consoles are easier for software companies to program for due to unchanging hardware, PC developers have to accommodate varying ranges of graphical horsepower and drivers.
 

Twilight_guy

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I'm a programmer and a designer at heart. The graphics are just the pretty wrapping paper on the meat of the game. whether its in mat blue with no ribbon or in sparkling reflective green with lace a lace bow, I don't give a shit because I'm worried about whats inside.
 

braincore02

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A PC that can run better graphics than a console can also usually do so at better framerates, which for a lot of games can be a huge bonus. If I have the option to have better graphics and smoother framerates I'll take it.

Then there's mods, multiple control options (I can use a controller for the games it seems more appropriate, mouse and keyboard for the others, or a combination of both, depending on the game), more RAM (makes skyrim run just a *weee* bit better than what I've heard the PS3 can do), they're sometimes cheaper (tho you typically can't resell them). And then arguably one of the biggest bonuses- console commands. So when you run into a broken mission you can fix it on PC, instead of relying on the devs, which may never fix them (again, looking at you, skyrim). Not to mention in some cases, for instance Battlefield 3, on PC you can populate the maps with an appropriate amount of players, rather than the console's paltry 24 player limit.

But yeah, I like better graphics, so if the only difference between a console and a PC version is the PC has better graphics (which btw doesn't only mean higher res textures, but can also mean higher res displays, farther object pop-up, and larger draw-distances in general, which can actually improve the gameplay in certain games), why wouldn't I take that option?

Sometimes they can be less stable than the console versions, that's pretty much the only downside I can see, tho I've seen consoles crash too, so they're not immune.
 

Lunar Templar

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i kinda can't stand the 'graphic are better' argument, for any platform. just makes them sound like an idiot in need of a good hard smacking.
 

loc978

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I have noticed that many of my fellow PC gamers tend to think of system specs as a pissing contest, yes... and that's pretty sad.

Personally, I just prefer the options I get for input devices, mods and patches. Also, I hate trying to control a cursor with a thumbstick, it's just jerky and imprecise.
Also, my old PC has been chugging along playing any new game I throw at it since 2007. I like to be able to trust my hardware... and an XBox is about as trustworthy as an old Gateway. Can't build it myself, don't want it.
 

ben-

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I prefer the types of games available on the PC, I can get user created content for free that dramatically alters the old tired game ive beat, making it like new again.
I feel the controls are more intuitive for the types of games I prefer. The best thing is I can plug my xbox control in and use the controller if I want to play a different kind of game.

Having a PC to play games doesnt have to be expensive, you dont need new parts whenever they come out, if you dont mind console graphics a gaming pc will last you a few years. ( with cheap and easy options to upgrade for less money).
 

mavkiel

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Graphics are better is a plus. Why on earth shouldn't it be? It extends from pcs tend to have better hardware then consoles. This is why folks tend to be annoyed with console users in general. Good games are stripped down to play well on 3-4 (or has it been longer?) year old hardware, and even then fails. *cough* skyrim ps3 *cough*

As for old pc games with lousy graphics being still head in high esteem.. well its because of the depth. Back when pc games were designed for the pc, they tended to have it. In order to deal with console limitations and keep graphics up to today's standards, sacrifices were made.

A good example would show arena to morrowind to oblivion to skryim. You will notice a trend depth wise, many quests are gutted while graphics keep getting better. (Likely due to console constraints again). To be fair though, I think morrowind was a pretty good trade off content for graphics. After that though, the lack of in-depth factions and quests gets annoying.
 

z121231211

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PC is better in every way, which is most easy to see in graphics. Other benefits include more ram and processing power, which allows devs to put more things on the screen or do more calculations without slowing down. GTA can have more than 4 car models loaded at once, Oblivion can have more lively towns (villager AI), and Skullgirls will have less distractions (hitbox glitch that happens because there isn't enough RAM).

Of course this doesn't matter much with core gameplay mechanics, what matters is that the scope of the game can be much bigger than what can be done with consoles.
 

blueb0g

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zellosoli said:
genuinely perplexed why a lot of PC games make a big deal out of "whether a few pixels are smoother than the console version" when the rest of the game-play feels exactly the same

Most console games are rendered in 720 x 1024, which is 737,280 pixels.

Many PC gamers play on a 2560 x 1440 screen (or higher), and the games are rendered natively in that rez. That's 3,686,400 pixels.

That's more than a "few pixels". That's over 4 times as many.