In defence of anime girls/women...

SckizoBoy

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Right... I have little interest in people who are going to post here just to say how shallow female characters in anime can be. I've read a couple threads too many to realise what dickheads some people can be by making such a generalisation.

To those who read and intend to flame, I'll ask the following two question sets:

1. If you do watch anime, what do you watch that leads you towards such a conclusion, and why do you watch it?

&

2. If you don't watch anime, where does your justification come from?

Now, I like to watch slightly less popular (i.e. not mainstream) anime and I would say that a vast majority of the series I've watched have strong, independent and complex female protagonists. Some examples (which includes some well-known and well-liked series):

1. FullMetal Alchemist - (basically, all the women) Winry Rockbell, both parents killed in a war and she has the opportunity to get revenge when the killer is kneeling in front of her and she has a gun in her hands, what happens? Izumi Curtis, tried to resurrect her stillborn child, lost her womb as a result, spends the rest of her life trying to make up for that mistake. Riza Hawkeye, father passed secret alchemical techniques to Roy Mustang by way of a tattoo on her back, she requests he burns it off, plus some relationship issues there.
2. Seirei no Moribito - Balsa, father was framed in a conspiracy and has been a hunted woman most of her life, her protector killed his friends to keep her alive and she feels responsible for all of their deaths, and she becomes a surrogate mother to a prince.
3. Ghost in the Shell - Motoko Kusanagi, required full prostheses as a six year old and spent most of her childhood simply trying to control her own body.
4. Nodame no Cantabile - Nodame, brilliant (if eccentric) pianist, but constantly overshadowed by her even more brilliant eventual boyfriend, and she has to deal with the politics of the musical performance industry.
5. Ergo Proxy - Re-L Mayer, granddaughter to the effective ruler of Romdeau Dome, looked down upon because of that connection as being the only reason she's a ranked police officer, so no-one believes her about the appearance of Proxy 13, plus all the shit she has to go through to resolve everything.
6. planetES - (once again, all the women, pretty much) won't bother explaining, because anyone who says anything bad about the series deserves to be shotgunned in the face
7. Shinigami no Ballad - Momo, who tries her best at her job despite knowing that said 'job' is reaping the souls of generally young children, she cries for the dead because she knows that the dead cannot cry.

(There are others, including Taisho Yakyuu Musume, after a fashion, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Hourou Musuko, xxxHolic and so on, but I won't bother... ooooh, the will to live...)

I'll stop there. Now, someone explain to me why any of the above are shallow bitches who deserve a slap. Failing that, discuss...
 

emeraldrafael

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SckizoBoy said:
Not to make light of your message, cause believe me, I'm glad you're making it, but I find your number 1 and number 3 choices funny when you say you watch "not Mainstream". Thats not to say your other choices are mainstream, but just saying.

OT:
I agree with what you say, and can only add two female leads that strike me as powerful. Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck strikes me as a competant female character, cause her back story sets her up to be an airhead, when really there's a lot deeper to her.

Also, Ginza in Speed Grapher. yeah, a major part of her is her being sexual, but she's more then that, and made the series even more interesting.
 

MuppeTeN

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FMA not mainstream?...

Mmm have been a while since i watched anime, but yeah, Winry .

Also to my like, Kuwabara's Sister from Yu Yu Hakusho is an insteresting character, not much background is given on her, (nor Kuwabara) but they have such different attitudes. And ways of doing things.
 

funguy2121

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OP, aren't you the same guy who over the weekend said you preferred anime girls to real women?
 

SckizoBoy

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funguy2121 said:
OP, aren't you the same guy who over the weekend said you preferred anime girls to real women?
What the fuck are you going on about? I refer you to the post I wrote on it:

SckizoBoy said:
As much as I like the following girls (OK, the last one's a woman, but still):




and


I enjoyed my girlfriends (albeit when it lasted), even when it got bad. Someone tell me make-up sex wasn't worth it!
I only continued to post on that thread because (nearly) everyone started flaming about how one-dimensional anime girls were/are.
 

Rainbowloid

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I'm currently watching Durarara (about halfway through), and so far Celty is a wonderful example of a strong female character. She's badass without being a raging *****, and her femininity, and her character in general, is realistic. Except for... you know... not having a head. That's kind of unusual.

If this image is ruined in the second half/in the books, please don't tell me. I would like for her to remain awesome in my mind for as long as possible.
 

emeraldrafael

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ninjastovall0 said:
Of course. She just doesnt get a lot of backstory, but in the backstory she does get, you see the deepness that can exist. Even in her child form she has a deepness you dont see alot in anime children her age that later turn into the obligatory _________ character.
 

loc978

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I'm rather with the HankMan on this one. There are some well-written women in anime... just not most of 'em. Most of 'em are just an embodied trope... and most of the ones otaku obsess over are nothing more than off-the-shelf tsundere [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere], deriving all of their uniqueness from reactions to their situation... and that's generally not the first draw these people have to the character. A tsundere without a fetishized look to her won't get much attention.
 

funguy2121

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SckizoBoy said:
funguy2121 said:
OP, aren't you the same guy who over the weekend said you preferred anime girls to real women?
What the fuck are you going on about? I refer you to the post I wrote on it:

SckizoBoy said:
As much as I like the following girls (OK, the last one's a woman, but still):




and


I enjoyed my girlfriends (albeit when it lasted), even when it got bad. Someone tell me make-up sex wasn't worth it!
I only continued to post on that thread because (nearly) everyone started flaming about how one-dimensional anime girls were/are.
"What the fuck are you going on about?" Seriously, I don't think even Tarantino would be so quick to pull out the f-word in defense of anime. It was a simple question, and you used a lot of the same verbiage as the OP on that forum.

Also, you never answered my question from that forum. When you posted this, you said something like, all of these girls are anime, except the last one, who is real. So - and I'm genuinely confused on this - how exactly is Oliver real? She looks like ink and paint to me.

Also? Calm it down. Mainly, the posters on that thread were saying how 1-dimensional (and it's TWO-dimensional, by the way, hence your ability to see it) anime girls are compared to the real thing.

"And another thing:" the more one speaks facelessly online about how much they enjoyed makeup sex or how awesome it was to "do" their exes, the more virginal one appears. I'm not accusing you of anything, just offering friendly advice.

No, wait, I have one more: responses like "Who the fuck are you?" or "I don't fukkin' know what you're fukkin' talking about!" only inspire flaming and leisure trolling. We all get that you dig anime. Plenty of people on here do. Hell, I still enjoy some Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion now and then. Plenty of rich, respected, well established artists like Tarantino and Aaron MacGruder love anime enough to feature it prominently in some of their works. You do not need validation. So calm down, please, or someone very much like myself will come in here and have a great deal of fun getting you all hot-headed.
 

emeraldrafael

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ninjastovall0 said:
Eh, different opinions. People find different people empowering for different reasons. (EDIT: No, just gonna nip this in the bud now before I get into another post war, so just no, forget that was here) Besides, she's no worse then Faye from Cowboy Bebop who is just amnesia+sex appeal character.

On that topic, Juliet, of Cowboy Bebop is another choice I would make.
 

SckizoBoy

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funguy2121 said:
"What the fuck are you going on about?" Seriously, I don't think even Tarantino would be so quick to pull out the f-word in defense of anime. It was a simple question, and you used a lot of the same verbiage as the OP on that forum.

Also, you never answered my question from that forum. When you posted this, you said something like, all of these girls are anime, except the last one, who is real. So - and I'm genuinely confused on this - how exactly is Oliver real? She looks like ink and paint to me.

Also? Calm it down. Mainly, the posters on that thread were saying how 1-dimensional (and it's TWO-dimensional, by the way, hence your ability to see it) anime girls are compared to the real thing.

"And another thing:" the more one speaks facelessly online about how much they enjoyed makeup sex or how awesome it was to "do" their exes, the more virginal one appears. I'm not accusing you of anything, just offering friendly advice.

No, wait, I have one more: responses like "Who the fuck are you?" or "I don't fukkin' know what you're fukkin' talking about!" only inspire flaming and leisure trolling. We all get that dig anime. Plenty of people on here do. Hell, I still enjoy some Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion now and then. Plenty of rich, respected, well established artists like Tarantino and Aaron MacGruder love anime enough to feature it prominently in some of their works. You do not need validation. So calm down, please, or someone very much like myself will come in here and have a great deal of fun getting you all hot-headed.
First off, apologies.

I'm a little confused (as I was about the reply on the other thread). Where did I mention that Olivier Armstrong was 'real'? She was just part of a list of anime girls/women that would be cool to know (if they existed in real life).

I do hope you realise 'one-dimensional' was in reference to personality. The sex bit was an off-the-cuff comment written to introduce some levity, because up until that point, the thread had been worsening in mood... and it obviously didn't work.

And *meh*, just getting tired of the anime-flamers who offer little by way of constructive dissemination. Edited the OP to reflect current mood... which is nearing one of apathy.
 

[.redacted]

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*Ahem*

Watch Claymore, and then tell me that women in anime are all idiotic tits-on-a-stick.

 

Gigano

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Holo from Spice & Wolf

Nothing further really need to be said in order to disprove a notion that all portrayals of the fairer sex in anime are shallow and crude.

Are there also crude, one-dimensional, perhaps even distasteful anime portrayals of women around? Certainly! In fact, like any other media, the bad productions heavily outweigh the good ones.

Now go watch a few 70's exploitation movies. Hell, just watch Twilight. Pretty strong cases for a statement that all movie portrayals of women are unpleasant, right? At least if that was all you knew about what "movie" encompass.
 

Julianking93

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Huh. Interesting thread though, I personally was looking for the "All girls in anime are nothing but sex/rape objects" argument here.

The anime Ninja Scroll needs to be on both of those lists.
 

TeeBs

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What ever happened to the whole "Women being sexy is freedom against male oppression" movement.

And with that note I state my candidate

 

Cheery Lunatic

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Personally, I think Winry Rockbell is a *****. And crazy.
Anyone who spends that much time hitting people has problems.

EDIT: And that leads me to one of my biggest problem with anime chicks: tsundere.

They're either cutesy retards, or they have anger management issues.

And overly enthusiastic fans get angry at me whenever I say I don't like anime that much.
 

DefunctTheory

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They're not real people, you know that, right?

You don't need to (And indeed, CANNOT, in fact) defend 'girls' that are incapable of receiving harm.

TeeBs said:
What ever happened to the whole "Women being sexy is freedom against male oppression" movement.
Oh, its still in effect.

Men just aren't allowed to enjoy it any more.