In defence of the Escapist - from a contributor.
- Thread starter MiracleOfSound
- Start date
So what I'm essentially getting from your posts, you think that because they're paycheck is delayed(something they were told about up front, mind you) they need to riot and cause trouble instead of being calm about it and work out a peaceful solution.eximista said:
By the way, by saying you're on the side of EC it proves you are "quick to rush to a side" just so you know. Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but don't make the other people who work here feel like they're being dicks for having a sense of patience.
There is no true right or wrong here, because both sides have points they are in the right on and points they are in the wrong on.
Essentially, if you aren't going to contribute something helpful or let the other members/employees say their opinion without being a douche then just shut up and wait for everything to fully unfold.
Not to insult Gavin, but please note he said nothing about being paid.MiracleOfSound said:
Personally, if I had a boss tell me that they couldn't afford to pay me, regardless of how well they crossed the Ts and dot the Is, even if they were in financial straights, I would still be pissed that I wasn't getting what was promised to me. Work that doesn't get paid is volunteer work. While Jim and Gavin might be able to afford that, the Drinking Game guys and the dudes from the Pro-Gamer Gauntlet need that money.
Its a bad situation all around. Extra credits was probably my favorite contributor, and I really wish this hadn't happened. From what I have heard the Escapist has been a little unfair with them considering circumstances and how much of the rights for Extra Credits they claimed. Though maybe its an isolated incident, I hope it is. I'd really hate to see other programs like Miracle of Sound(love your work) or Jimquisition go.
Do you realy think they earn 20k in 1 month? they didn't pay them for about a year. AND thats clearly wrong!blizzaradragon said:
So your side is that there are no sides... and I should not say my opinion... in a forum... Hitler also didn't like the opinions of others >_>
Yeah, avoiding knee-jerk reactions is probably the best thing to do at the moment. I agree in that arguing over Twitter and Facebook is not a very wise decision. I'm staying neutral in all this, and at the very least I'm sure that none of the other contributors are involved and are not deserving of other people's ire.
It's good to hear a level headed comment from someone that does work for the site.MiracleOfSound said:
I love your work, Age of the Dragon is one of my favorites. That one got stuck in my head for two weeks.
Actually payment of employees comes second in line. At least that is how I would run a company.Generic Gamer said:
If the company is in some kind of trouble and needs the money to stay afloat, then the company gets the money first. Because if the company goes under, all the people that would complain about not being paid would be worse off, they would be out of a job.
So company first if it is in trouble, employees second.
In normal times, yes the employees are paid first and then the heads of the company, seeing as heads of companies get paid more, they shouldn't be as in need for the money as the lower employees.
If there is no way for the company to recover, then it uses the money left to pay the employees what they can and then let them go.
I'm happy to see a bit more calmed people today as well. Business can get very ugly unfortunately. Here we have a classic and common issue. Two people get along really well and rush into an agreement without enough legal paperwork both thinking the other is on the same page. Now they are arguing over it.
The best business advice i have is this: the more you love the person your going into business with, the more paperwork there should be. The less you think you will ever need a serious legal document, the more you actually need one. It hurts more to disagree about money with a friend or loved one and it's difficult to make a rational decision about your money when your caught up in emotion.
I spoke with Alexander in a thread earlier today and I for one believe he has made some bad decisions, but in the end is trying to do the best he can in a crappy situation. Unless you have experience running a business the size of the Escapist, you cannot speak to the difficult decisions he has to make on a regular basis. Both sides have made a couple of bad decisions, but both sides are coming from a good place. It's like watching two good friends fight. You don't want to see it happen, but if it is you try not to take sides.
This is the last post of the short conversation we had. Scroll up to see the rest:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.306109-An-open-letter-to-James-and-Alexander?page=3#12311468
Note that someone wrote a thread called 'An open letter to James and Alexander' and Alexander read it and posted in it. Just saying.
I really hope the community can calm down and realize that we don't have to choose a side.
The best business advice i have is this: the more you love the person your going into business with, the more paperwork there should be. The less you think you will ever need a serious legal document, the more you actually need one. It hurts more to disagree about money with a friend or loved one and it's difficult to make a rational decision about your money when your caught up in emotion.
I spoke with Alexander in a thread earlier today and I for one believe he has made some bad decisions, but in the end is trying to do the best he can in a crappy situation. Unless you have experience running a business the size of the Escapist, you cannot speak to the difficult decisions he has to make on a regular basis. Both sides have made a couple of bad decisions, but both sides are coming from a good place. It's like watching two good friends fight. You don't want to see it happen, but if it is you try not to take sides.
This is the last post of the short conversation we had. Scroll up to see the rest:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.306109-An-open-letter-to-James-and-Alexander?page=3#12311468
Note that someone wrote a thread called 'An open letter to James and Alexander' and Alexander read it and posted in it. Just saying.
I really hope the community can calm down and realize that we don't have to choose a side.
Yes it is wrong, but the Escapist didn't hide anything from their employees in this regard. Besides, if the company is in danger then the company should come first, because if the company goes under then you can kiss said paycheck goodbye.eximista said:
Also don't misquote me. There are sides, but it isn't a simple "I'm right and you're wrong" type of sides. Like other people said, it's like watching two good friends fight in that both have good points but neither side is right or wrong. I also didn't say you can't say your opinion, but instead to say it in a way that actually contributes and makes things better instead of trying to devolve this rational discussion into anarchy and chaos.
Side note: Hitler comparisons are seriously not cool. My grandpa was forced into the Nazi army, so you can shove your Nazi and Hitler crap up your ass.
What I want to know:
IF the escapist has had been having money issues, why didn't they ask for more donations?
It's clear from the amount of money that was donated to allision that we'd be willing to help...
IF the escapist has had been having money issues, why didn't they ask for more donations?
It's clear from the amount of money that was donated to allision that we'd be willing to help...
I do live in the U.S.A., and I for one would rather wait for a year to get a paycheck and still have my job than get maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of it and watch the company go under. Especially if it's more of a side thing like a series of videos on a website, which gives me a chance to make money for doing videos instead of having them on something like a blog. After all, I doubt EC will be making money by going back to Youtube.eximista said:
I'm gonna make a few last points before I'm done with this argument. The Escapist was upfront about what has been going on with their financial crisis with everyone(or at least everyone who has been willing to speak up so far). If they weren't okay with having to wait to be paid they could have either spoken up on it or left. Also this situation isn't that rare, especially in a creative department like this. It isn't like the Escapist is such a time consuming job for most of these people that they can't get a side job, especially having known what they were getting into in the first place.
Indeed it is,indeed it is.Saelune said:
But like I said,this fiasco has made three groups, two are white knights for each side,and the third consists of people smart enough to suggest compromise because in one way or the other,this is the fault of both sides. Something like this is extremely grey though nobody notices but a select few.
Thank youNaramSuen said:
Just giving my two-cents, I was going to stay silent but that kind of felt like I was being an ass to all the people messaging me for my thoughts or wanting to know if I wasn't being treated well. Felt I should clear things up.There's a tremendous amount of goodwill from the community towards the contributors on this site and it's a silver lining on this whole ... mess.
MiracleOfSound said:
Truly two of the most reasonable things I have heard said in this argument.MiracleOfSound said:
I really just hope this all gets sorted out. I don't think the folks at Escapist are bad people (though mistakes may have been made), and no one wants Extra Credits to leave.