Infinity Ward Teases Modding Tools for PC Modern Warfare 2

[Amnestic]

Id forgive them.

Come on, we need to encourage developers to experiment. IW thought that Mods were unnecessary, and that they could make a matchmaking service that would replace dedicated servers. Both thoughts were dismal, dismal failures, which they probably should have realized, seeing how it's not like no one told them. However, far more important then screwing up is the capacity to recognize a mistake and correcting it. Also, if PC Gamers forgive IW when they correct there mistakes, then they will be encouraged to support PC gaming as much as possible. If we give the proverbial, "F you, too little too late", well...they really have no reason to fix there mistakes and improve, do they? If you want IW to act like part of a dynamic community, which we do, we have to be able to forgive and forget when they make mistakes but fix them. If we want them to act like cold and distant corporate entities disconnected from there consumers, then we will keep getting shafted, and they won't notice the drop in revenue while there rolling in their money beds. I suggest that if IW adds mod support and dedicated, everyone who was complaining about IW screwing us over seriously consider taking out your wallets and purchasing the game which you wanted, now with the features you wanted.

Gonna have to go with this post right here.

Yes, IW was a little dismissive and more than a little stupid about the way they acted towards PC gamers, who still turned out in droves to buy their game. I agree with how the community reacted, telling them in no uncertain terms how it felt about essentially getting a direct and crappy port from the consoles.

But, Xanadu is spot on about forgiveness. If they're willing to show repentance and correct their mistakes, grudgingly or not, I think we owe it to them to show approval of actions like that, just as we showed disapproval before. Being an avid PC gamer myself and mostly shunning consoles, I've lately been worried about the future of PC gaming. Flaming developers for making mistakes, and continuing to hate them even if they fix them, is not going to mean good things for PC gaming in the future.

Firstly, "alittle" dismissive?

Secondly, this isn't confirmed AT ALL. And even if it was, dedicated servers are still missing.

but with mods, couldn't third party servers then be supported?

I don't know how deep into the code some mods can go.

It depends on how much access to the code is given. Basically, I really strongly doubt it, especially as IW have been VERY clear that they don't like piracy and IWNet was supposed to stop piracy, so I doubt they'll let modder's remove that code.

"Never mind the customers who actually pay for it, we need to focus all our effort on people who don't give us any money at all!"

Little article I found on the subject [http://www.scribd.com/doc/21995318/Modern-Warfare-2-XBOX-360-Pirated-Downloads-Tally-Projection].

Then there was that 1 million console 360's banned thing which was meant to be connected to pirated copies of MW2, or so the internet would have me believe.

I'll be over here in the corner sniggering to myself at the idea of any system combating piracy effectively.

*snip*

Spoiler: Oh go on, just one more

 

[Logan Westbrook]

*snip*

I'll say this once, and it applies to everyone, calm down.

 

[John Funk]

the most inconsequential complaint of all time, the removal of the ability to lean around corners).

Seriously?

You must not play a lot of FPS online if you don't get the importance of leaning. You can live without it, but there is a difference between barely being seen around the corner/shooting a guy then withdrawing like its whack-a-mole .vs. strafing to the side exposing more of your body.
~
As for mod tools...well lets wait for them to come out first...

Uh, I'm sure that it's a fine feature, but that's like complaining that the game doesn't have rocket-jumping (which is also a fine feature). If a game isn't developed around a certain ability, it's not developed around a certain ability. If they'd balanced a game with lean from the beginning and then took it out, you'd have a point, but they never intended it to be in the game in the first place.

Is TF2 bad because it doesn't have lean? Of course not, because it wasn't ever intended to have it.

Seriously, have you EVER played ANY PC game?!?!?

Comparing lean to ROCKET JUMPING in a Call of Duty game!! Are you mad!?!???

COD or Modern Warfare (take you pick on franchise) are ALL ABOUT using cover and you know what, leaning out from behind cover is pretty useful, you don't have to balance a game for lean for pete's sake. This is not Team Fortress 2 or Halo we are talking about here.

I mean MW2 is hardly a revolution from COD4, improved in so many areas but for a huge part it is almost the same and you just try playing COD4 on Veteran without using Lean.

I don't know why you do these stories if you show such a complete lack of understanding of these really basic PC gaming things. I don't know if it is intentional but it sure as hell looks like you are just parroting whatever IW say in their official press release.

I mean they actually said "not balanced for lean" JUST like you did.

Watch your tone.

Oh no, someone disagrees with you! They must not be a PC gamer! That's ridiculous.

Yes, I'm comparing lean to rocket jumping in a FPS, because they are both features, and both useful tactics that are not in Modern Warfare 2. I'm using basic common sense here.

See, here's where your argument falls apart: "Just try playing COD4 on Veteran without using Lean"? Of course not, because they designed the game to be played with Lean, meaning they took it into account when they built the levels and coded the AI. This was a game that was developed around a player who had the ability to lean to the side.

How about MW2, hmm? Is MW2 on Veteran impossible without Lean? No? Great! Because they were designing the game to be played without it, which means the levels were built around a lack of lean, the AI was coded around a lack of lean, etc.

There are very real complaints with the PC version of MW2, but complaining about not being able to lean to the side is mind-numbingly inconsequential and petty, and is exactly the same as people complaining about a lack of grenades in TF2 from TFC. THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS.

I have no investment in how IW does - I'm too busy playing L4D2, y'know, on the PC - I just think that gamers can be stirred into a frenzy entirely too easily (speaking of L4D2, anyway) and in this case, arguing about something so tiny actually diminishes your chance at getting any of your legitimate complaints heard, because it makes the entire rage come off as juvenile and petty.

 

[Treblaine]

a curious stink over the most inconsequential complaint of all time, the removal of the ability to lean around corners).

Are you even a PC gamer? If not why are you doing all these stories on PC gaming if you are not?

How can you call "lean" an inconsequential feature when I use it and see it used ALL THE TIME when I play COD4 online. I mean it is vital for windows where you obviously cannot step out of without falling. On veteran mode single player it is often the only way to stay alive with so many badguys who seem to posess superhuman accuracy.

Every single Call of Duty game has had lean since COD1 back in 2003 and it's exclusion from consoles is understandable since there aren't enough buttons (keyboard FTW) but to exclude it from PC is just being petty, not adding a feature that would have been so useful and so easy to implement.

I'm certainly a PC gamer.

I just think it's an incredibly stupid argument, because they weren't designing a game with lean. Maybe they looked at it in the previous games and said, "hey, this was too overpowered and gave the game a higher balance curve, we should get rid of it." They took grenades out of Team Fortress when they went from TFC to TF2. They took the Boot powerup out of Super Mario when they went from SMB3 to SMW.

They were making a different game, and deriding it for not having Extraneous Tactic X just seems so staggeringly silly. Man, I think MW2 is a shitty game because it doesn't have a stealth powerup. Even Quake had a stealth powerup! MW2 is also crappy because it doesn't have the Browning machine gun that was in the World War 2 COD games!

Actually, though I'm going on tangent for humor's sake, I think the TF2 grenades example is a perfect analogy. Would they have been easy to implement? Sure. Would they have been useful to have and created new tactics? Of course. Is the game any worse because it doesn't have them in, while it's predecessor did? Hell no.

This is NOTHING like the grenades in TF1. The grenades were just spammed and leaned on like a crutch, so they were removed from all the players but Demoman to encourage players to focus on their own weapons.

COD is trying to be a "gritty realistic war" game and as such it is all about tactical use of cover, I've already made this point but standing in the open and shooting like in Halo will get you killed quick. You run slow, can't shoot while sprinting and are inaccurate when moving at all, you are also killed quick from only a few bullets which makes a stand in the open shoot-out equally foolish.

Face it, even Modern Warfare 2 is all about using cover and lean is not "overpowered" or an un-balancing feature, it is common bloody sense not to stick your shoulder and lung around a corner before your eye is in line to take a shot. It just makes it too easy for someone spamming bullets to shoot everyone that tries to peek around a corner to take a shot.

I just want you to find any number of people who complained about gamers "spamming" with their lean in COD4 online (PC). You likely can't because there is none of all the features in COD4 lean was not a game ruining element it only made the game less frustrating for players who get spammed with bullets from anyone that sees movement.

I mean did you honestly play COD4 online on PC (before you know anything about MW2) and think that lean was a feature that had to be removed since it made the game less enjoyable?

EDIT: I get it this is COD4, but it is a bit much to say MW2 is that different from COD4.

What did IW change in the gameplay in MW2 that has changed the balance away from lean?

EDIT 2: I know I may be being petty about this but this just looks WAY too much like IW saying: "we physically can't implement lean on the consoles... lets leave it out of PC then".

A lot of this is principal and is incredibly hard to argue as it is not a big enough feature to "un-balance the game" yet at the same time it is a feature that is greatly missed because it seems so essential to the very nature of COD.

I mean how can there never be circumstances in MW2 where you are on one side of a corner and the enemy is shooting at you. Surely the game hasn't changed where to stay alive you have to use manoeuvre like in Halo to avoid getting shot.

 

[kibayasu]

I suppose the only way mods would work without dedicated servers would be if everyone playing that paticular match had the exact same mod or mods. But then you get into issues of how they would seperate mods out from each other. If person X has 1 mod and person Y had 3 mods, without a dedicated server, I don't see how the game would seperate those out.

 

[Lordmarkus]

IW, give me Dedicated Servers and I'll forgive you.

Slightly.

 

[Treblaine]

*snip*

I'll say this once, and it applies to everyone, calm down.

Sorry, going back to edit to reduce ass-hattery

 

[Treblaine]

double post, sorry

 

[Doug]

Id forgive them.

Come on, we need to encourage developers to experiment. IW thought that Mods were unnecessary, and that they could make a matchmaking service that would replace dedicated servers. Both thoughts were dismal, dismal failures, which they probably should have realized, seeing how it's not like no one told them. However, far more important then screwing up is the capacity to recognize a mistake and correcting it. Also, if PC Gamers forgive IW when they correct there mistakes, then they will be encouraged to support PC gaming as much as possible. If we give the proverbial, "F you, too little too late", well...they really have no reason to fix there mistakes and improve, do they? If you want IW to act like part of a dynamic community, which we do, we have to be able to forgive and forget when they make mistakes but fix them. If we want them to act like cold and distant corporate entities disconnected from there consumers, then we will keep getting shafted, and they won't notice the drop in revenue while there rolling in their money beds. I suggest that if IW adds mod support and dedicated, everyone who was complaining about IW screwing us over seriously consider taking out your wallets and purchasing the game which you wanted, now with the features you wanted.

Gonna have to go with this post right here.

Yes, IW was a little dismissive and more than a little stupid about the way they acted towards PC gamers, who still turned out in droves to buy their game. I agree with how the community reacted, telling them in no uncertain terms how it felt about essentially getting a direct and crappy port from the consoles.

But, Xanadu is spot on about forgiveness. If they're willing to show repentance and correct their mistakes, grudgingly or not, I think we owe it to them to show approval of actions like that, just as we showed disapproval before. Being an avid PC gamer myself and mostly shunning consoles, I've lately been worried about the future of PC gaming. Flaming developers for making mistakes, and continuing to hate them even if they fix them, is not going to mean good things for PC gaming in the future.

Firstly, "alittle" dismissive?

Secondly, this isn't confirmed AT ALL. And even if it was, dedicated servers are still missing.

but with mods, couldn't third party servers then be supported?

I don't know how deep into the code some mods can go.

It depends on how much access to the code is given. Basically, I really strongly doubt it, especially as IW have been VERY clear that they don't like piracy and IWNet was supposed to stop piracy, so I doubt they'll let modder's remove that code.

"Never mind the customers who actually pay for it, we need to focus all our effort on people who don't give us any money at all!"

Little article I found on the subject [http://www.scribd.com/doc/21995318/Modern-Warfare-2-XBOX-360-Pirated-Downloads-Tally-Projection].

Then there was that 1 million console 360's banned thing which was meant to be connected to pirated copies of MW2, or so the internet would have me believe.

I'll be over here in the corner sniggering to myself at the idea of any system combating piracy effectively.

*snip*

Spoiler: Oh go on, just one more

Again, awesome pic! And as for piracy, you know that, I know that, Infinity ward probably know that, but IW's share holders probably don't or won't accept it.

Stardock accept it and don't even bother trying to copy protect their game asside from having you register for patches. Not sure what Valve do, although they have to implement third party CP support in order to sell other people's games.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Now I'm a consoler so maybe I am wrong, but aren't mod tools useless without dedicated servers to play with them?

 

[Bretty]

Snip

I agree with everything you have said. But I have always thought COD was a arcade FPS and leaning isnt very 'arcady'.

I like more strategic slow, realistic, FPSs and leaning will be in everyone of those that I play, without fail.

I guess the Lean issue just shows a difference in Console players and PC players?

Who knows.

 

[Doug]

Now I'm a consoler so maybe I am wrong, but aren't mod tools useless without dedicated servers to play with them?

Yeah, we were wondering that too.

I suppose they might allow custom maps on private matches, but then each player would have to download a copy of the map from the source player; and I really dunno how big the map files are. Up to 10 MB would probably be alright, but any more than that and it'd take too long to get it all sync'ed up.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

add mod tools and dedicated servers, delivered in a patch(not a separate DLC) and i'll buy the game. anything less won't have any impact on me.

 

[Misnomer]

Once again, another article hostile towards the opinions of seasoned PC gamers. Kudos Escapist.

 

[Amnestic]

Once again, another article hostile towards the opinions of seasoned PC gamers. Kudos Escapist.

As a seasoned PC gamer, I didn't see any real hostility towards us.

 

[Ancientgamer]

God I wish they'd stop letting funk write the MW2 articles. The immature cheap shots are just out of this world.

 

[Supernova2000]

the most inconsequential complaint of all time, the removal of the ability to lean around corners).

Seriously?

You must not play a lot of FPS online if you don't get the importance of leaning. You can live without it, but there is a difference between barely being seen around the corner/shooting a guy then withdrawing like its whack-a-mole .vs. strafing to the side exposing more of your body.
~
As for mod tools...well lets wait for them to come out first...

Absolutely! The absence of it only made gameplay doubly annoying for me on MW2 in particular, as I frequently found myself having to stand there soaking up bullets like a totem pole and I couldn't see what the bloody hell was happening because you take just 2 shots and your whole screen is splattered with blood, all the better to hide the damage direction indicators. Plus it's hardly fair when your AI allies do it all the time and terrorists blind-fire at you from behind partially open doors.

For me: too little, too late Infinity Ward, you've pulled your dick move and the damage is done and I'll not be so quick to buy your games in future. If IW do give us these things back (and it IS the decent thing to do), i'll be grateful of course, even if it is just restoring the status quo.

 

[MR T3D]

the most inconsequential complaint of all time, the removal of the ability to lean around corners).

Seriously?

You must not play a lot of FPS online if you don't get the importance of leaning. You can live without it, but there is a difference between barely being seen around the corner/shooting a guy then withdrawing like its whack-a-mole .vs. strafing to the side exposing more of your body.
~
As for mod tools...well lets wait for them to come out first...

Absolutely! The absence of it only made gameplay doubly annoying for me on MW2 in particular, as I frequently found myself having to stand there soaking up bullets like a totem pole and I couldn't see what the bloody hell was happening because you take just 2 shots and your whole screen is splattered with blood, all the better to hide the damage direction indicators. Plus it's hardly fair when your AI allies do it all the time and terrorists blind-fire at you from behind partially open doors.

For me: too little, too late Infinity Ward, you've pulled your dick move and the damage is done and I'll not be so quick to buy your games in future. If IW do give us these things back (and it IS the decent thing to do), i'll be grateful of course, even if it is just restoring the status quo.

Total agreement, except i'm willing to never by another IW developed game after these events, even if they eventually fix it, give me a free copy AND a BJ.
They could have my ***** but not my money.
no more.
no more.

 

[McGee]

(and a curious stink over the most inconsequential complaint of all time, the removal of the ability to lean around corners).

Sorry.....inconsequential? It's a pretty big deal, especially for snipers. The whole "not balanced for lean" thing is complete BS. They simply didn't feel like putting it in.
Also:

[http://img25.imageshack.us/i/historyoflean1.gif/]

[http://g.imageshack.us/img25/historyoflean1.gif/1/]

 

[Ancientgamer]

Okay, less annoyed now, time to write a proper response.


From one PC gamer to another, I can say I respectfully disagree with your view on leans and the controversies surrounding MW2 in general. Still, it's your call, I'll debate about it, but it doesn't make me angry.

What I refuse to be respectful about, and indeed what I think is generating so much anger is your insistence to shove your opinions down our throat every chance you get. would this article have been exactly the same without your derogatory remark? yes. I'm sorry, but to use a news article to bloviate is absolutely hideous journalism. If you have some rhetoric you want to vent about, please tell me, why couldn't you put it in an editorial?


If you were a forum user you could easily be banned for flame-baiting. As it is I personally think it's because the controversy attracts site hits, as this rapidly expanding thread shows. But regardless, can you honestly say that people have no good reason to be angry? If not for "not balanced for lean", then at you for so brazenly insulting users through the new posts?