Iblis seems to have played too many RPG's and has to think of 'himself' when trying to talk to other people.
Insensitive context - what is an RPG?
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No offense, Iblis, but I'm going to have to go with Maet on this one.
The review itself, as Decoy put it, is fairly well written, interesting, if not a little minimalist in the scope.
But, Maet pegged the tone dead-on, really. The "old man" third-person tone really goes a long way in alienating the readers in such a way that I felt like I was being spoken down to. Likely not your intent, but no less discontenting when read.
That being said, Maet, you were a little harsh. You had a lot of good points, but bringing them up with such antagonism isn't the way to go about it.
That being said, you too Iblis, did such a good job of furthering your condescending tone toward Maet, and that's something that really can't go unmentioned. Overall, this thread is one that represents what interesting topics could be discussed, and how biases can really destroy the mood for everyone.
Thank you, Decoy Doctorpus for being the voice of reason. I'm out.
The review itself, as Decoy put it, is fairly well written, interesting, if not a little minimalist in the scope.
But, Maet pegged the tone dead-on, really. The "old man" third-person tone really goes a long way in alienating the readers in such a way that I felt like I was being spoken down to. Likely not your intent, but no less discontenting when read.
That being said, Maet, you were a little harsh. You had a lot of good points, but bringing them up with such antagonism isn't the way to go about it.
That being said, you too Iblis, did such a good job of furthering your condescending tone toward Maet, and that's something that really can't go unmentioned. Overall, this thread is one that represents what interesting topics could be discussed, and how biases can really destroy the mood for everyone.
Thank you, Decoy Doctorpus for being the voice of reason. I'm out.
one should not translate RPG literally. As has been said, wRPG's and jRPG's are simply descendants from real RPG's like D&D
Knowing when something should not be taken literally is a true sign of intelligence (and one AI dudes have quite some problems with)
Knowing when something should not be taken literally is a true sign of intelligence (and one AI dudes have quite some problems with)
Sorry, old-timer, but video games are programmed; they're mechanical, not philosophical. Best write a novel or something. And FFS make it fiction to accommodate all the third person bollocks.Iblis post=9.71639.734316 said:
Last I heard puppets are mechanical, but Kermit can still sing "It's not easy being green".haruvister post=9.71639.741475 said:
Philosophy of design was what he was speaking of at any rate. IE- the frame of mind used to accomplish the given task, and the feelings evoked by doing as such.
As for the article and resulting posts... the third person usage was irksome in the subsequent posts, but not the original article.
Sorry, I forgot about the fathomless philosophical depths so frequently plumbed by the Muppets.
The fact is he doesn't seem to want limits placed on his imagination, but unfortunately with video games we're rather more confined. He should just deal with it and go and do something else. Like write a book, as I said.
The fact is he doesn't seem to want limits placed on his imagination, but unfortunately with video games we're rather more confined. He should just deal with it and go and do something else. Like write a book, as I said.
Some older RPG's had that feature, where you can type in words and phrases to elicit a response from an NPC, it is -not- fun let me tell you, you could spend ages just trying to figure out the right wording, really irritating imo.kanada514 post=9.71639.741728 said:
However, I disagree (well...not really haha!), you -can- account for every instance and variable. But, and it's a big but, most game developers, I'd go so far as to say all thus far, have not the time, nor the money, nor the inclination to actually do that. And I wouldn't blame them either, to make something of that scale is utterly ridiculous, although I would be impressed by someone that could.
Jrpg's are still good representations of rpg's, what you described are sandbox and open rpg's where your decisions determine your path, but both are fair representations of what is an rpg,a role playing game is a game where you play the role of a character regardless of choices and character personality.
I do have to agree with that weird ibs dude that there's a pretty big difference between wRPG and jRPG... one doesn't give any role-playing freedom while the other doesn't give any story. I wouldn't mind if one of them gets another name.
But young Toby-one-Kenoby does not like the fanboyish tone old ibs uses... besides,
But young Toby-one-Kenoby does not like the fanboyish tone old ibs uses... besides,
Isn't wRPG the niche here? (maybe not in usa then)
Rpg's ie Role Playing Games are RPG's when they include these elements. 1) Growth - they need to include PERMENANT growth based on stats or skills earned by the player for completing chalenges (quests, killing monsters, the Oblvion aproach ie doing what ur trying to improve) and most RPG's, espescially new ones, contain CHOICE- This one is very objective and it ranges from choice between quest lines (Oblivion), Good and Evil (Fable, Mass Effect), character class (ummm like all of them)and so on. All of this is for the purpose of an RPG. In the end you should feel you have undergone an epic journey/strugle and are now better because of it and you should have the HAlo effect of thinking when Moze betrayes you or when Ambassidor Udina stabs you in the back or when you finally kill Manamarco that not Add name here was effected but that YOU were the one affected.
and Ivory agent keeps on getting his ass banned every few days. There's a lesson to be learned there.Ivoryagent post=9.71639.742634 said:
Here's the thing with this particular discussion; if you want toget into the 'philosophies' of rpgs, then one has to realize that they are no longer talking about the GAME or GENRE of games themselves, but delving into the realm of meta-gaming. And it's in this realm that satisfaction with ANY game will be found. Game developers, simply put cannot get any person to care.
I am defining caring at this point loosely as the desire or need to dissociate from one's actual self and to associate with any one particular character or group of characters, as well as their background and general world view. Now, without the player's own decision to 'care' about a particular game, there can be no immersion, no meta-game where one makes the choices themselves as far as advancement through the understood universal goals of said game, instead of being carried by the game without deciding whether or not to advance.
The meta-game is where it's at. THAT is what true immersion into a game is. Say for example, I'm playing FFVII and i decide that I personally am too shaken by a certain someone's death to continue playing the game, that's where the meta-game comes in. When I allow myself to connect with what's going on so deeply that i have to put it away to deal with what's going on (or conversely continue on relentlessly to seek justice), that's when I personally have crossed the rubicon and assumed the role myself.
In summary, If you can't connect to the game, can't play the role...perhaps it's not the game at all, perhaps it's you!
I am defining caring at this point loosely as the desire or need to dissociate from one's actual self and to associate with any one particular character or group of characters, as well as their background and general world view. Now, without the player's own decision to 'care' about a particular game, there can be no immersion, no meta-game where one makes the choices themselves as far as advancement through the understood universal goals of said game, instead of being carried by the game without deciding whether or not to advance.
The meta-game is where it's at. THAT is what true immersion into a game is. Say for example, I'm playing FFVII and i decide that I personally am too shaken by a certain someone's death to continue playing the game, that's where the meta-game comes in. When I allow myself to connect with what's going on so deeply that i have to put it away to deal with what's going on (or conversely continue on relentlessly to seek justice), that's when I personally have crossed the rubicon and assumed the role myself.
In summary, If you can't connect to the game, can't play the role...perhaps it's not the game at all, perhaps it's you!
Game developers have exactly that goal. How to shape the player experience to make them care ^^RedElectric post=9.71639.742894 said:
There's a difference between making a gamer care, and giving the gamer something that they want to care about. My assertion still stands.tobyornottoby post=9.71639.743538 said:
EDIT: Let me further sharpen my definition. What I'm saying is that Game Devs cannot make a game whereby the gamer has NO CHOICE but to care. Just simple human basics. One person ultimately cannot make a decision FOR another.
Everything that is true is practical unusable, everything that is practical is theoretically untrueRedElectric post=9.71639.743645 said:
(but the you're right, the first one suits the tread better than the second)
This hit the nail on the head. I somewhat agree that conversations concerning RPGs in gaming do break down to chats about JRPGs far too often. JRPGs are hardly RPGs by any definition, you do not get the statistic manipulation over you characters, the story (the role) and the game (the playing) are often two totally distinctive elements, and without fail JRPGs are almost completely directed in direction.kanada514 post=9.71639.741728 said:
What JRPGs do have is exceptional story and script resulting in empathy for the characters within the game, and a mechanism of play that will allow anyone to win the game regardless of skill level. This results in the empathy with the characters that is embodied in RPG play, and the strong story driven world is also an important part of RPG play.
I am not sure if I agree with the original post's assumption that custom avatars add to this and I am always frustrated by the assumption of WRPG developers that the inclusion of semi statistics makes a game an RPG.
I have experienced a couple true RPGs in video game. One is Blade Runner, I always plug that title, more games need to model their world construction which emphasizes results and consequences in more than a secondary / sub-story capacity. The Sword in the Stone for the Apple II had this quality about it a well. Likely because of its contained world size, small variables seemed to have a large impact. A number of classic text titles were very much like this as well. But directed game-play is the norm anymore.
While the criticism that a discussion of RPGs should include more than just JRPG references is valid(and we all know Susan's niche after reading that article) the point of the article was more global than that and holds true for all RPG styled titles east or west. She is the only name mentioned on this thread who has received a paycheque from the Escapist, so that already demonstrates she knows better.