'[Insert genre I don't like] isn't real music'!

Vault101

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wadark said:
If the argument is, "Such and such is not ART" then that's a lot harder to answer. Art means different things to different people, and what qualifies as art is different in people's eyes.
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which is pretty much the same as saying "its crap" but for whoever says that thats not enough, they have to assert their musical authority and claim it "not music/art"

music is the most subjective/abstract mainstream things.....saying somthing is "not art" generally is ridiculous
 

spartan231490

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Cuz they lack some or all of the traditional components of music. Rhythm, melody, harmony, beat, flow ect. Rap lacks melody and harmony(typically), dubstep typically lacks harmony and flow, Dance techno is all beat, ect. They lack the components of music, and therefore shouldn't be called music. Unless you think we should come up with a new name for the genres that do have those components, instead of a name for those that don't. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't make them bad. I like dance techno, and even some dubstep, but they aren't music.
 

spartan231490

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OhJohnNo said:
snipIt's similar to singing in that way - lots of singers don't give a shit about the message their lyrics deliver
snip
you know nothing about singing. Singing and music in general is all about the message, just like any form of art. You have obviously never taken even a high school chorus class, let alone a singing lesson, because the instructor in either one would have told you how important it is to focus on the message. When I took vocal lessons, we spent 2 weeks doing nothing but warm-ups and visualizing the message. The only singers who "don't give a shit about the message their lyrics deliver" are amateurs.
 

lacktheknack

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spartan231490 said:
OhJohnNo said:
snipIt's similar to singing in that way - lots of singers don't give a shit about the message their lyrics deliver
snip
you know nothing about singing. Singing and music in general is all about the message, just like any form of art. You have obviously never taken even a high school chorus class, let alone a singing lesson, because the instructor in either one would have told you how important it is to focus on the message. When I took vocal lessons, we spent 2 weeks doing nothing but warm-ups and visualizing the message. The only singers who "don't give a shit about the message their lyrics deliver" are amateurs.
wat

So are you saying that atheists cannot validly sing classical sacred music?

Because that's exactly what you're putting across.
 

lacktheknack

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spartan231490 said:
Cuz they lack some or all of the traditional components of music. Rhythm, melody, harmony, beat, flow ect. Rap lacks melody and harmony(typically), dubstep typically lacks harmony and flow, Dance techno is all beat, ect. They lack the components of music, and therefore shouldn't be called music. Unless you think we should come up with a new name for the genres that do have those components, instead of a name for those that don't. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't make them bad. I like dance techno, and even some dubstep, but they aren't music.
You can't just call something "non-music" because it doesn't have a few staples.

When I played piano, I played some studies that had no melody. Are those not music?

I played some beautiful stuff from Alexina Louie that has no bars, beats or structure. Does she write not-music?

I played some toccatinas that had no harmony, beat, rhythm, or even distinctive melody, but were still interesting to hear and difficult to play. Are you going to tell me that the great Jeno Tacaks didn't write music?

Hell, I played Bach pieces with no harmony or distinctive rhythm. Are you going to tell me that a good chunk of FREAKING JOHANN SEBASTIEN BACH'S stuff isn't music?

That's stupid.

And what's the point of labeling it "non-music" anyways? Does it do anything for you beyond give you an "oh-so-controversial" opinion? Why would you want to be so incredibly pedantic as to start dividing what people listen to on their iPods into "music" and "non-music" when it all has the same goddamned effect?
 

repeating integers

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spartan231490 said:
OhJohnNo said:
snipIt's similar to singing in that way - lots of singers don't give a shit about the message their lyrics deliver
snip
you know nothing about singing. Singing and music in general is all about the message, just like any form of art. You have obviously never taken even a high school chorus class, let alone a singing lesson, because the instructor in either one would have told you how important it is to focus on the message. When I took vocal lessons, we spent 2 weeks doing nothing but warm-ups and visualizing the message. The only singers who "don't give a shit about the message their lyrics deliver" are amateurs.
Riiiiiiiiiight.

So, unless you're operating under a different definition of the word "message" to me, this...

<youtube=ciGKA_NjPoE>

and this...

<youtube=-Tdu4uKSZ3M>

and this...

<youtube=s2VzLn6DMCE>

and this...

<youtube=8GcjQDllMOw>

are... what, exactly? Not real singing? Amateurs? Bad? By message do you mean what I'm referring to as "atmosphere"?
 

saintdane05

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1. an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color.
2. the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both.
3. musical work or compositions for singing or playing.
4. the written or printed score of a musical composition.
5. such scores collectively.

That is music.
 

Xdeser2

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Pretty much happens all the time

Same with:

Stop liking what I dont like!

You Belief is wrong because its not mine!

Your Brainless because you dont play the types of Games I like!

In other News Grass is green. Sports @ 11
 

General Ken8

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I wouldn't go as far as to say something isn't music, but there are bands like Blood on the Dancefloor that obviously a lot of people would consider garbage, just due to its simplicity and lack of meaning.

But really the same has been said about art, literature, and a lot of other mediums, it's not just music. For example, the other day on TV I saw a guy buy a painting of (literally) a red square for $14000. A lot of people would say that's ridiculous, just because it'd be easy to reproduce with little to no artistic ability, but you just know there are probably more people who would have paid even more
 

MisterGobbles

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Phuctifyno said:
MisterGobbles said:
I'll say what I was told by a music teacher of mine: sheet music isn't actually "music", because music is what you hear with your ear; it's sound organized through time. Kinda like the blueprints for a house aren't actually a house, but are useful in creating it. Of course, when you play the notes written on the sheet, it becomes music, so it's just as valid as anything else, it just requires a bit more work on your part.
Yeah, I can see how that's true in a physical sense. Like a tree falling in the woods actually doesn't make a sound unless there's an eardrum nearby to catch the vibrations, which otherwise are just wasted. But consider that we can imitate the sensation of hearing things, to an extent, within our minds. When you read words you can imagine hearing them as you read, so if you can read music, you could imagine hearing it as well.

Now I'm thinking of that scene in Amadeus where Mozart is sick in bed, dictating Requiem to Salieri, who's just writing it all down furiously while the music swells (in the score, unplayed to the characters), then they cum all over the place. Or Mozart dies. I forget which. [small]Spoilers?[/small]
Yeah. And it's gonna be called "music" by musicians anyway, because what the hell else are you going to call it? Sightreading music is hard enough though, actually just looking at it and hearing the notes in your head is some crazy hard stuff. You have to have perfect pitch for one. But I'm pretty sure that there are people that can do it, so that's valid enough.

Really, I just came back to post this though:

 

Luna

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Music is rehearsed sound. I don't think I can think of a more suitable definition. Everything on the charts today is technically music, regardless of it's quality.
 

lacktheknack

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Luna said:
Music is rehearsed sound. I don't think I can think of a more suitable definition. Everything on the charts today is technically music, regardless of it's quality.
What about improvised music?
 

mitchell271

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Tuesday Night Fever said:
I'll admit I've yet to hear an example of dubstep, rap, or death metal that I actually like - and I'm unlikely to bother giving them any more chances by choice. But I'm not going to say none of it is music just because I don't like it. That's absurd.
Try this, it's The Axe by a French technical death metal band called Gojira. They made the album of the year for 2012.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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spartan231490 said:
Cuz they lack some or all of the traditional components of music. Rhythm, melody, harmony, beat, flow ect. Rap lacks melody and harmony(typically), dubstep typically lacks harmony and flow, Dance techno is all beat, ect. They lack the components of music, and therefore shouldn't be called music. Unless you think we should come up with a new name for the genres that do have those components, instead of a name for those that don't. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't make them bad. I like dance techno, and even some dubstep, but they aren't music.
what good does "not" calling them music do anyway? I mean really? they are recorded, produced, packed and sold off (or put in itunes) and occasionally played live alongside every other piece of "actual" music there is, its not like people shouldn't be calling them music like it spreads misinformation....and you'll have a hard time getting everyone to agree that they aren't music

also you wouldnt want to imply they dont take skill/talent to make
 

Luna

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lacktheknack said:
Luna said:
Music is rehearsed sound. I don't think I can think of a more suitable definition. Everything on the charts today is technically music, regardless of it's quality.
What about improvised music?
It's a tough call. If we include improvised music in then music is no longer even exclusively rehearsed sound, just sound. I could record the audio of myself taking a dump and claim it's music and it would be. Maybe it is.
 

lacktheknack

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Luna said:
lacktheknack said:
Luna said:
Music is rehearsed sound. I don't think I can think of a more suitable definition. Everything on the charts today is technically music, regardless of it's quality.
What about improvised music?
It's a tough call. If we include improvised music in then music is no longer even exclusively rehearsed sound, just sound. I could record the audio of myself taking a dump and claim it's music and it would be. Maybe it is.
I always figured intent was the key.

Therefore, your dump would only be music if you MEANT for it to be so.

But at that point, I can simply say "Your music is terrible and cannot get its messages and emotions across accurately."
 

lacktheknack

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mitchell271 said:
Tuesday Night Fever said:
I'll admit I've yet to hear an example of dubstep, rap, or death metal that I actually like - and I'm unlikely to bother giving them any more chances by choice. But I'm not going to say none of it is music just because I don't like it. That's absurd.
Try this, it's The Axe by a French technical death metal band called Gojira. They made the album of the year for 2012.
I think you're badly misunderstanding what people mean by "I don't like death metal". What they mean is they dislike the tropes and standards of death metal. Showing them the "best that death metal has to offer" isn't doing them any favors. If anything, they'll hate it more than normal, because it's a splendid example of the tropes and standards that they already dislike.

For example, I'm gonna go ahead and say that my favorite song this year is "Starships" by Nicki Minaj. However, if you don't like pop music, I'm aware that Ms. Minaj is going to do precisely squat to convince you otherwise, no matter how excellent of a pop song Starships is.
 

loc978

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Every once in awhile I find one I agree with in this case. Pretty much just the performances of long silence and spoken word with no rhythm, rhyme or instrumental backing. Every other genre I've encountered I'd pretty much agree is music... even if I don't like the stuff.
 

shadow_Fox81

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well i don't think dance music is real music.

I think this because "Dance" means that the music must be a piece you can dance to. it Means that the music is no longer defined by its musical quality but its quality to be danced to.

Most often i think people will deny a genre musicality based on its disconect with a preconcieved idea of music. an example being metal heads generally despise rap and vice versa. Rap vocal are clear concise and take precedent over the instruments, while in metal lyrics are vague almost uninteligable and instruments take precedent. you can see clearly a defined disconect in musical definitions.

Now i prefer music which defies genre classification,which is why i cannot stomach dance its defined by its genre title and what requirement that exerts on the creators of dance music.

thats why i think dance creates so many sub genres that move away from dance (i love many of these), because dance is creatively stifling.

but thats just me, i might be wrong.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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I used to be a bit like that with art. I don't like it when someone throws paint around and exhibits the wall, or paints a canvas red and uses no skill other than picking the damn shade of red they use. But then I had an epiphany...it can be art without being good, or meaningful, or well-crafted, or in good taste. So now I'm much more comfortable saying a toilet is art, because my views allow it to be stupid at the same time. Art, or music, or games or whatever are not a collection of the best examples of their medium. They are umbrella terms, and if you don't like something in it, it doesn't mean you have to exclude it from the medium. Probably helps that I'm not passionate about one music genre over another, but that's how I see it.