InstantAction CEO Says Retailers "Horribly Abuse" the Industry
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
What!? A retailer using backhanded tactics to make extra money!? Unheard of!
God forbid game developers try to find ways to convince gamers to buy their games before they're on the used games shelves.
God forbid game developers try to find ways to convince gamers to buy their games before they're on the used games shelves.
This guy can get stuffed. I like my brick-and-mortar retail game stores. Not all of us can resort to digital distribution to get our games. Hell, I'd love to work in a retail game store one day. It'd be a hell of a lot more fun than working at a supermarket or a bookstore.
He is just promoting his little website with a scandal. Or is trying to.
That, or, he is an idiot.
That, or, he is an idiot.
Yet another developer talking out of their ass with really no facts beyond what they want to use to support their argument. This guy seriously has not bothered to look at the big picture. Probably has never worked in a videogame store or even knows anybody who has. I really wouldn't mind hearing someone in the games industry say something coherent and not crackpipe-induced for a change.
If this attitude continues we can only look forward to higher game prices and more actions that would only result in game consumers getting screwed. It is like a disease.
If this attitude continues we can only look forward to higher game prices and more actions that would only result in game consumers getting screwed. It is like a disease.
Something this wag isn't bothering to think of. He would rather just start putting restrictions in. A nice quick fix.Lvl 64 Klutz said:
They're killing the goose that lays the golden egg, cooking it, and then feeding their family with it so their family doesn't starve and die.
Man, that is evil.
....wait a tick.
Man, that is evil.
....wait a tick.
Dexter111 said:Wow, this has to be the first time (or so) I actually agree with one of those articles xD
I'm not from the US and buying "used" games is frowned in parts of the EU... Personally, I only buy new games or not at all...
Rentals are fine though, I won't debate those here
What I don't understand is the mindset of the people in the Seller and Buyer position...
As far as I understand it from what I've heard of "GameStop" is that they buy games from people for 5-15$ and then sell them for 45-55$ (only 5-10$ short of the original list price)...
Now here comes my dilemma:
As a seller: If there are people willing to spend 45-55$ on used games, why not sell it to them using eBay or other Auction tools instead of selling it for points and an ice-cream and get you know... actual money...
As a buyer: If the price-difference of a new and used copy is only ~5$ why in hell would you get that one, knowingly that the actual developers/publishers (e.g. the people who made the game you like enough to buy) will get nothing out of it and the money made will all go to the retailer?
1. There are just as many people willing to scam you on your ebay game selling as there are willing to pay that much.. but here's the kicker.. people aren't willing to pay that much either.
2. $5 bucks off a used copy won't make me get the game unless the new copy cost $20. Even then, its a rip off. Most games at Gamestop are $20-$30 off for current generation titles, and $35+ for older less rare games.
They even have a bin of $1-$3 games. Games that sold for $40-$50 dollars new.
I see a game like Assassin Creed and Assassin creed 2, and I won't pay more than $20 for them. They are repetitive, middle-age versions of Hitman. While I respect them enough to try them out, I won't be sitting in line at midnight looking to pick them up.
Other reasons are purely financial. Here's a small sample of the games I want to pick up: AC2, Batman:AA, Both PS3 Ratchet + Clank games, Halo ODST, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Madworld, Super Street fighter 4, Uncharted 2, Bayonetta, Beatles Rockband, Supreme Commander 2, No More Heroes, Borderlands, Devil May Cry 4, Lair, Blue Dragon, Nighty Nine Nights, White Knight Chronicles, Fable 2, and on and on and on.
Imagine if I had bought each of those games for $65- $55 dollars. $180 for Beatles Rock band.
I'd rather not.
Really not as much fun as you think, but anyway on topic.ffs-dontcare said:
Like everyone else as said here there is a used market for pretty much everything that isn't food. I've worked in a gamestore for about 2 years now and i've seen how much money is made off the new titles and consoles, and its complete BS. i've also seen games that have been traded in the very next day due to the game being a waste of space. also, a game that trades in for 5-15 bucks is not gonna be sold for 50-55, also pay attention to deals when trading in games, a month or so ago i traded in 4 games for well over 100 bucks because i happened to be in during a good trade in deal (was seriously a fluke, hours were bad so i wasn't working that week.) also have to remember though, a used limited edition copy of a game doesn't neccessarily come with the limited edition items, especially if they're scratch off codes or something like that, so easy solution, include a bonus item people want with a new copy of the game.
This is quite true, but there's a difference between used furniture and new furniture, used cars and new cars, and so on - unless the physical media has been scratched to oblivion (in which case it really shouldn't have been resold at all), there is no difference between used software and new software. There are no dog eared corners or coffee stains, no tears in the upholstery, no weird smells or engine problems - you'll probably be missing the original packaging and the manual but most people throw those away anyways.Matt_LRR said:
So you have an identical product that the retailers can keep selling over and over and over, buying it back each time for a pittance, all the while netting the creators zilch. The media might wear out through abuse, but games themselves never do, since what you are selling is just data.
I agree that expecting to see revenue from any re-sale of your product is an unreasonable expectation, but it's another thing to be aggravated at a supposed 'partner' when their business model seems specifically designed to undermine your sales figures by selling the same damn units over and over and over. Retailers of video-games really have become parasites, simply pointing out that used markets exist for everything else isn't a very good rebuttal.
Oookay then... shame he doesn't really give any specifics on how they're killing the industry... "taking all the money out of the industry"? wtf? There's BILLIONS worth of dollars in the video game industry!
I'd like to point out one or two things that rarely get mentioned in these threads.
First off the vast majority of people that buy used games are the same people that 10-15 years ago would wait a 6 months to a year after the game was released for the price drop. They are also the same people that would also wait for the title to come out as a "Best of" title which also was reduced price.
Secondly I would like to point out that in order for a game to be sold used, it wold have to be bought new in the first place. Some one all ready had to bought the game, played it, then sold it back to the retailer in order for it to be resold. If a game is really good, then it is more then likely that copies of it will be really hard to come across used. Such examples are the Original .Hack, Xenogears, Suikoden 1-3, and prety much any of the Shin Magami Tensei series.
If developers really want to put a stop to the used games market then how about putting out games that people don't want to give away after playing it one time.
First off the vast majority of people that buy used games are the same people that 10-15 years ago would wait a 6 months to a year after the game was released for the price drop. They are also the same people that would also wait for the title to come out as a "Best of" title which also was reduced price.
Secondly I would like to point out that in order for a game to be sold used, it wold have to be bought new in the first place. Some one all ready had to bought the game, played it, then sold it back to the retailer in order for it to be resold. If a game is really good, then it is more then likely that copies of it will be really hard to come across used. Such examples are the Original .Hack, Xenogears, Suikoden 1-3, and prety much any of the Shin Magami Tensei series.
If developers really want to put a stop to the used games market then how about putting out games that people don't want to give away after playing it one time.
I don't know what retailer you work for but Gamestop itself makes more money than almost every big budget publisher. You didn't see all this backlash for the many years used games were being sold at reasonable prices because people still bought new games; back then a used game was an impulse purchase. You would say, it's only $5 so I'll get that AND the new game I was planning on getting. Now people buy a used game at $50 and think, well that's all I'm buying for right now.uppitycracker said:
Stores with schemes like Gamestop are bad for the publishers and the consumers. The publishers recognize it but it seems that consumers are more than happy to put up with being ripped off as long as the moron behind the counter is willing to pretend to be their friend. And this is why gamers are considered the biggest suckers this side of new car lots; we get scammed and come back asking for more.
However, I disagree that gamestop (and the like) are the only ones to blame. They have to take some responsibility themselves. I know I started renting after buying a couple of really poorly made games that everyone was raving about. I think the reason people rent and trade is because some games just aren't worth $60 but that's the price (more or less) they're all sold at. If some of the shorter (and less resource heavy) games were cheaper, people would probably take a chance more often.
I think they should also have a bone to pick with the console makers as well. There are a lot less ps3 and 360 owners than there were/are ps2 xbox owners. Both consoles are really expensive and I know a lot of gamers who just wont buy either because one has horrible hardware problems and the other has horrible support problems. Most people I know with a next gen console have a wii and that has a really bad software attach rate.
So what it comes down to is that everyone has to clean up their act. The retailers have to stop gouging prices and make new games more available (yes, even to those who didn't pre-order), the publishers either have to lower the launch prices or start making more games that are actually worth $60, and the console makers have to either start making more affordable consoles or make ones that work and are updated with new features.
Aside from calling him an asshat, I don't think there's really anything else to say to that than this:Andy Chalk said:
Except that there's little evidence that it is actually the case that the model actually undermines new sales. Most used game retailers drive used trade in through promotional deals on pre-order and new release titles - these deals facilitate higher rates of day 1 sales of new games than the publishers would see in the absence of trades.Gildan Bladeborn said:
Take that trade in option away and full-price sales will necessarily drop. A sizable portion of the people who would have taken advantage of the trade promo to buy the game new, will simply wait until the game has seen significant price reductions. (What that portion actually amounts to, I admittedly don't know). It's the same as saying that every pirated copy of a game is a lost sale - no they aren''t many of the people who pirated the game did so because they were unwilling to pay for it, and so given the option of not paying and going without or buying the game at a cost, they will opt to go without.
Every used game was a new sale at one point. The majority of used games are post-prime titles. The majority of used game trades facilitate new game purchases. A large number of game trades provide financing of additional game purchases that (new or used) the consumer couldn't have afforded to purchase without.
Trade ins and used sales are good for the consumer (questions of fairness in pricing aside), and good for the market. They may not be great for publishers loooking to milk every possible dime out of consumers, but they're not exactly hard done by.
-m
Yeah, shut down the retailers! You know, the guys who make sure that people buy your product? We don't need them!
god they are fucking stupid.....
god they are fucking stupid.....
And none of them are ridiculously cutthroat as used games. The profit margins at places like Gamestop are insane. Let's compare!Matt_LRR said:
New DVD: $15-20 (considering single disc, no collections)
Used DVD: $5-7
Price used DVDs are bought for: $3-5
I will point out this is what GAMESTOP uses for DVDs even. No other rental stores near me to poll for information.
New Game: $60
Used Game: $55
Price used games are bought for: $15-35
MW2 used copies the day after launch were bought for $35, typically the highest Gamestop will go. If you don't seem the problem here, you're a crazy person and not worth my time.
And to the people saying "well fuck him for us being frugal shoppers." You're also insane. He's stating that new copies should be primarily purchased, and he is correct. It's on YOU to do research into games you want. If you don't do that and buy a game that is utter garbage, YOU ARE TO BLAME. I have not once been disastisified with a game purchase, because any game I take an interest in I bother to gather some info on to see if I will like it. If you are too lazy to do this or buy compulsively, it is all your own fault.
Agreed, I cannot understand why they feel the need to constantly whine about it. I mean, I love whining as much as the next person, but seriously, I've heard enough of people complaining about the used game industry.Matt_LRR said:
Personally I'd much rather buy used games from people selling theirs online - that way, neither the publishers nor the retailers get any of my money. Unless it's a developer I actually want to give my money to, but since EA bought out BioWare those types are pretty thin on the ground these days.