Is it possible for an elitist to fit in with the masses? How?

murrow

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You know, at first glance I thought you meant you had 16 years of experience in the gaming industry, and had authored visual novels. My first question would be how you lasted for so long being so aloof towards your end-consumer.

But I'll bite. There's two things about your dilemma that I learned the hard way. Might as well pass them to you.

First, if no one cares about what you know, your knowledge is not that interesting to begin with. Second, the best way to change your mind about your own superiority is to pick up a fight with people your size. Anyone feels like a genius when surrounded by neophytes. Want to prove yourself? Go after the real deal and tell them who's boss. You'll likely get your ass handed back to you, and it will feel amazing.
 

Eclipse Dragon

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If you want "the masses" to like you, first off, if I were in your shoes, I would reconsider how I go about presenting myself. As others have pointed out "elitist" is not the right word to use, it has negative connotations. This is all of course assuming you're not...

Sung-Hwan said:
feigning stupidity and being an asshole
The way you speak really gets on people's nerves. If that's the way you interact with others in your day to day life, maybe you should work on your social skills?
 

Lethos

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San Martin said:
I have a similar dilemma to Sung-Hwan. With over twenty years' experience obsessively watching hundreds of Colombian soap operas, I find it nearly impossible to interact with most people, who are ignorant and useless when it comes to Colombian soap operas. I've tried to explain to people why they're inferior -because they haven't spent as much time watching Colombian soap operas as I have-, but rarely does anyone wish to learn from my wisdom and encyclopaedic knowledge of Colombia and its soap operas.

Maybe I could try feignng stupidity and being an asshole, like the average person who doesn't watch Colombian soap operas?
I love you.

OP sounds like he's currently going through his origin story that will lead him to becoming a super villain.
 

Dansen

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Mar 24, 2010
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I don't know how people are still able to respond to these threads. He has made this same thread so many times before during these past few weeks. Its some sort of performance art/satire of nerd culture. Look at his name for gods sake if you rearrange the first two letters of the names you get Hung-Swan.

If you think you are better than other people and it show, they wont like you. Sixteen years should be long enough to learn this.
 

Bellvedere

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Hehe well you definitely fit the bill for elitist. But really, other that stating that you're an expert you haven't really done much to demonstrate it.

People start to respect you as an expert or a veteran when you do helpful things that prove it. Being an active board member who contributes answers, resources, recommendations is a pretty good way. Of course if you're condescending about it then regardless of how good your info is, you still won't seem helpful at all. Funnily enough this is also a pretty good way to understand "the masses" and particularly novices to the medium. Pretending that you're a novice while only have "a gist" about how novices understand the medium is pretty darn pointless because you're not actually emulating novices, and are in fact just being a dick (most likely given you're understanding of the behavior of "casuals"). So you're probably learning how different communities respond to trolls rather than how communities respond to novices or actually engaging with novices yourself...
 

Sung-Hwan

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leberkaese said:
I wonder how being an 'elitists' for animuu and mangers conflicts with talking to people with less 'experience'? Do you need to correct them when they like an anime that's acttually supposed to be called a bad anime? Do they mistakes in interpreting the story, while episode 45 clearly shows something different?

Your problem possibly is that you think about those people as being inferior while they're not. They have watched less anime than you and therefore they have a completely different opinion about it. There's nothing to feel superior about a hobby that's experienced subjectively.
Most people feel it, if someone thinks he's superior in something. You have to be a good liar to hide this.

If you can't change that way of thinking and you want to talk to people about this stuff you probably should find people that watched as many anime as you did. You can talk to those on the same level.

But now to your actual concern: if you don't like the stuff mainstream likes, you don't have to try enjoying it. Because it won't work. If all your friends love Sword Art Online and you don't get how somebody can enjoy that, you'll probably never like it. If your friends adore Call of Duty and Fifa while you're hating it... you probably won't become part of mainstream audience.
Having had light to moderate experience with mediums such as films and some Western animation, I don't think there's any difference in elitism in regards to anime. If you have the experience to back it up, you have the supposed authority to criticize others for not liking what you like, liking aspects of the industry that aren't healthy, etc.
 

Casual Shinji

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Sung-Hwan said:
If you have the experience to back it up, you have the supposed authority to criticize others for not liking what you like, liking aspects of the industry that aren't healthy, etc.
Yeah, you keep thinking that, buddy. And enjoy those cold shoulders, because you'll be getting them aplenty. Have fun feeling superior liking anime and videogames. Maybe one day you can erect a statue in your own honor using popsicle sticks or something.
 

Albino Boo

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San Martin said:
I have a similar dilemma to Sung-Hwan. With over twenty years' experience obsessively watching hundreds of Colombian soap operas, I find it nearly impossible to interact with most people, who are ignorant and useless when it comes to Colombian soap operas. I've tried to explain to people why they're inferior -because they haven't spent as much time watching Colombian soap operas as I have-, but rarely does anyone wish to learn from my wisdom and encyclopaedic knowledge of Colombia and its soap operas.

Maybe I could try feigning stupidity and being an asshole, like the average person who doesn't watch Colombian soap operas?
You are my inferior, you only have an encyclopaedic knowledge of Colombia and its soap operas. I have 30 years of watching Bolivian soap operas that are in the Quechuan languages. You pathetic mainstream generalist, your interests are common.
 

TakerFoxx

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Well, on the upside, at least the hole that Zeel left behind is on its way to being filled. A pity that that nexus guy got banned so quickly though. He could've been a good replacement for EN.
 

Vault101

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oh...oh god I can't

this is srs business guise

ummm....alright actual answer: I'm not adverse to the idea of "elitism" in a sense that its all contextual, now its importance in the real world depends...
 

Hero in a half shell

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Sung-Hwan said:
Note: Elitist not in the bad sense, but someone with much more knowledge and experience than the lost.

With over sixteen years worth of experience in gaming and its sub mediums,
Just one question - is that sixteen years actual experience of gaming, or are you 16 years old and therefore took your experience as beginning at birth, because there is a huge difference there.

Not to knock 16 year olds, Mozart achieved more for the advancement of human culture by that age than I likely ever will in my lifetime, but very very few of us are Mozart.


If you have trouble getting people to accept your anecdotal experience in subjects you have a good knowledge of remember that on the internet we are all pretty much anonymous, and so personal experience (or "It's this way because I say so, and I'm smarter than you") will not hold any water with whoever you are discussing (and please, aim to discuss on the internet, never argue - discussions are a 2 way conversation that bring forth evidence and counter-evidence, and weigh up the pros and cons of each. Arguments merely build up egos as you cockslap your opponent with your E-peen and only serve to make people more hostile to your point.)

Instead of resting on your experience as evidence of your viewpoint, use links to Youtube videos, online articles, personal quotes, commentaries, interviews, Wikipedia etc. to get your point across. Personal experience and anecdotes don't matter on the internet because we can literally make anything up. If you are superior and your viewpoint is right then odds are you will find a more reputable source to prove this.
 

cathou

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Sung-Hwan said:
Barbas said:
Sung-Hwan said:
Maybe it's a bad approach, but how do I let "inferiors" know I am better than them without getting them upset? Like a respect your elders kind of thing, without too much antagonism. I feel like every time I have to write something, I have to introduce myself by letting people know of my status, but it doesn't get much attention.
You don't, because they're not your inferiors for having watched less anime than you. It's as simple as finding people who may or may not share your interests, then broadening your interests over time by doing so. Just being proud of how much of something you've done isn't going to do you any good if you can't explain what you've learned from the experience.
That's the thing, I try to tell people why they're wrong or inferior based off what I learned from my time in the medium, but it often goes on deaf ears. I've also tried writing to be taken more seriously.

first, thinking that others are inferior, is not a good way to start. Only dicks thinks that better than the others. having 16 years experience in gaming doesnt give you the absolute truth.

saying that 10 is greater than 5, yes you can know that, and i cannot argue with you, because it's true. it's a fact.

Saying that X videogame (or anime) is better than Y videogame, is an opinion. You can try to show me why you think that, and you can argue why you thik i'm wrong, but in the end, it would only be your opinion. Your opinion is not better than mine because you have 16 years of experience in videogames and i only have 2 years for exemple.
 

visiblenoise

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Dansen said:
I don't know how people are still able to respond to these threads. He has made this same thread so many times before during these past few weeks. Its some sort of performance art/satire of nerd culture. Look at his name for gods sake if you rearrange the first two letters of the names you get Hung-Swan.

If you think you are better than other people and it show, they wont like you. Sixteen years should be long enough to learn this.
Yea...I feel like people are scared of getting banned, so even threads like this turn into a lively discussion. With eloquently expressed points of view.

I dunno about the hung swan thing, though.
 

Fox12

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You know, it must be lonely on the mountain.

We would join you, if only we could reach.
 

Fappy

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Daystar Clarion said:
Sung-Hwan said:
Barbas said:
Sung-Hwan said:
Maybe it's a bad approach, but how do I let "inferiors" know I am better than them without getting them upset? Like a respect your elders kind of thing, without too much antagonism. I feel like every time I have to write something, I have to introduce myself by letting people know of my status, but it doesn't get much attention.
You don't, because they're not your inferiors for having watched less anime than you. It's as simple as finding people who may or may not share your interests, then broadening your interests over time by doing so. Just being proud of how much of something you've done isn't going to do you any good if you can't explain what you've learned from the experience.
That's the thing, I try to tell people why they're wrong or inferior based off what I learned from my time in the medium, but it often goes on deaf ears. I've also tried writing to be taken more seriously.
Step one, referring to people as inferior is the kind of asshole thing you should avoid in future.

Not everyone can devote all of their time to their hobbies, some of us have jobs and social lives to juggle along with it, alienating everyone because they're 'inferior' is a sure fire way to not endear yourself to anyone.
Unless you're trying to endear yourself to Daystar. He likes being abused.

It gets him off ;)

OP: Gonna have to agree with most of the people in this thread. You've got a rather immature outlook on this whole thing. "Inferior" is the last way you want to describe someone if you're looking for more friends.
 

Armadox

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*sucks in air, and tries to place this in context* I.. am not actually sure where to go with the original topic, but I suggest that you neither use the word elitist nor veteran when describing yourself. Elitism requires you to form an elite, i.e. a group of like thinking people who happen to have knowledge, skill, wealth or power that props them up above the masses. And knowledge something exists is not necessarily enough to be considered above the masses, as a wiki check and a day could see me on equal footing on any topic related to your knowledge base.

Nor, mind you, would I suggest calling yourself a veteran, as to be a veteran at something you have to be able to do something with the acquired knowledge or skills. What is it you have done with what you know, Sung-Hwan? What accolades can be spun from your knowledge of "gaming and its sub mediums, several hundreds worth of anime seen, ongoing activity in visual novels, overall knowledge, and experience as a partial writer for specific groups." Do you ply this as a trade? Do you teach those whom are to poor or to tired to spend as much time and resources as you anime?

Here's the issue I have with this post, you either understand what you have is worthless and you have chosen to build a shrine to it, or you are literally, genuinely baffled by social norms in which case you deserve neither title; you are an anti-social.

Now that we've properly defined you, allow us to reevaluate your question; Is it possible for an anti-social to fit in with the masses?

The short answer is very easy: by definition no. The long answer is where we get into the bread and butter of this post. Not if you don't want to, and find those who have different lives, pleasures, hobbies and knowledge as beneath you. The trick to handling the masses is being open to dealing with conversations that don't pertain to what you find fun, then if you have an opening and are friendly about it you can suggest a conversation that allows you to talk about things you do find fun. Try not to do this at length however, as this will cause your audience to become bored.

In debating things with random people, I recommend applying detailed resources on verifiable proof on the subject to only as much as is necessary. Showing off a youtube video is polite, delivering a dissertation on why you feel you are right is a bit much. I know how much you want to show everyone what you are passionate about, but changing someone's opinion is like tending a garden. Seed the idea, and let the land do the growing for you. If you get a chance to speak with them again, ask them if they've checked out what you've shown then but do not implore the conversation.

Most importantly, try everything. You are still very young and getting out among others of your age or better will show you more of the world and expand on your interests. You will never know what you like until you try it, surrounded with those whom have experience in that activity (who I am sure feels about their own hobbies and interests the same as you do in yours).

One day, maybe you will find the right combination of interests to profit from them, maybe as a reviewer, or a writer on events in the field, but you will not manage this without the right attitude (or more hard work then I would wish on anyone...). Til then, enjoy your day, and think on this. [footnote]The wood that makes up you is still subtle and full, consider what kind of tool you wish to be and whittle yourself into that mold. Do you wish to be a mallet, and see every obstacle and interference as a nail to be hammered at until you break or it does?[/footnote]
 

Story

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Yes, knowledge is power but it really depends on the knowledge doesn't it? You say your 16 years of anime/manga/video games is valuable. But it is not really, because those things in general have niche audiences. I really like what Bellvedere said before; you'll gardner respect when you kindly use your knowlege to help people not critize them. No one likes to be looked down upon including you I'm sure.

Also, I wanted to stay out of your threads but I can't help it anymore. They...kinda make me chuckle...like this is some kind of parody of nerd culture. Then I realize it is not and you are completely serious, so I feel a little sad on the inside. My best advice? You should learn some humility. It will make you happier in the long run.
 

FirstNameLastName

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cathou said:
Story said:
Yes, knowledge is power but it really depends on the knowledge doesn't it? You is to say your 16 years of anime/manga/video games is valuable. But it is not really, because those things in general have niche audiences. I really like what Bellvedere said above I think you'll gardner respect when you kindly use your knowlege to help people not critize them. No one likes to be looked down upon including you I'm sure.

Also, I wanted to stay out of your threads but I can't help it anymore. They...kinda make me chuckle...like this is some kind of parody of nerd culture. Then I realize it is not and you are completely serious, so I feel a little sad on the inside. My best advice? You should learn some humility. It will make you happier in the long run.
actually, at this point, i think he's just trolling.

here's one of the thread where he want to pass himself for an "inferior"

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.868512-Suggestions-for-anime-games
Yeah, considering the fact that he began the thread by implying you would have to be either stupid or an arsehole to successfully interact with those less experienced in anime, I doubt this is a sincere attempt at gain advice. Especially since he seems to simply argue with anyone who does offer advice.

I'm guessing there must have been some international event where everyone from the western world formed a single-file line outside his house to piss in his breakfast one morning, because he doesn't seem to be able to go a single post without complaining about: people with less anime knowledge than him, America/"The west"/those damn westerners or the evil army of SJWs who are leading their crusade to take away all anime forever.

As usual, it is always good for a laugh though. It's mostly entertaining to see how others react.
 

FalloutJack

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Sung-Hwan said:
Note: Elitist not in the bad sense, but someone with much more knowledge and experience than the lost.
This is not the elitist that everybody decries, so no.
 

odolwa

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I don't mean to be rude but, who the hell ever attributed the word 'elite' to knowledge of anime? If you were working in some area of industry with high stakes decisions being made on a moment to moment basis, sure...but anime?!

I know the definition of 'elite' is broad enough to encompass a subject like this, but the average Joe and Jane on the street would probably think themselves elite compared to fans of anime. Apologies if this offends, but there's some bizarre logic at play here.