Is it time for feminists to step off our hobby?

white_wolf

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Guerilla said:
white_wolf said:
Guerilla said:
white_wolf said:
Guerilla said:
So the sexuality part is what drives the other gender away.
Yeah the sexuality can be a factor in driving women away or never picking up the game to start with there are reasons why men who date/married to female console gamers who play Witcher can't get them to try it because those women see them playing it and go its a porn simulator.

I also found a man commenting in a thread once stated he worked for a marketing firm that aided video games makers appeal he stated a case he undertook of a developer who made an RPG and wanted to boarden their market even more prior to this for 5 years the game was holding steady with its players and at a split of 40%F and 50%M players this man told this developer decloth your female avatars and npcs and while your at it sex them up inflate their breast, the dev did as instructed and the numbers switched 20%F to 70%M that game dev sacrificed its fem base for more men and cash. Not to mention all the women (and some men) on here can tell you about the games they haven't picked up do to the way the women in any game are treated and look ( like to scantily dressed for their role or weather compared to the men of the same) in game or portrayed in advertising that turns them off.
A lot of anecdotal evidence and unsourced material. In my experience women aren't that prude and many of them have no problem with porn. Then again I'm not an American so maybe that's the problem since there's a difference culture about sex there.

Also, did you consider that maybe it wasn't women that left at all but men that came that caused the percentages to change?
Yes there are differences for different cultures and then we have individual tastes so basically no one can be just written off as prude = doesn't play games. Also why would a male player increase cause women to flee when they were just fine playing the game with the 50%? Considering the change in appearance not gameplay was made there is no reason to say because more men joined up the original base fled.
They just assume that women fled because of cleavage. Personally, I've never met women so uptight that behave like that in my life . In fact most women I know don't give a crap about shit like this and the only people I've met who do care are internet warriors who are eager to protect women from these "threats".
Women not prefering to stare at women who are presented like Ivy are not uptight its like would you and your male circle like to see men dressed as chip N dale's in 80% of the games out there regardless of what the character is undertaking and regardless of weather he is even the hero or npc? Weather its due to girls don't like or girls don't want to play their (previously fit for battle) avatar as bondage, bikini babe or they're sick of the design ingeneral isn't a prude thing its a preference thing you not knowing any women who are outwardly claiming to love seeing their avatar forced to run around under protected just to flash skin for the sake of skin when previously this was not the case doesn't mean no one exists obviously people do, this 20% divide is one group showing that 20% didn't care yet 20% did and left. Now sure we could always say because more men joined women left but then why did more men joining cause them to leave? These men signed up to play only after the sexy changes so did they bring vitriol along for the ride? The only way that holds up is if this midievil RPG had chat and allowed players to interact unfortunately the marketing dev didn't say that but the fact 20% dropped right after sexy came on board its more likly the increased cup size and removal of clothing to scantly clad levels effecting their own personal avatars was a factor more so then the extra men.

Your saying women can't get along with more men but they were just fine 5 years on and only left after this change so it doesn't hold up that you think more men = women run off instead of unnecessarily changing their (the women's characters) characters to pander to men because sexing the women only instead of both avatars wasn't done to bring in more women, improve the characters fighting abilities, or improve the game controls. What the devs did when they changed the women to sexy avatars was convey a message to the female gamers this game is no longer for you, you can play if you want but really you aren't our concern its one alot of games do in advertising or in game content (most devs do this unconsciously) it doesn't stop women from playing them especially if they can find other parts of the game to like but it is acting as a deterrent to other women who aren't going to pick it up and give it a try because of the women being cliched.

A simple solution would be to have both male and female characters have a sexy set of clothing and a non sexy set of clothing that is cool looking so players can pick, the RPG the marketer told to change up might've been able to keep their 20% fem players if they were allowed to revert the costumes to their original state. The other solution would be don't advertise the game on female sex sells instead advertise it on the story sells.
 

Guerilla

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Lifeonerth said:
Wow, reading all these posts is giving me a headache, so I will just respond to the original post in general. People take themselves way too seriously and get offended just for the sake of being offended sometimes.

I am a disabled woman and I am a die-hard gamer. I think of myself as a 'feminist', but not in the way the term is currently being used. In bending over backwards in the name of 'political correctness', we have lost our balance and lost the whole point. Straight white men are not evil, and they have just as many rights as the rest of us. In my opinion, 'feminism' and the like have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. We have freedoms in this country that much of the world can only dream of and we take so much for granted.

Sure, I would like to see more games that offer the option to play as a female protagonist, but I think that the market is starting to see that there is demand for such products and is slowly responding. It takes LOTS of time and money to make a game, so it will take time for the market to adjust, get feedback on its efforts, and adjust again. If there is enough market demand (and by this I mean in terms of actual money being spent, NOT ranting or complaining), then the games being offered will reflect this. We vote with our dollars, not our words.

I still buy and play games featuring straight, white male protagonists and I enjoy them just fine, particularly if the protagonist is hot. The Witcher features some of the most blatant womanizing I have seen in a game, and I LOVE it. It is one of my all-time favorite franchises, for many reasons. Hey, ladies can enjoy their eye-candy too. And about the 'sexualized' women- go for it, guys. Sexy women are hot.

Would I want to play a game that focuses heavily on gay or trans culture? I don't know. I would keep an open mind, but it would not be the first thing I reached for on the metaphorical shelf. People like to play protagonists they can identify with in some way. There is nothing wrong with this; it is natural. Men are not more valuable than women, but nor are they less so. 'Diversity' for its own sake is not a constructive use of our time and energy, not for anyone involved. One cannot claim to respect different cultures and simultaneously seek to enforce upon the world an arbitrary homogenization. Two wrongs do not make a right.

As a developer who has to invest millions of dollars into a hypothetical game that may or may not sell, there is a lot of risk involved. People's livelihoods are at stake. Some of them have dependents, families, children to support. If they make a decision that is not profitable, many people may lose their jobs. In a world of Kickstarter and with the rising populatiry of 'indie' games, there is more opportunity to test the waters for different ideas. If you are not satisfied with the games that are being offered, go out and make one. You never know, it may be a hit.

Let's have some fun and play some games. Life is far too short and precious to spend it griping.
You know, if more feminists were like you feminism wouldn't have the awful reputation it currently holds throughout the internet. I sometimes feel guilty talking about feminists in general because there is minority like you I rarely meet on the internet that don't enjoy playing the morally superior victims. Your sex-positive attitude is also something I've really missed from feminism the last few years.
 

acosn

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DeathQuaker said:
I am a feminist (I firmly believe women are people) and I am a gamer (I play lots of video games--mainly RPGs, action, and strategy--and tabletop RPGs and board games). Gaming is "my" hobby, as much as it is yours. "You," whoever you think, "you" are, don't own the hobby. The "invasion" as I guess, unfortunately, some folks see it, has already happened. Women, men, intersex and genderqueer persons, white people, persons of color, LGBTQS persons -- people of all these demographics play gamers. We are all gamers. I am what a gamer looks like. "You" may be too. So may anyone else.

But I'm not going to "step off" OUR (yours and mine) hobby because it is in fact my hobby. And I will let developers, politely and civilly, what I am looking for in a game.

I will defend people's rights to express what they want to see in a game, whether I personally agree with their desires or not, as long as folks express their desires civilly, without hateful speech toward other human beings. I will defend anyone's right to do so safely without threat of bullying or harrassment. There are people being frightened out of their hopes for fear of their family's safety right now, and that's terrible -- that's not what discussions of video games should result in, and that means everyone truly pushing for good treatment of other people, whoever they are, need to stick around and speak up. The only people I want to step off of MY hobby are the people who cannot discuss said hobby without resorting to threats, bullying, namecalling, and verbal assault, whether they label themselves "feminist" or "MRA" or "George" or what-have-you. I'll add that as a feminist, I am very distressed when other self-labeled feminists say hateful or hurtful things as much as when it comes from anyone else. Feminists like any other group aren't some big scary hivemind all with the same ideas--we all are individuals who take different approaches to things, some perhaps more effective or agreeable than others. In the end, I personally believe all people should just treat each other decently. If someone is incapable of that regardless of what "side" they're on, then they're out.

And I do not see constructive, civil, criticism of gaming as the same thing as hating gaming or gamers. And even if I criticize a game or an aspect of a game industry, that does NOT mean I think that game in its entirety is bad, the industry in its entirety is bad, or that people who plays games are bad people. I do not, for example, think that just because some poorly characterized females exist in games (and they do) that all gamers hate women or are trying to hurt them. And I think few people from my point of view (female, feminist) believe that. Pointing out where I think there is poor characterization or what have you (whether about women or not) isn't about me saying GAMERS BAD. Not at all (especially because I'd be condemning myself). It's just about what I think about that one aspect, to take home about what I might seek out in a game in the future. Same goes for anyone else.

We often critique, both positively and negatively, the people and things that we love. For example, when I was a child, my parents have sometimes criticized or tried to correct some poor behavior they thought I had; sometimes they were ham-handed about it and sometimes they did it effectively; sometimes what they wanted to see me change was a good thing for me to change (I needed to speak with better manners), and other times it was irrelevant (they hated that I wore torn jeans for awhile), but all of that criticism was out of love and wanting me to do better, and I acknowledge that. A true friend or family member will tell you when you're wrong. I will be a true friend to the hobby I love and let the industry know when I think they've got it wrong. They will or won't listen to me, and that's alright whatever they do--they have to figure out what feedback's important and what's irrelevant. But if I offer any criticism, it's out of the fact that I enjoy the hobby and only want to see it get better. It doesn't mean that I want games to change tremendously or for everyone to feel welcome. And if you disagree with what I want to see changed -- that's alright, as long as you're polite and civil in your disagreement. That can only spawn good and helpful discussions.

And if someone tries to scare me away from my hobby that I love because for some reason they decide I don't belong here? That's only going to strengthen my resolve to stick around.

As it is, I won't "step off." I will continue to stand beside you as a fellow gamer, and be proud of who I am and of OUR hobby that you and I and all people here share together (warts and all). So I hope you get used to me and other feminist gamers being here, because we are not going anywhere. Now let's go have some fun and play games. :)

On paper most people don't even have a problem with feminists, but then you get such wonderful credits to the movement and humanity in general as "Big Red" Chanty Binx (For reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb8vVYu0HE8) and other shrill individuals who want to tell you that urinals are patriarchy, infidelity is rape, and that any act of penetrative sex is rape because it reinforces the woman's position as slave to men. These people have basically poisoned the well.


Thanks to the shrill blunderbussed nature of internet communications where everyone talks (yells) past one another, when someone says, "feminism" they think of Chanty. Or Andrea Dworkin. For better or worse, much like any other social movement you got your loony bin you have to deal with. Honestly I'd abandon the feminism title because it doesn't adequately address what you're about anymore and from a purely PR standpoint alienates many. For better or worse when feminism failed to adopt a bar for entry or a centralized figurehead it basically let anyone be a feminist, which effectively diluted the message.


No thinking person is against equal protection. We all instinctively want to share what we love. This isn't about feminism. This isn't about sex, or gender. It isn't about politics. It isn't about Quinn. #GamerGate has for most people been about transparency, and a wider call for higher standards in gaming journalism. At some level we're fundamentally never going to get away from yellow journalism. There is always someone who's going to try and sell us on their brand of original sin. They're going to want to tell us about how we're a bunch of misogynist apes for liking a completely benign game. Anything that occupies a popular space in mainstream culture is going to bent and used for one's own agenda.


These con men and women are as old as humanity. People who want to shoehorn their message into their hobby- or one they legitimately don't even like as you see with folks like Anita Sarkesian- are nothing new and more often than not obstruct progress rather than making a real change.


9/10ths of the bile you seen thrown around the internet really does just come back to that, particularly in the video game culture. Gamers are tired of being labeled as misogynists, bigots and generally just the lowest scum of the earth by people who claim to represent bullied, oppressed communities. And then they threaten to kill a 10 year old because he refused to back off on a statement that comedians are supposed to find the line on social norms and then cross it. Or they harass an image board devoted to the lifestyle of adult male virgins with no self esteem because an obscure indie developer offered up two screen caps asking what she knew about depression as evidence of harassment and raiding.


The only real conversation to be had on diversity on gaming culture has more to do with the idea that gamers in general want you to discard your identity when you pick up the controller. No one wants to know you're gay, straight, trans, white, black, male, female, whatever. They really do just want everyone to shut up and play. Unfortunately it would appear as though no one wants to discuss this without making it about bigotry, which isn't really what it is about.
 

tyriless

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carnex said:
tyriless said:
Art is to be criticized. Also, art is to contain anything artist wants to put in it. Homophobia? Check! Rape? Yep! Mass Extintions? You bet! Torture? But of course! Should we love it? Hell no, it's there most probable to cause us discomfort in the first place. Should you lie down and accept it? Well, this is where two schools we see on this forum get on their separate ways.

Both subscribe that you are n your right to point out that you are against those things in your medium, that they cause you discomfort etc.

But one stops at that while other goes further, into shaming, namecalling etc. Obviously I subscribe to more tolerant school of thought.

Other than that, vast majority of gamers would love to see more things, more diversity, innovations, new ideas, new angles etc.

Lets not create our own "Hay's code". Is that so bad to ask?
I'm not a fan of name calling, I can agree with you there. It's not productive to call someone a name. However, I take issue when I'm told I can't call something with homophobia, rape, and racism, utter crap when it's clearly written without regards of me as the audience or those I care about. Of course, there are exceptions to almost every single trigger I just mentioned, and thus this spooky "Hay's Code" you're afraid of happening, won't and shouldn't occur.For example, Uncle Ruckus from the Boondocks, had said some terrible, terrible things. However, he is clearly shown to be sick man, and his evil is both sad and petty, so the humor in his ugliness is pretty damn funny.

I am not asking for Hay's code for gaming. I am just going to speak up when I see something I dislike in my entertainment and tell the developer and fellow gamers, that I want something better next time.
 

carnex

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tyriless said:
carnex said:
tyriless said:
Art is to be criticized. Also, art is to contain anything artist wants to put in it. Homophobia? Check! Rape? Yep! Mass Extintions? You bet! Torture? But of course! Should we love it? Hell no, it's there most probable to cause us discomfort in the first place. Should you lie down and accept it? Well, this is where two schools we see on this forum get on their separate ways.

Both subscribe that you are n your right to point out that you are against those things in your medium, that they cause you discomfort etc.

But one stops at that while other goes further, into shaming, namecalling etc. Obviously I subscribe to more tolerant school of thought.

Other than that, vast majority of gamers would love to see more things, more diversity, innovations, new ideas, new angles etc.

Lets not create our own "Hay's code". Is that so bad to ask?
I'm not a fan of name calling, I can agree with you there. It's not productive to call someone a name. However, I take issue when I'm told I can't call something with homophobia, rape, and racism, utter crap when it's clearly written without regards of me as the audience or those I care about. Of course, there are exceptions to almost every single trigger I just mentioned, and thus this spooky "Hay's Code" you're afraid of happening, won't and shouldn't occur.For example, Uncle Ruckus from the Boondocks, had said some terrible, terrible things. However, he is clearly shown to be sick man, and his evil is both sad and petty, so the humor in his ugliness is pretty damn funny.

I am not asking for Hay's code for gaming. I am just going to speak up when I see something I dislike in my entertainment and tell the developer and fellow gamers, that I want something better next time.
Now that you mentioned triggers, let me ask you something. How many people out there were shot at one time or another? How many people were beaten up? How many people have traumatic experiences connected to various seemingly inconspicuous things like places, machines, animals? Where do you draw the line?
 

snowfi6916

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seaweed said:
Feminists can stay. Misandrists can get out.
This so much.

What's the matter gamers? You're afraid that you might have to allow women into your super secret club? And actually see them as equals? And actually *GASP* maybe play a few more games that have really good female protagonists?

The fucking horror. You're right. They totally deserve the rape and death threats. /sarcasm
 

Proto Taco

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Mandalore_15 said:
And while we might disagree with some creative decisions, ultimately it's the creator's work to do with what he will. Whether that work lives or dies in the court of public opinion is up to us. We can criticise it on its merits, but extrapolating that to making broad statements about the developer's worldview is totally speculative and ultimately fruitless, particularly when they give us more inclusive games and receive just as much, if not more scrutiny.
That right there is both misspelled, and solves your own argument for you. If the significant public opinion were that the representation of women in games is fine, you wouldn't have made this post, because it wouldn't be an issue. It's an issue because a LARGE number of people are finally starting to stand up to passive old guard misogyny and push for actual female equality, not the game industry's, "your pipes are leaking so here's a stopper for your bathtub," mentality. Putting passively heroic women/girls in games as supporting characters does not mean the game has, 'a strong female character.' Especially when you consider the ratio of 'games where women are treated like crap' to the ratio of 'games where women are awesome', the math is simply no where near balanced, even if you narrow your test pool to games in the past 2-3 years.

Additionally, it's the freaking game industry. They make pixel fantasies for a living. Their heroes could be freaking sentient shoe laces trying to make it in a world ruled by despotic candy corn, but instead they choose (the fact of choice is important here), they CHOOSE to make games about grizzled, bearded men, usually white, manipulating, mutilating, beating, raping and killing basically anyone who isn't just like them, and even a few who are, including women. Then they shove it in our face and tell us how awesome it is through every media outlet known to humanity.

In short, the reason you're seeing games lambasted so thoroughly is because they ARE dying in the court of public opinion, BECAUSE they don't portray women in equal light.
 

Guerilla

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carnex said:
Now that you mentioned triggers, let me ask you something. How many people out there were shot at one time or another? How many people were beaten up? How many people have traumatic experiences connected to various seemingly inconspicuous things like places, machines, animals? Where do you draw the line?
You draw the line where feminists tell you to draw the line because they're the moral authority and representatives of the oppressed. Or at least they think they are.

And the line as per usual is only focused on women and doesn't give a shit about men. Remember the Tomb Raider controversy about the "excessive" violent deaths of Laura Croft in a game was should have appeased feminists since it has a strong female character? That was apparently because society has "normalized" violence against women. Yes, that's it, let's ignore the hundreds of other games where men are slaughtered, maimed and tortured it's all about the woman. It's more proof that most feminists do not care about equality and will never stop no matter how much things change, they care about manufactured controversy that gives them either attention or clicks. Feminism has become the most self-serving movement I've had the displeasure of running across.
 

Mandalore_15

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Proto Taco said:
Mandalore_15 said:
And while we might disagree with some creative decisions, ultimately it's the creator's work to do with what he will. Whether that work lives or dies in the court of public opinion is up to us. We can criticise it on its merits, but extrapolating that to making broad statements about the developer's worldview is totally speculative and ultimately fruitless, particularly when they give us more inclusive games and receive just as much, if not more scrutiny.
That right there is both misspelled, and solves your own argument for you. If the significant public opinion were that the representation of women in games is fine, you wouldn't have made this post, because it wouldn't be an issue. It's an issue because a LARGE number of people are finally starting to stand up to passive old guard misogyny and push for actual female equality, not the game industry's, "your pipes are leaking so here's a stopper for your bathtub," mentality. Putting passively heroic women/girls in games as supporting characters does not mean the game has, 'a strong female character.' Especially when you consider the ratio of 'games where women are treated like crap' to the ratio of 'games where women are awesome', the math is simply no where near balanced, even if you narrow your test pool to games in the past 2-3 years.

Additionally, it's the freaking game industry. They make pixel fantasies for a living. Their heroes could be freaking sentient shoe laces trying to make it in a world ruled by despotic candy corn, but instead they choose (the fact of choice is important here), they CHOOSE to make games about grizzled, bearded men, usually white, manipulating, mutilating, beating, raping and killing basically anyone who isn't just like them, and even a few who are, including women. Then they shove it in our face and tell us how awesome it is through every media outlet known to humanity.

In short, the reason you're seeing games lambasted so thoroughly is because they ARE dying in the court of public opinion, BECAUSE they don't portray women in equal light.
If they are dying in the court of public opinion I'm really not sure how, as games sales have never been higher. Triple A's being the market that most of these complaints are leveled at haven't ceded any market share, so I honestly don't see it.

So you say that games having women in as supporting characters does not mean having a "strong female character"... does that mean that in your opinion a female character can only be "strong" if she's the central/player character? What about games like Half-Life 2 where Gordon Freeman is a floating orb with zero personality - basically a conduit for the player to enter the world - and Alex, arguably a supporting character, is one of the best-loved characters in PC gaming? Does the fact that you don't play her invalidate her?

To me this just sounds like trying to justify a position by any means necessary. There are many well loved supporting characters, in many ways loved more than the central ones, whether it be Clank, Daxter, Elizabeth, Ellie, Cortana, Cole Train... If they are all "passively heroic" to you then I think you have a bit of a black and white view of storytelling.

Also, on a pedantic note, could you point out what exactly I misspelled?
 

Mandalore_15

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Fenrox Jackson said:
You realize you agree with me at the end. Parallel structure is your friend.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I disagreed with the majority of points you put out there. If you want to point out flaws in my argument please do it and don't just post a short "you lose" statement (or risk mod wrath).
 

DM Gray

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AkaDad said:
When you make a claim that misandry is "rampant", you're implying that it's all over the place and not just a few nutters. Where is all this misandry of which you speak?
You are seriously going yo deny misandry?
WHen the loudest voices with the most support are people *constantly* demonising men while saying "not all men" (which became a hashtag to mock complaints about the misandric rhetoric)

Misandry doesn't even register on spellcheck.
Why? Because of feminist trolling.
"misandry don't real"
Take a look at feminist merch and you will see VERY little about empowering women or equality, and a lot of "ironic misandry"
"ironic misandry" that is indistinguishable from the *constant* abuse levelled at men in general.
Even in THIS FUCKING STORY: gamergate, the hashtag is being attacked for being invented by some white dudes on 4chan. Not only is that a stupid conspiracy theory FAR more outlandish than anything they chide gamergate for, but it reveals a level of sexism and racism that would be ASTONISHING if it were not targeted at white men.
#notyourshield shows JUST how little regard "straight white cisgendered men" have in the communities you seem to think are a minority, but have been EXTREMELY dominant over the last weeks.
AN accusation of being a white man is being used to silence people.
That is all the proof of misandry amongst your peers you need.
Gender should not fucking matter, but it does to YOUR "SIDE"

At least be bloody honest about this stuff.
Good feminists exist, you are not them.
"feminism" has done nothing but divide communities and condescend/disparage anyone that even QUESTIONS them. Good feminists are starting to get fed up of this, but people like you just want to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's just a minority of nobodies, instead of the people that have editorial authority that are now claiming to be oppressed because their readers don't agree with their bias. Suddenly they're interested in criticism and debate, after suppressing anybody that doesn't agree with them for YEARS (just TRY and find a criticism of Sarkeesian's work in the mainstream. Even of gaming media. It doesn't exist, despite many FEMINISTS not agreeing with her)

So fed up of this denial.
 

Ten Foot Bunny

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DM Gray said:
Misandry doesn't even register on spellcheck.
Why? Because of feminist trolling.
It's in Microsoft Office spellcheck. But I DO notice it's not in Chrome.

Sounds more like a Google/Microsoft turf war than some vast feminist conspiracy. Next, Microsoft will drop support for the word "Aardvark." Mark my words.
 

AkaDad

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I asked you to back up your claims of rampant misandry and instead you rant and call me a bad feminist.

I think we're done here.

Edit: That was for DM Gray.
 

Guerilla

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Fenrox Jackson said:
Mandalore_15 said:
Fenrox Jackson said:
You realize you agree with me at the end. Parallel structure is your friend.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I disagreed with the majority of points you put out there. If you want to point out flaws in my argument please do it and don't just post a short "you lose" statement (or risk mod wrath).
I hear ya, the mods on this site are terrible. Allowing for horrible threads against women, gays, disabled people as long as it's masked and civil. You can't say Tr*** but you can say that gays can be cured and that women are equal. Hopefully a change out of the attention being brought to all this will be actual moderation of topics.
Are you just mocking Mandalore now or something? Nothing makes sense about your last two posts.
 

Guerilla

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Fenrox Jackson said:
Guerilla said:
Fenrox Jackson said:
Mandalore_15 said:
Fenrox Jackson said:
You realize you agree with me at the end. Parallel structure is your friend.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I disagreed with the majority of points you put out there. If you want to point out flaws in my argument please do it and don't just post a short "you lose" statement (or risk mod wrath).
I hear ya, the mods on this site are terrible. Allowing for horrible threads against women, gays, disabled people as long as it's masked and civil. You can't say Tr*** but you can say that gays can be cured and that women are equal. Hopefully a change out of the attention being brought to all this will be actual moderation of topics.
Are you just mocking Mandalore now or something? Nothing makes sense about your last two posts.
It's ok, don't feel bad. I don't know who or what a Mandalore is. Civility is a state within and outside, having a civil discussion about euthanizing the disabled is not a civil discussion, a civil discussion would omit that conversation and find it a home in a more prudent location. That was a forum post on the escapist. Yet you can't say tr***.
First of all, who made you the authority on what civil discussion is? This is how extreme censorship begins, in some forums they ban people who argue with feminists because just disagreeing with them is supposedly misogynistic. Stop backseat moderating and try to argue rationally with people instead of trying to shut them up.

And what's this tr*** word? I don't even know about which word you're talking about.
 

DM Gray

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AkaDad said:
I asked you to back up your claims of rampant misandry and instead you rant and call me a bad feminist.

I think we're done here.

Edit: That was for DM Gray.
I provided yo with a great deal of context and said your willful ignorance makes you a bad feminist.
It does.
Just wait a year or two, and you'll have magically evolved; it's coming and you'll pretend to have been totally cool with it all along.

Ten Foot Bunny said:
Sounds more like a Google/Microsoft turf war than some vast feminist conspiracy.
Where did I say conspiracy. I said troll.
A lot of feminists around in the world, and they tend to delight in mocking the concept of misandry, even if they aren't actually bigots themselves.
"ironic misandry" has become VERY mainstream.
You think spellcheck software creators are going to have a turf war over providing the correct spelling for a single word?

That is FAR more crazy that suggesting a lone feminist though it would be funny.
(and feminists do engage in this kinda thing: wiki gets edited for political reasons all the time, and there are few political lobbies as active as feminism, sometimes for good, sometimes for ill)


Every single criticism of gamers and gamergate I see here is a MASSIVE strawman about misogynerds not wanting girls in their club house.
It *might* be funny, if it weren't from people pretending to be seriously fighting against sexism.
By being really fucking sexist themselves.