Is killing an alternate self murder or suicide?

[DarklordKyo]

A thought recently popped up in my head. Say you ran into an evil, alternate universe version of yourself (or, if you already identify as evil, eviler). Let's say you kill that alternate version of yourself. If you killed that alternate version of yourself, is it murder?, or is it technically suicide?

 

[Queen Michael]

So just to be clear--are we assuming that this is one of those trousers-of-time things where we started out the same person but the I'm the Queen Michael who chose goodness and he's the one who chose evil at some point in our life? Like a Sliding Doors kind of thing?

 

[DarklordKyo]

So just to be clear--are we assuming that this is one of those trousers-of-time things where we started out the same person but the I'm the Queen Michael who chose goodness and he's the one who chose evil at some point in our life? Like a Sliding Doors kind of thing?

More or less, generally a you Vs. Nega-you kinda deal.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Killing another person, so murder.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Killing another person, so murder.

What he/ she typed. Since the OP mention the "evil" you, that is pretty much a different person to you despite looking the same as you.

 

[Baffle]

I'd claim self-defense because my hands are deadly weapons. When there's a knife in them.

 

[Tautology]

Quite possibly neither.

Killing someone is not necessarily murder. Murder is a human killing another human without a legally justifiable reason. It's a question of whether or not the kill was lawful. I'll assume that for this hypothetical my killing of Evil Tautology occurs where a human government has legal jurisdiction.

It can't be suicide; the killing of oneself. No matter how like me this person is they are still not me. I am myself and no one else can truly be me. Unless killing him causes me to die as well, then it's suicide.

We should not forget that Evil Tautology is also evil and thus has no qualms about killing me himself. If we were to meet, he would likely attack me unprovoked. My retaliation and subsequent killing of him would be ruled justifiable homicide or manslaughter. Neither is murder. It's called self defense.

The universe the event occurs in may also factor into my defense. The universe my evil double hails from is itself defined as being evil, I doubt they would have a legal concept of murder. Hell, they might view my actions as being lawful by their standards. If it happens in my own universe, I could probably argue that because he was from an evil universe his intentions here were malicious and I killed him in order to protect everyone else. This would be a justifiable homicide.

If I took him to another universe and killed him there, depending on their laws, it could be murder. Unless there's a Multiverse Legal Code binding all universes. At that point I'm inside Jet Li's The One, it's definitely murder, and I'm being pursued by Coptology!

 

[Thaluikhain]

We should not forget that Evil Tautology is also evil and thus has no qualms about killing me himself.

Er...that doesn't follow. What if Evil You just votes for the Evil Party and gives money to the Church of Evil but doesn't commit evil directly?

Now, in some circumstances, that still could be argued self defence, only that's a long and angry argument on R&P.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Killing past you is suicide. Because you will cease to exist.

Killing alternate you is murder.Because you should still exist.Unless alternate you somehow had sex with your mom and gave birth to you.

 

[madwarper]

Murder is a human killing another human without a legally justifiable reason. It's a question of whether or not the kill was lawful.

This. This, right here.
I don't understand why people automatically conflate murder with killing. Or, unarmed with harmless.

But, yeah. Assuming the alternate version is "evil", then depending on the situation, it could easily be justified as self defense.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Murder is a human killing another human without a legally justifiable reason. It's a question of whether or not the kill was lawful.

This. This, right here.
I don't understand why people automatically conflate murder with killing. Or, unarmed with harmless.

But, yeah. Assuming the alternate version is "evil", then depending on the situation, it could easily be justified as self defense.

True, though the OP seems like it's an unprovoked attack on your part. Might be reading that wrong, though.

 

[FalloutJack]

Murder and assisting a suicide. You killed someone. That person was you. You killed yourself, but you're also not dead.

 

[Pseudonym]

You clearly aren't a numerically identical person, so murder.

Murder is a human killing another human without a legally justifiable reason. It's a question of whether or not the kill was lawful.

I don't really think it matters. We can assume for the sake of argument that the killing was unlawful and/or immoral. Or we can disregard the law and just get to the point that is relevant to the thought experiment.

 

[09philj]

It's not you, so murder. So is killing yourself in the past or future. Only you in the moment are you.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Technically, it's not "YOU" you piloting that body, so...I'd go with Murder as the charge. Suicide is when you kill the consciousness currently housed in that fleshsack we all call our body.

Similarly, screwing an alternative universe you is basically incest.

It's really really weird and metaphysical, but this makes the most sense.

 

[Tautology]

We should not forget that Evil Tautology is also evil and thus has no qualms about killing me himself.

Er...that doesn't follow. What if Evil You just votes for the Evil Party and gives money to the Church of Evil but doesn't commit evil directly?

Now, in some circumstances, that still could be argued self defence, only that's a long and angry argument on R&P.

An alternate version of me that votes, gives money to a church, and would try to kill me through indirect and manipulative means? He's more evil than I thought possible!

Evil is a bit of a relative concept. If I were willing to kill an evil version of myself, an evil version of me would be even more willing to kill to me. Wouldn't I be more evil otherwise?

You clearly aren't a numerically identical person, so murder.

Murder is a human killing another human without a legally justifiable reason. It's a question of whether or not the kill was lawful.

I don't really think it matters. We can assume for the sake of argument that the killing was unlawful and/or immoral. Or we can disregard the law and just get to the point that is relevant to the thought experiment.

OP was too vague so I took the legality into consideration for the sake of the argument.

If I killed an alternate version of myself somewhere that a legitimate legal authority declared such an act unlawful and I had no valid reason for doing it, I have committed murder.

Is that satisfactory?

 

[Satinavian]

I would go with "It is someone else, so maybe murder but not suicide".

But with alternative realities and copies you could have a lot of additional strange stuff going on.

: Are those alternative realities actually real ? Did you really kill a real person or only some strange projection ?

: Which meachnism is responsible for the dupicate ? Is it still intact ? Did you kill the him/her only in your universe and what happened in the other universe is the opposite thing ? Can actually one being alive and the other dead or do the laws of nature making doppelgangers require both being alive or both being dead ?

 

[Saltyk]

As others have said, killing another version of you would be murder. Not suicide or anything else. However, if this alternate version of you were trying to harm you or someone else, it would not be murder and be justified.

I can't really think of a way that killing a version of yourself would not be murder. Maybe if you mind controlled the other you to kill you, that would be suicide, but that's not really even close.

We should not forget that Evil Tautology is also evil and thus has no qualms about killing me himself.

Er...that doesn't follow. What if Evil You just votes for the Evil Party and gives money to the Church of Evil but doesn't commit evil directly?

According to some people here, that's even worse than actually committing evil. I mean people who are guilty of wrong-think should be culled, man.

 

[Recusant]

Okay, first thing's first: what, exactly, does "an alternate self" mean? A person who occupies the same position as you is not you; if your boss quits and you get his job, that doesn't make you the same person. Regardless of how many details are the same, it's not you. A clone is identical to you down to the genetic level; that doesn't mean you're the same person. They are another person, it would be murder. Well, homicide, at least. "Murder" is a legal term. Whether a killing counts as murder is going to vary wildly depending on what jurisdiction you're in. Which brings up this point:

Murder is a human killing another human without a legally justifiable reason. It's a question of whether or not the kill was lawful.

This. This, right here.
I don't understand why people automatically conflate murder with killing. Or, unarmed with harmless.

This very forum has a thread titled "Poll: Which crossover team-ups you're wants to see?". Peek in any given thread, and you'll see people using "crap" as an adjective, "invite" as a noun, and "trailer" to refer to movies and video games that haven't even been released yet. For a lot of Escapists, English is not a first language; expecting people to be familiar with legal terminology (yes, murder is an important crime, but I'm willing to bet very few language programs teach anything about it) is asking a lot. "Murder" gets the point across.