Is Nintendo Back? Company Reports Unexpected Profits

[Roxas1359]

You're right. To be fair, it's hard when you feel like your favorite thing is under attack, but yeah, you're right.

While that may be the case, you also have to remember that not everyone grew up with Nintendo, especially nowadays. Now we have lots of kids who grew up with Sony's Playstation and even Microsoft's Xbox line. Not to mention that there are people who didn't grow up with Nintendo, but SEGA instead. While it's not fun to have what you like being attacked, you have to remember that no one else likes that either.

There is also a difference between attacking and criticizing. I love Nintendo games, but I'd be ignorant if I were to ignore their bumblings they've had over these last few years not just with the Wii U launch, but the 3DS launch as well. Their marketing has been abysmal, with very few ads getting a clear message across; their game drought has been terrible, and results in launch Wii U owners getting tired of waiting (bought mine in launch year before price drop); their initial pricing of the Wii U wasn't helping them at all, although this was more of a problem with the 3DS at launch; their attitude towards Let's Plays and the internet at large gave them a very bad image of them being very out of touch (for example the EVO incident from last year). Nintendo is a great company and will be around for ages, but they still shoot themselves in the foot just as badly as Microsoft and Sony do all the time. N

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

The type of gamer who likes Bayonetta and your average Nintendo fan don't have a very big overlap.

woah woah woah, where are you getting this from?
I fall into this overlap. I know another Wii U owner, he fits into this overlap, and I've had friends who've played MK8 at my place who would fall into this overlap.

 

[MoreThanANoob]

I swear Pachter's gravestone will read "As dead as Nintendo is"

Shit. He's gonna live forever, then, isn't he?

 

[xaszatm]

I swear Pachter's gravestone will read "As dead as Nintendo is"

YOU FOOL! Now you've made him an immortal being! We shall never get rid of him!

 

[SweetJackal]

I'm not going to touch the topic of the Wii-U hardware and games sales because speculation about that is completely pointless. There will eventually be a report about the number of sales for both the console and games by title broken down into the different regions soon enough and that will give empirical evidence as to the strength of their sales and any increase in momentum.

However I find it hilarious that the idea that the profits generated by Nintendo somehow do not count or are a negative thing because of speculation that they haven't increased their sales by a significant margin when the profits themselves are a significant positive gain from the same time period last year. Reality is if they have increased their own efficiency to the point of generating a profit on the same revenue as last year then that is a massive show of strength from a business sense. To understand why I'll need to explain a few concepts about the stock market, something Pachter doesn't seem to understand himself.

The price of a stock shifts up and down from a Base Price depending on supply and demand. How this price moves and the reasons as to why is extremely complicated and convoluted as it involves performance history, current news and general feelings of investors as a group yet how you reach that Base Price is something far more simple. The Base Price is reached through an evaluation of their Assets (current revenue, banked cash, property, etc.) added to the value/price of the goods/services that they produce/provide (Alpha) and added to their ability to manage themselves in an efficient manner (Beta.)

In this explanation "Alpha" is very much influenced by the Market Index. Having a strong Alpha isn't a sign of strength in the company as it means the company is riding a high from a strong market. However, "Beta" is the ability to generate profit independent of fluctuations in the marketplace. Anyone can succeed when the market is in favor of you but it is a massive business strength to succeed when the market wanes from your perspective.

If Nintendo is posting a profit of this level without increasing their revenue by the same margins then that means that they have cut out the massive bloat from their own development cycles and are not needing to sell millions upon millions of copies for their games like EA, Square Enix and Ubisoft have claimed as a requirement for their titles just to break even. It means that they have managed themselves to reasonable expectations of the market, their product and their growth to the point that they are able to thrive on the weak market that has been afforded to them.

It means that as their own presence in the market grows and their revenue grows we will see the same levels of exponential profits that were posted in the highlights of the Wii's lifecycle. It means that Nintendo have set themselves up for success in a way that many "successful" and large AAA publishers haven't been able to do. It goes to further show that Pachter should be shutting his mouth as he doesn't understand marketplace and business basics and is unable to question or analyze data.

The Year Of Luigi Continues.

 

[Lightknight]

While the following is bleak, I don't think it means that the company is dying at all. At the very worst it would eventually just become a software company like Sega and even then I think they're fine for a shot at the next generation before that becomes a necessity. Unfortunately, their cash reserves took a massive hit when the family that started Nintendo sold their share. So I may be wrong that they've got another shot at another generation if they don't start hitting profit points more regularly, but I hope not. I hope Nintendo is immortal even if I'm tired of paying the Nintendo tax for a console if I want to play their games. Because God knows I don't actually want to buy their console for what it is.

I was unaware that they were missing. The Xbone is still selling worse than the Wii U, any chance that Microsoft will be the one everyone thinks is DOOOOOOOOMED next?

Well, Microsoft always has Windows and other divisions, so they'll be fine.

Also, there's no catchy name that you can use for saying the XBone is doomed...

...maybe "Xboned"?

Actually, nima55 was giving you misinformation. The WiiU has been out for a year more than any of the other consoles. While the XBO hasn't surpassed the WiiU yet, it is regularly outselling the WiiU and will eventually catch up and exceed sales of it.

http://www.vgchartz.com/tools/hw_date.php?reg=Global&ending=Monthly

May, July, and June of this year were the only months that the WiiU has ever outsold any of the other consoles and not by very much. Here's a summary from the link above since the PS4 and XBO were released:

2013:
November - PS4: 2.13m XBO: 1.556m WiiU: .473m
December - PS4: 2.279m XBO: 1.511m WiiU: 1.156m

2013 Total (only for the months above): PS4: 4.409 XBO: 3.067 WiiU: 1.629
(Even if you count the entire year for the WiiU, the XBO only sold 100k less over the span of 1.5 months)

2014:
January - PS4: .738m XBO: .261m WiiU: .161m
February - PS4: .983m XBO: .249m WiiU: .168m
March - PS4: .917m XBO: .431m WiiU: .184m
April - PS4: .595m XBO: .195m WiiU: .119m
May - PS4: .612m XBO: .149m WiiU: .236m (87k more than the XBO)
June - PS4: .757m XBO: .306m WiiU: .383m (77k more than the XBO)
July - PS4: .615m XBO: .222m WiiU: .245m (23k more than the XBO)
August - PS4: .581m XBO: .229m WiiU: .215m
September - PS4: 1.55m XBO: .760m WiiU: .225m (XBO sells 535k units more than the XBO in one month alone)
October (pending) - PS4: .582m XBO: .245m WiiU: .087 (Bayonetta may change this dismal look since it only came out on the 24th in the N. America and Europe. However, it's been out since september in Japan and hasn't sold more than 50k units despite Japan accounting for a quarter of WiiUs that have been sold)

2014 Total (only for the months above): PS4: 7.930m XBO: 3.047m WiiU: 2.023m

So it's incorrect to claim that the WiiU is selling better than the XBO when the WiiU sold 3.793 million in the year before the XBO and PS4 showed up. In reality, the WiiU only sold 187k units more than XBO over those three months while the XBO sold 535k more consoles above the WiiU in the month of September alone. Over this year it (the XBO) has sold 1 million more units (33% more) than the WiiU.

Then there's the PS4 that is apparently playing its own game like the Wii was last generation. It has sold more than twice both other consoles combined every month except in December when they had a terrible supply issue.

TLR = The XBO has been outselling the WiiU by 33% and the WiiU only outsold the XBO during three months by a small amount thanks to Mario Party. The only time the WiiU sales jump is around exclusive Nintendo games. The other consoles jump around exclusives and multi-platforms that the WiiU doesn't necessarily have (like Destiny).

 

[Sonicron]

Their finances are actually improving...?

Must be that WiiU I bought a few weeks back.

This. Once Nintendo actually released some damn things for the Wii U, people bought it. Case in point: This guy, and I myself got a Wii U last month.

In the mean time, how about a fucking price drop for some games? The Windwaker HD is still £40 new in the UK, so I just got the Windwaker bundle (and the Wii U pad looks beautiful with that design).

Heh, did exactly the same. By far the best value for money out of all the bundles IMO, and that gamepad really is a thing of beauty!

 

[Casual Shinji]

In the mean time, how about a fucking price drop for some games? The Windwaker HD is still £40 new in the UK, so I just got the Windwaker bundle (and the Wii U pad looks beautiful with that design).

Heh, did exactly the same. By far the best value for money out of all the bundles IMO, and that gamepad really is a thing of beauty!

Yeah, but it's a download copy only, right? Unlike the other bundles that that give you a physical disc. I was thinking of maybe getting a Wii-U not too long ago, and my ideal would've been the Wind Waker HD bundle, but then in the contents it says it only gives you the game free to download. And as long as Nintendo has that abysmal system in place that ties dowloads to your console instead of an account, I'm not touching that.

 

[LaochEire]

I think the Wii U, as a console, is pure garbage. Horrible consoles with a giant awkward gimmicky gamepad and a sterile OS with limited functionality, but its library is far superior to PS4 and Xbox One. So many great games in the Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Zombie U, Super Mario 3D, Pikmin 3 and Wind Waker HD. I've enjoyed gaming on it more than my PS4 and Xbox One.

I hate that I enjoy it so much...if that makes sense...which it doesn't...because it's an oxymoron...

 

[Sonicron]

In the mean time, how about a fucking price drop for some games? The Windwaker HD is still £40 new in the UK, so I just got the Windwaker bundle (and the Wii U pad looks beautiful with that design).

Heh, did exactly the same. By far the best value for money out of all the bundles IMO, and that gamepad really is a thing of beauty!

Yeah, but it's a download copy only, right? Unlike the other bundles that that give you a physical disc. I was thinking of maybe getting a Wii-U not too long ago, and my ideal would've been the Wind Waker HD bundle, but then in the contents it says it only gives you the game free to download. And as long as Nintendo has that abysmal system in place that ties dowloads to your console instead of an account, I'm not touching that.

Oh? I didn't know that. And here I thought I'd done my research...
Oh well, I have the thing in my house now, and I am enjoying it. But I will admit that if I'd known about the download property system I may have abstained from buying this particular bundle.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Oh? I didn't know that. And here I thought I'd done my research...
Oh well, I have the thing in my house now, and I am enjoying it. But I will admit that if I'd known about the download property system I may have abstained from buying this particular bundle.

Well, I heard Nintendo is working on an account system, or maybe it's already in place.

 

[Evonisia]

Oh? I didn't know that. And here I thought I'd done my research...
Oh well, I have the thing in my house now, and I am enjoying it. But I will admit that if I'd known about the download property system I may have abstained from buying this particular bundle.

Well, I heard Nintendo is working on an account system, or maybe it's already in place.

It demanded that I set up an account to download the thing, so I'm guessing that this has happened (or I'm missing the point).

 

[Roxas1359]

Oh? I didn't know that. And here I thought I'd done my research...
Oh well, I have the thing in my house now, and I am enjoying it. But I will admit that if I'd known about the download property system I may have abstained from buying this particular bundle.

Well, I heard Nintendo is working on an account system, or maybe it's already in place.

It demanded that I set up an account to download the thing, so I'm guessing that this has happened (or I'm missing the point).

Digital games are still tied to the physical hardware itself. Before they implanted the system, you had 2 different eShops with 2 different wallets that weren't connected. With the update, eShops' wallets are combined into one. But game wise they are still tied to the hardware, which is really dumb.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I swear Pachter's gravestone will read "As dead as Nintendo is"

YOU FOOL! Now you've made him an immortal being! We shall never get rid of him!

In all honesty the epitaph should be "I win: sincerely, Satoru Iwata." You'd think people would accept the simple truth: Nintendo is never going anywhere. They will never go out of business. They will never go 3rd party. And they will never, EVER stop making home consoles. It amazes that this has to be repeated every other week

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

"is nintendo back?"



...they were gone in the first place?

No but they were losing a shit-ton of money.

...not that I want to sound rude, but I'm not your average casual who doesn't pay attention to news, I've known financially they were drier than an old lady for a while there, and I have no love for nintendo (seriously, their hardware has been garbage for a decade now and I really dislike their games being locked down to nintendo only hardware, thank god for emulators.) but due to their die hard fanbase gobbling up nintendos first part titles, they won't be "gone" anytime soon.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

"is nintendo back?"



...they were gone in the first place?

No but they were losing a shit-ton of money.

...not that I want to sound rude, but I'm not your average casual who doesn't pay attention to news, I've known financially they were drier than an old lady for a while there, and I have no love for nintendo (seriously, their hardware has been garbage for a decade now and I really dislike their games being locked down to nintendo only hardware, thank god for emulators.) but due to their die hard fanbase gobbling up nintendos first part titles, they won't be "gone" anytime soon.

I took "Nintendo is back" as "Nintendo is back from losing money". Or not making as much as they would've liked anyway.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I took "Nintendo is back" as "Nintendo is back from losing money". Or not making as much as they would've liked anyway.

Eh all they have to do is make pokemon 12 platinum vibranium edition and possibly innovate it with a couple new sprites, maybe a new boss, and they'll be back in black in no time.


(before anyone quotes me baffled by what I just said, I KNOW they change a ton in the deeper game mechanics and metagame, but that doesn't change the fact that on the surface pokemon games change/do anything different at an absolute snails pace while gobbling up dumptrucks of money with each game.)

 

[144_v1legacy]

I took "Nintendo is back" as "Nintendo is back from losing money". Or not making as much as they would've liked anyway.

Eh all they have to do is make pokemon 12 platinum vibranium edition and possibly innovate it with a couple new sprites, maybe a new boss, and they'll be back in black in no time.


(before anyone quotes me baffled by what I just said, I KNOW they change a ton in the deeper game mechanics and metagame, but that doesn't change the fact that on the surface pokemon games change/do anything different at an absolute snails pace while gobbling up dumptrucks of money with each game.)

In spite of your disclaimer, even worse is that you use the phrase "maybe a new boss." If you don't know what you're talking about, maybe quiet observation is the place for you.

 

[JayRPG]

Just a friendly reminder that Nintendo has sold more Wii U consoles than Microsoft has sold Xbox Ones.

Hardware sales were/are slow, but they do pick up with big game launches. If ~7.3m consoles is abysmal then Microsoft must really be in trouble with only 5.5m Xbone sales.

The Wii U has more on the table in the not-too-distant future than the Xbone and PS4 do as well, It doesn't seem to be stopping the PS4 sales though (mine's been collecting dust since I finished infamous second son :/).

The Xbox One is likely sold at a loss, the PS4 sells for a small profit, and as is traditional Nintendo style, the Wii U sells for a profit. I never had any doubts Nintendo would "turn it around", not that I thought operating at a loss for such a short time was a bad thing anyway.

Nintendo's first ever operating loss was in 2012, their second ever in 2013.

Microsoft's gaming division operated at huge losses for 8 straight years from the year 2000; and Sony operated at losses ranging from half a billion to more than 1 billion for 4 years from 2006.

Nintendo's losses have been minuscule in comparison to others in the industry, $220 million in 2012, which is the lowest ever reported loss from any of the 3 big companies apart from Sony in 1995 who lost $93 million, and then under $500 million for 2013. These were far from worrying figures for an $18.4 billion dollar company (Sony is only worth $17.7 billion).

All the ludicrous Nintendo is doomed talk over the last few years has really been blown out of proportion... even if things continued on that 2 year "trend" (which obviously hasn't happened), we would be at least 10 years off seeing Nintendo die/turn into Sega.

TL;DR Companies are allowed to report losses, it happens, it happens all the time. Reporting losses for 2 years isn't the end of the world. If Nintendo's Wii U sales are "abysmal" then the Xbox One's sales must be truly in the shit. Nintendo has more big releases in the holiday period and early 2015 than either the PS4/X1 to help boost sales, and above all else, the 3DS is still the best selling console (not just out of handhelds).

Ok, but that's not good either. If you're a Nintendo fan, be happy when Nintendo does well. But don't be happy when Microsoft doesn't - we want "gaming" to be healthy. It's just as obnoxious to be spouting gloom now for MS as it was when people were doing it for Nintendo.

Where was I spouting doom for MS?

I said that MS operated at huge losses for 8 years in a row and they are still around, I was using at the prime example for the reason Nintendo wasn't in any real trouble.

I also said that Nintendo has sold more Wii U consoles than MS had sold Xbox One consoles, but that was just simply fact, and I use that statement to reiterate that the Wii U sales are not that bad, and if they are considered abysmal, then why is the X1 considered a success (at this point in time)?

I never once said MS were headed for doom, or that they were in trouble, and I certainly didn't mean for my post to be portrayed that way.

P.S I'm not an anyone fan, I have a PS3, PS4, PS Vita, Xbox 360, Gamecube, Wii U, 3DS XL, and a gaming PC. I don't discriminate, there should be an Xbox One added to the collection at some point before christmas.

 

[FEichinger]

When Nintendo consoles get fucked over by AAA publishers all the time, you can't really blame Nintendo for keeping their games exclusive. If these publishers were putting some more effort into the Wii U, the Wii U would offer a large market share, and might even have yet more sales. But I guess it's easier to just claim "the hardware is shit, and our low-quality stuff doesn't sell on the Wii U, so we'll quit."

That said, Nintendo was never doomed. Exclusives work (and, for that matter, have been a deciding factor in the early stages of a console generation all the time), and they can always fall back on the Wii's target demographic. The Wii U had a rough start because nobody wanted to develop decent games for it, so first-party exclusives it is.