Is piracy bad when you don't have a choice ?

Katana314

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Akai Shizuku said:
Because I like games but don't have any money. The rich have enough restricted to their socioeconomic class as it is. Fuck the corporations. They're not making as much money as they would have without piracy but piracy will never drive them out of business.
I'm pretty sure this has been covered. You've got this pie-in-the-sky belief that gaming is a "right", and that no one can "take that right away". No, it's a privilege. A privilege granted by paying for the games. I like eating hamburgers. If I show up at a fast food place without a dollar to pay for one, that's just me being dumb.

To everyone saying that they're sure the developers would just want you playing: Don't pull this sort of thing out of your ass. I'm working to become a developer myself and I know I'd want my players to be rightful purchasers. I realize people like the South Park developers have a different mindset, but that's partially because they're already successful, and partially because they're different.

There are enough free PC games in existence that I see little to no reason for anyone to pick piracy just because they want to play the games everyone else is playing.

xemnahort: I think in general people have found video games to HURT their life issues more than help. Video games can be a great stress relief, but more often they turn out to be a distraction from far more important issues. How often do your clanmates post on your forum saying "Hey guys, I need to stop playing for a while to deal with some life stuff."
 

krazymouse

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SyphonX said:
Yes, in "theory", piracy will hurt the economic model of an industry, games included. However, there is no proof to back this up, at this current time, in the real world. On paper, in the "morally sound, justified world", it adds up, but in the current real-time market, there is no proof whatsoever that the industry is being hurt.
I'm sorry to say this but do you understand what you just said? You do not think that, piracy is hurting the Video Game Industry? Of course there are going to be those people who can not afford those video games, who just pirate them, but what about penny pinching people who actually have money? I know people who just simply pirate because they don't want to use their own money.

Of course Piracy is hurting the industry. The proof is that, anyone who is trying to save a little money by pirating is technically hurting the video game industry. And trust me, there are LOTS of those types of people. Explain why there are Video Games on Torrent sites? And explain why they have 80 people seeding them? And thats just for one game. Imagine how many people are just downloading them at will.


SyphonX said:
Is the industry being hurt morally? Are the corporations being scorned, and subsequently, their feelings being hurt? Sad face.

These people CANNOT buy these games because in most cases, it is the equivalent of you having to pay retail on a new TV, for the price of a single game, in relevance to the level of their country's inflation/economy. It just can't happen. This isn't - "Oh, I'm short on cash this month, I have to go without for now." - it is - "Wow, that game costs as much as my mortgage payment, guess I have to go without forever." There is no "saving up", or counting pennies, it just never will be.
Yes, there are those people who live in this type of situation, but thats why charities exist, so that you might even be able to play games. (Notably, Child's Play) And trust me, if you can afford the internet to pirate, you probably have a high enough income to save even a little. If you can afford the internet, you probably could at the very least, save 10 cents a day. Either that, or you have your priorities messed up.

SyphonX said:
My whole point is, if these companies are going to piss and moan all day long, 365 days a week, and spend millions on DRM saying that pirates are to blame for some unfounded "hurt to the industry", then they deserve every loss they get, From That. Their losses are from their paranoia, not mine, or anyone else's. Until they can provide quantifiable proof that the majority of "pirates", leeching and seeding every single day, are all a lost sale, each and every one of them, then there never will be any justification for the action they take against their paying customers, or the people they ridicule.
They are not moaning. Unlike other industries such as the people behind Hurt Locker who is suing EVERYONE who downloaded it via torrent. (trust me,thats a lot of people) The video game has never made any notable law suit to sue someone for uploading or downloading a video game via torrent.

DRM was actually created to increase sales since people couldn't just give the game away to their friends, while also thwarting pirating in the process, and in the perspective of a Video Game Company, increased sales was always a good thing.
 

SyphonX

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Mar 22, 2009
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Mcface said:
You can't charge 60 dollars for some people, and 10 for others. Know why? It aint fair to the other guy. You may think stealing software is harmless, but you are literally taking money out of peoples pockets who worked hard on the game. And you dare me? Bro before I started earning a military salary I didn't have shit. I had my buddys old system that I played used games on. I didn't ONCE pirate a game. Grow the fuck up.
Really? Where is the magical world you live in, where your $10 is the same as the $10 in any other given country? You do realize, in some countries, keeping the price at $60 is equivalent to a few hundred bucks, or even much, much more..

Yeah, poor you, it's so not fair that someone doesn't have to pay a hundred dollars more, or the equivalent of their weekly salary, if that.

You tell me to grow the fuck up, when you don't even understand that basic fact. Let me ask you, have you been in another country within your military career? If so, then you've surely had to deal with fluctuations in currency exchange, and realize that your $1 is vastly different in some countries, in one way direction or another, up or down.. ?
 

Akai Shizuku

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Jul 24, 2009
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Katana314 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Because I like games but don't have any money. The rich have enough restricted to their socioeconomic class as it is. Fuck the corporations. They're not making as much money as they would have without piracy but piracy will never drive them out of business.
I'm pretty sure this has been covered. You've got this pie-in-the-sky belief that gaming is a "right", and that no one can "take that right away". No, it's a privilege. A privilege granted by paying for the games. I like eating hamburgers. If I show up at a fast food place without a dollar to pay for one, that's just me being dumb.

To everyone saying that they're sure the developers would just want you playing: Don't pull this sort of thing out of your ass. I'm working to become a developer myself and I know I'd want my players to be rightful purchasers. I realize people like the South Park developers have a different mindset, but that's partially because they're already successful, and partially because they're different.

There are enough free PC games in existence that I see little to no reason for anyone to pick piracy just because they want to play the games everyone else is playing.

xemnahort: I think in general people have found video games to HURT their life issues more than help. Video games can be a great stress relief, but more often they turn out to be a distraction from far more important issues. How often do your clanmates post on your forum saying "Hey guys, I need to stop playing for a while to deal with some life stuff."
Akai Shizuku said:
2) I wanted to have my say, but I didn't want to get into a serious debate.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Jul 15, 2009
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xemnahort said:
reap579 said:
LordNue said:
If the simple fact is that you can't afford games then you can do without them. Games are a luxury, not a requirement for life. If you can't afford the price on something then you don't really have the right to own it, do you? Just because no one gets hurt doesn't make it right.
Ding ding ding!
We have a winner!
u fail 4 being a retard b/c seriously for some people games offer a way to deal with life and if their coping mechanism is taken then they should do whatever it takes to keep from going into the homicidal deprivation stage and almost everyone who says games are a luxury r hypocrites
Learn to spell and use grammar, it becomes hard to take a point seriously when you can't quite tell what they are saying. It's not an IM chat, it's a thread, you can take your time.

How is that him failing exactly, he has a point. Maybe those people should get books out at a library, sorry but if rules like laws against piracy make exceptions like that, then all it would take is for someone to figure out how to abuse that as well.

EDIT: Also, I assume you must think since I say that, that makes me a hypocrite? I have never pirated a game and never will.

You can always lay by purchase something and pay it off, there are ways for poorer people to still gain access to the same games by this and other means.
 

krazymouse

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Apr 7, 2009
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SyphonX said:
Mcface said:
You can't charge 60 dollars for some people, and 10 for others. Know why? It aint fair to the other guy. You may think stealing software is harmless, but you are literally taking money out of peoples pockets who worked hard on the game. And you dare me? Bro before I started earning a military salary I didn't have shit. I had my buddys old system that I played used games on. I didn't ONCE pirate a game. Grow the fuck up.
Really? Where is the magical world you live in, where your $10 is the same as the $10 in any other given country? You do realize, in some countries, keeping the price at $60 is equivalent to a few hundred bucks, or even much, much more..

Yeah, poor you, it's so not fair that someone doesn't have to pay a hundred dollars more, or the equivalent of their weekly salary, if that.

You tell me to grow the fuck up, when you don't even understand that basic fact. Let me ask you, have you been in another country within your military career? If so, then you've surely had to deal with fluctuations in currency exchange, and realize that your $1 is vastly different in some countries, in one way direction or another, up or down.. ?
Yes, technically, the fluctuations in currency does make the unfortunate person have to pay extra sometimes.

However, if video game companies implemented this, who would stop people from simply buying it in cheaper countries, than sending the games to the parts of the world who have a higher money value to be sold for cheaper amounts? Technically, it's not pirating, yet, the company would lose huge sums of money when the game has a $10 discount tag, even though it is completely legal.

Not to mention retailers would get extremely angry that another retailer gets to sell it for cheaper amounts. Maybe the retailer might even stop selling the game.

No Video game company would like that to happen, and that is what would happen if they implemented that.
 

likalaruku

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Nov 29, 2008
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I'd like to make 430 dollars an hour :p

$50 is normal for a US game, sometimes they're $60.

I can think of 3 times it's okey to pirate or to at least smuggle a legally purchaced copy from overseas:

1)Console exclucivity says you can't play this game unless you pony up hundreds of dollars more for the console. Find an unofficial PC port & emulator.
2)Your country has banned the game or just isn't selling it.
3)You legally purchaced the game a long time ago & now it's out of print & the used copies are rediculously expencive.
 

SyphonX

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Mar 22, 2009
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krazymouse said:
Yes, technically, the fluctuations in currency does make the unfortunate person have to pay extra sometimes.

However, if video game companies implemented this, who would stop people from simply buying it in cheaper countries, than sending the games to the parts of the world who have a higher money value to be sold for cheaper amounts? Technically, it's not pirating, yet, the company would lose huge sums of money when the game has a $10 discount tag, even though it is completely legal.

Not to mention retailers would get extremely angry that another retailer gets to sell it for cheaper amounts. Maybe the retailer might even stop selling the game.

No Video game company would like that to happen, and that is what would happen if they implemented that.
Import/Export restrictions/limitations. It is done with a whole myriad of consumer products, and works quite well. Yes, some people still manage to import games, from other countries, but there are many costs, and you're lucky to make it worthwhile, let alone save much money. What's the value in paying for $30 international shipping, for example, when it literally matches the base price you would have paid in your home region in the first place?

I've already said all this in an earlier post. Countries in Europe have vastly different prices for the same automobiles, even when factoring in the currency rates. Most people are none the wiser to the fact that they could pay 30% less in a nearby country. Nor are are they "angry" and nary a retailer is "angry at other retailers", maybe a smidge, but that's business and they adapt. This model of varying prices, region-to-region, has been a business model for thousands of years. Imagine that. I guess game publishers are exempt from this, and game-consumers are too special to have someone in another country pay a different price... .

-"Grr, I'd be so angry that someone didn't pay their weekly salary for a single game I bought, along with the cart full that I purchased at the same time. That's just not fair. I had to stop eating McDonalds for a few days to afford it. *Cry*.. [sad face]."-
 

TheEpic_1

Mmmm.. Zephyr Biscut
Jan 8, 2010
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xemnahort said:
reap579 said:
LordNue said:
If the simple fact is that you can't afford games then you can do without them. Games are a luxury, not a requirement for life. If you can't afford the price on something then you don't really have the right to own it, do you? Just because no one gets hurt doesn't make it right.
Ding ding ding!
We have a winner!
u fail 4 being a retard b/c seriously for some people games offer a way to deal with life and if their coping mechanism is taken then they should do whatever it takes to keep from going into the homicidal deprivation stage and almost everyone who says games are a luxury r hypocrites
Xemnahort, i think you may have some form of gaming addiction if thats how you think. in fact anyone who disagrees with gaming is a luxury may have some form of addiction. there are people who dont play or never will play games who lead normal lives but find luxury in other things. ONLY ADDICTS CANT TELL THE DIFFRENCE BITWEEN NEED AND WANT.
 

SyphonX

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Mar 22, 2009
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TheEpic_1 said:
Xemnahort, i think you may have some form of gaming addiction if thats how you think. in fact anyone who disagrees with gaming is a luxury may have some form of addiction. there are people who dont play or never will play games who lead normal lives but find luxury in other things. ONLY ADDICTS CANT TELL THE DIFFRENCE BITWEEN NEED AND WANT.
Games, by it's cold, hard, economic definition, is a "luxury". But what kind of "luxury" is it to someone who has to pay 3x-10x more of their monetary worth than you do, for the same thing? Are you seriously saying that, the labor that you exerted for your money is more valuable than someone who would have to labor 10x as much just to buy a single game?

Every country's monetary value is different, and a metric-butt-ton of product's prices are adjusted accordingly. You're telling me that your feelings would be hurt "just too much", when they don't have to spend their week/month salary on a game you bought on a snap-decision?

Money, is fake. Sounds stupid, but it's true. Your money doesn't have the same value in every country, and it's not under anyone's control. The only thing that is identical, from country to country, is the amount of labor one exerts in order to gain it. Some places are worse than others, but in every country, common things, including entertainment, are adjusted to match that area. You pay 50x as much for a loaf of bread, while someone in another country spends barely anything at all, even for their standard of money. They don't spend hardly as much on TVs, either. They don't pay the full price you pay for your TV, into the hundreds or a grand, or more. They pay the price that matches their area, within reason, though not all companies do this.

Games for some people, are literally unobtainable. They would have to be born in another place in order to buy/play them. It's childish to think the price you paid for your game should be the base price to pay across the globe, no matter how ridiculous in some places.

None of this, I would have a huge problem over, except if it wasn't for the fact that people ***** and moan that they shouldn't have it at all. Even though it's literally unobtainable, people think they're so special and morally sound, that they "refuse to allow" people to share it, even though it affects literally nothing. Not the industry, not you, not the developers.

The game publishers are starting to get as worse as the music publishers are. They're hording as much cash as they can, little by little, until more money is being removed from the developer's hands. Good luck trying to gain a decent profit with your game, when you have few choices in which publisher you basically give your game away to. Unless you're some kind of superhero savvy business mogul, you're not going to do well in today's publishing industry. I hope you manage to get your peanuts before the franchise is destroyed.
 

Hypeoz

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Oct 8, 2009
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buying software is for tools.. I get such a feeling of satifaction when I iligaly get something online :D
 

krazymouse

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Apr 7, 2009
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SyphonX said:
krazymouse said:
Yes, technically, the fluctuations in currency does make the unfortunate person have to pay extra sometimes.

However, if video game companies implemented this, who would stop people from simply buying it in cheaper countries, than sending the games to the parts of the world who have a higher money value to be sold for cheaper amounts? Technically, it's not pirating, yet, the company would lose huge sums of money when the game has a $10 discount tag, even though it is completely legal.

Not to mention retailers would get extremely angry that another retailer gets to sell it for cheaper amounts. Maybe the retailer might even stop selling the game.

No Video game company would like that to happen, and that is what would happen if they implemented that.
Import/Export restrictions/limitations. It is done with a whole myriad of consumer products, and works quite well. Yes, some people still manage to import games, from other countries, but there are many costs, and you're lucky to make it worthwhile, let alone save much money. What's the value in paying for $30 international shipping, for example, when it literally matches the base price you would have paid in your home region in the first place?

I've already said all this in an earlier post. Countries in Europe have vastly different prices for the same automobiles, even when factoring in the currency rates. Most people are none the wiser to the fact that they could pay 30% less in a nearby country. Nor are are they "angry" and nary a retailer is "angry at other retailers", maybe a smidge, but that's business and they adapt. This model of varying prices, region-to-region, has been a business model for thousands of years. Imagine that. I guess game publishers are exempt from this, and game-consumers are too special to have someone in another country pay a different price... .

-"Grr, I'd be so angry that someone didn't pay their weekly salary for a single game I bought, along with the cart full that I purchased at the same time. That's just not fair. I had to stop eating McDonalds for a few days to afford it. *Cry*.. [sad face]."-
Sorry to say this, and I know you are going to go defensive and all, and say I'm cruel, and a terrible person, and to put my feet into someones shoes, but here is the cold hard fact that everyone must deal with...

LIFE IS NOT FAIR!

Doesn't mean thats good, but it is true, life is not fair. What you are asking for is the impossible. Some people are lucky, some people are not. However, those people who are not lucky have to cope with the problems. If you have your priorities straight, you should be able to live comfortably, whether you have video games or not. Some people who live in poor countries might not be able to buy as much games, but that does not mean turn to STEALING.

On a personal level, stealing when it is a necessity, such as food, water, or shelter, is acceptable. It's not the fault of that person, but the fault of the community. However, if you feel like you will die if you don't play video games, save your money, because EVERYONE has an income, no matter how big, and you can always create room to save money, its not impossible, even if it is 10 cents a day.
 

TheEpic_1

Mmmm.. Zephyr Biscut
Jan 8, 2010
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SyphonX said:
TheEpic_1 said:
Xemnahort, i think you may have some form of gaming addiction if thats how you think. in fact anyone who disagrees with gaming is a luxury may have some form of addiction. there are people who dont play or never will play games who lead normal lives but find luxury in other things. ONLY ADDICTS CANT TELL THE DIFFRENCE BITWEEN NEED AND WANT.
Games, by it's cold, hard, economic definition, is a "luxury". But what kind of "luxury" is it to someone who has to pay 3x-10x more of their monetary worth than you do, for the same thing? Are you seriously saying that, the labor that you exerted for your money is more valuable than someone who would have to labor 10x as much just to buy a single game?

Every country's monetary value is different, and a metric-butt-ton of product's prices are adjusted accordingly. You're telling me that your feelings would be hurt "just too much", when they don't have to spend their week/month salary on a game you bought on a snap-decision?

Money, is fake. Sounds stupid, but it's true. Your money doesn't have the same value in every country, and it's not under anyone's control. The only thing that is identical, from country to country, is the amount of labor one exerts in order to gain it. Some places are worse than others, but in every country, common things, including entertainment, are adjusted to match that area. You pay 50x as much for a loaf of bread, while someone in another country spends barely anything at all, even for their standard of money. They don't spend hardly as much on TVs, either. They don't pay the full price you pay for your TV, into the hundreds or a grand, or more. They pay the price that matches their area, within reason, though not all companies do this.

Games for some people, are literally unobtainable. They would have to be born in another place in order to buy/play them. It's childish to think the price you paid for your game should be the base price to pay across the globe, no matter how ridiculous in some places.
SyphonX, you are really trying hard to convince everybody that, in the end STEALING IS RIGHT. If something is too expensive for you, you were never ment to have it, or get a better job to pay for it. Really all i hear coming from you is that the world is to blame for some poor prick in an almost third world country trying to justify THEFT. If DRM was as good as the big boys would like and no-one could pirate anything, your saying its alright to literary ROB a games developer (or anyone else, for that fact) of there hard earned money because their to blame for the game being that expensive. IF YOUR ECONOMY IS SHIT, EVERYTHING IS EXPENSIVE. TOO BAD IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT JUST BE GREATFUL YOUR NOT STARVING TO DEATH.
 

ZombieGenesis

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Apr 15, 2009
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I honestly can't give my opinion on this, as I'm very much in two minds on the matter. Not just about games understand but all commodities and products- on the one hand legit purchase is the foundation of an economy and is needed to sustain markets, products and even a cash flow in a country. On the other hand, developers and suppliers in general have abused this facy to a -disgusting- degree. Not only in digital media but in essential products including petrol, bread and even water. Do you have any idea how much DVD sales alone of a hack hollywood production makes in sheer profit? Umpteen MILLIONS. Hell, the terrible film "Wanted" alone made more money from its DVD release than Iceland probably did in that year.

Still, so long as money can be made from something, people will do absolutely anything to defend it. So piracy will always be fought with great vengence for the good of the creator, while on the other hand those who happily exploit this defence will annually make enough money to ressurect all of Africa only to blow it on your next low-rated, high budget 360 title. Huzzah, right?

And by the way... OP, you do know that after the UN re-distributed Europe after the world war your countries Kingship was ALMOST given to the great uncle of Stephen Fry? That alone should make you proud, because Stephen Fry is freaking awesome.
 

SyphonX

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Mar 22, 2009
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Enjoy your precious, valuable games, people. I'm out, I have Red Dead Redemption and Alan Wake to play tomorrow and for a while, and this thread is not worth interrupting either of them.
 

Vuljatar

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Sep 7, 2008
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I see piracy as harmless when the item in question is something that you know, with absolute certainty, that you would never purchase.

Or something you've already purchased.

That way nobody's losing money on it.
 

6037084

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Apr 15, 2009
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I don't really buy games because first they're ridiculously expensive in my country 100 - 140$ for new releases the same stuff people from the US would pay 50-60$ for and secondly because I don't really play games for more than 10 hours unless they're really good so because of that i pirate tons of games and once in a blue moon when the game is really good I buy it and add it to my collection. Also piracy != stealing because with piracy only theoretical sales are lost not real sales
 

squid5580

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Feb 20, 2008
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LordNue said:
If the simple fact is that you can't afford games then you can do without them. Games are a luxury, not a requirement for life. If you can't afford the price on something then you don't really have the right to own it, do you? Just because no one gets hurt doesn't make it right.
How is no one getting hurt? We have draconian DRMs thanks to piracy. That hurts us. So we boycott the game. That hurts them. And it just ripples from there. The company has to fire thier staff. The staff no longer use the coffee shop downstairs. So the coffee shop has to lay off people. And since they aren't selling as much coffee they don't need to buy as much coffee. That effects the coffee distributor. So they have to lay off people. And it just goes
down the line.

Oh and OP. WHen the day comes when I type in free games and google doesn't spit out hundreds of legit free games then you might be able to clear your conscience. But until then I hope to god it nags you and keeps you up at nights.
 

Kouen

Yea, Furry. Deal With It!
Mar 23, 2010
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What About Indie games, Second Hand Games, eBay, Steam, Free 2 Play Games?

Hell Even CDKey stores!

If your already Downloading the Pirated Release then the Steam, Free 2 Play or CDKey route shouldn't stop you