Is piracy bad when you don't have a choice ?

spartan231490

New member
Jan 14, 2010
5,186
0
0
SyphonX said:
So you folks don't want these people to experience a form of art, even though, given the circumstance, they cannot afford the game no matter what? Therefore they are not a lost sale in any regard, because they couldn't buy the game in the first place. You people, out of some spiteful bullshit attitude, would rather see these people not play games even though their doing so affects absolutely nothing but entertain them and spread word of mouth perks on good games?

Do you people even listen to yourselves? Gaming, a luxury? If I was a game developer, and I knew that in certain places, people couldn't afford my game, under any circumstance, I would most certainly want them to play it anyway. Within reason.

Fuck anyone who disagrees with that. You carry such a self-righteous attitude towards this null and void mild problem that you spit on people and claim they shouldn't enjoy games anyway.

If companies are not going to adjust prices when appropriate, and are so stubborn to suggest that they don't care if there are virtually no sales in a given region, and still refuse to adjust, then they deserve to have it pirated it in that region. It's just simply ignorant. It isn't jewelery, or food, it's video games. While not being anything that someone "needs", it's certainly something that helps people cope with everyday life, just as much as a book or film does. If I were an author, and people were "stealing" my books and not paying for them in various regions, because they couldn't afford it, I would be seriously proud and virtually indifferent. Same with film. If no one is going to adjust the price, then what is the point. Really, tell me the point.

I dare any of you people to adjust your economic situation to the point where you can't afford basic entertainment to cope with life, and with no change seen in the future, and I DARE YOU to tell me that you would still agree with people that say you don't deserve to at least try and obtain some entertainment to keep sane.
dont be such an a$$, i almost agree with u, but this is effectively a poll about what your oppinion is, and you have no right to be such a jerk to people for stating an opinion. if piracy doesnt hurt anyone when the pirate cant afford the game anyway, than how does these people saying that it does, when they have 0 power to stop it, change anything. it doesnt, so done be such a d!(%

as for my oppinion, yes its wrong, its stealing. but it doesnt hurt anyone, so i wouldnt lose any sleep over it. Just think of yourself as a modern day robin hood, kinda.
 

Doug

New member
Apr 23, 2008
5,205
0
0
Furburt said:
It is a gray area though, I'm not sure I can really take one side or the other.
Same here - its easy to sit in the west and decry the piracy of second world nations like Romania, but...really, I don't know I wouldn't do the same in their situation.

It does seem silly that these games cost so much realitive to the average pay. I mean, if you used all your pay for a year you'd only be able to afford 7 games! Its ridiculous that such a price is being put on those products in a second world nation. That said, it is a luxury, not a necessity, so... I don't know.
 

Steppin Razor

New member
Dec 15, 2009
6,868
0
0
XinfiniteX said:
It's still wrong. And $50 is not expensive for games at all. Here in Australia, most new releases retail for AU$109 (about US$99). It's as simple as this; just because I can't afford to buy a Aston Martin does not mean that it's okay to steal one.
Hi five for a fellow Australian suffering high prices. Have you seen the ridiculous prices they're charging for Modern Warfare 2 and Bad Company 2 on Steam?
 

Luke Cartner

New member
May 6, 2010
317
0
0
Plurralbles said:
Luke Cartner said:
SyphonX said:
So you folks don't want these people to experience a form of art, even though, given the circumstance, they cannot afford the game no matter what? Therefore they are not a lost sale in any regard, because they couldn't buy the game in the first place. You people, out of some spiteful bullshit attitude, would rather see these people not play games even though their doing so affects absolutely nothing but entertain them and spread word of mouth perks on good games?

Do you people even listen to yourselves? Gaming, a luxury? If I was a game developer, and I knew that in certain places, people couldn't afford my game, under any circumstance, I would most certainly want them to play it anyway. Within reason.

Fuck anyone who disagrees with that. You carry such a self-righteous attitude towards this null and void mild problem that you spit on people and claim they shouldn't enjoy games anyway.
hear hear
I couldn't agree more.
I've heard alot of people on these forums call pirates arrogant with a sense of entitlement but to me this approach of barring access to games to those who cant afford seems just as bad.
apparantly scarcity doesn't exist in your world?

Well, I guess that can be true. It is all just digital.

Meh. I still think it hurts local businesses though just pulling stuff off the internet in a cafe instead of going out an dbuying a local football or something.
I'm not sure what you are referring to, as piracy is about copy right infringement (not stealing, nor scarcity. As the images are not scarce nor are the originals taken)
Regardless wouldn't your argument prove just as true about buying from overseas catelogs, steam or amazon?

More importantly I dont see the link between my comment that downloading a game for free is no more arrogant than insisting that games are only accessible to those who have a large amount of disposable wealth when the media cost is a $2 dvd blank and your comment about scarcity.
 

MiracleOfSound

Fight like a Krogan
Jan 3, 2009
17,776
0
0
Krelias said:
I live in Romania

Now, i respect the western point of view that intelectual property and creation in general has to be financially rewarded otherwise the entertainment business would cease to exist but for most people here if there wouldn't be piracy they wouldn't afford to buy games -period- so if you look at it my way verry few potential customers are lost really.
Interesting.

In the city I live in there are a particular group of Romanians that have been in the news because they are known thieves and have been repeatedly caught stealing from numerous shops for years and years (I even caught them myself a few times).

A local shop owner put a picture of them on her shopfront saying 'beware' and now she's in trouble and getting death threats from the anti-racism people (how ironic) and other Romanians.

The justification given? 'They have a different culture. It's not like the 'western point of view'. 'They need to steal because they have no money'.

I am sorry, but anyone who steals from anyone else is a douchebag, no matter where they come from or what their nationality/background.

The result? People in the town have developed a racist and prejudiced attitude towards Romanian people. Stupid? Yes. Human nature of developing fear due to bad experience? Yes.

Coming from Romania or any other country and being poor does not give you or anyone the right to steal from other people, be they your fellow countrymen, American software developers or Irish bookshop owners.

Stealing is wrong, in any shape or form.
 

spartan231490

New member
Jan 14, 2010
5,186
0
0
scobie said:
Krelias said:
So my question is "should someone feel guilty for pirating a software that he or she can't afford ?" since there's really no affected party involved i mean the developer is losing only the chance to sell the product to one more person who wouldn't have aforded it anyway.
As a diehard consequentialist, I find this argument extremely compelling. The logic essentially being: if I don't pirate the game, I don't have the game and the company doesn't have my money. If I pirate the game, then I have the game and the company doesn't have my money. Thus piracy is obviously the right choice.

I would just like to clarify here that I'm not trying to advocate piracy. But I am saying that the argument for piracy under those circumstances seems pretty good from a utilitarian perspective. I have never, however, come across an equalling compelling argument from the other side - all I've seen is people saying "It's just wrong" and dropping the matter. It's not the same as theft, because no-one is actually losing anything. So I'm still on the fence.
LordNue said:
Just because no one gets hurt doesn't make it right.
If it genuinely doesn't hurt anyone, and benefits someone, then to me it's perfectly morally acceptable. As someone who remains undecided on the matter of piracy, would someone care to explain to me, in terms a utilitarian might understand, why piracy is wrong when you're pirating something you wouldn't have bought anyway? Explain to me, essentially, who is being hurt. I'm seriously asking because I want to know what the answer is. Because from my perspective, most of what I see coming from the anti-piracy side is self-righteous posturing, in this case condemning someone who lives in much less fortunate circumstances than most of the people in this thread and telling him "you'll just have to do without, then, won't you?" for no particular reason.

You've got a chance to bring me over to your side. Give it your best shot.
No one is hurt, but that doesnt make it right. regardless, you are effectively taking something from someone, without giving them anything in return. You probably have multiple eggs in your fridge, if i came in your house, and took one of your eggs because i was starving, of course thats wrong. But you have more, and can likely buy as many as u want so, its not that bad, like i said, nothing to lose sleep over.
 

Luke Cartner

New member
May 6, 2010
317
0
0
Eliam_Dar said:
Luke Cartner said:
Eliam_Dar said:
Luke Cartner said:
Eliam_Dar said:
Steam is the answer, where you can find games at awsome prices
For those of us who live in countries with download limits steam really doesn't work for most mainstream games.
I live in Argentina =/
I have download limits and it works. However if your limits are lower than mine I can understand.
For games like torch light, sure it works the game is only about 300 mb. But when you have a download limit of 10 gb then games with foot prints of 2 - 3 gb if not more dont really work.
Yup, your limit is lower than mine then. Mine is about 150gb.
Why even bother with a limit if it is so high?
Boy am I jealous.
 

Gasaraki

New member
Oct 15, 2009
631
0
0
In your case I don't think it's that bad because, as you said, there isn't much loss of potential customers.
 

Doug

New member
Apr 23, 2008
5,205
0
0
Orcus_35 said:
I imagine a world where hundreds of gaming moguls are existing making Truly great games without thinking of the profit directly, where games cost 1 euro.
Not as impossible as it might seem; one day, who knows when, the product economy will actually be wholly handled by nano-robotics, and so the service and 'intellual property' economy will actually be all their is for humans to do, and without the threat of starvation, profits will become far less important.

Of course, this could be anywhere from 10 to 10,000 years in the future, wholly dependent on our rate of advancement, and if our civilization survives the energy crisis, which we do have good odds of doing - we'll most likely survive climate create regardless, though most likely in reduced numbers.
 

Billion Backs

New member
Apr 20, 2010
1,431
0
0
Pirating is not stealing.

It's much closer to borrowing a friend's tape, cd, whatever in the idea, if more global.
Granted, all the companies releasing said tape, cd, whatever would want you to pay for it each time, if not for each use because you probably won't be watching that shiny new movie you bought more then a few times in your whole lifetime.

When one pirates something, the original is left intact within the owner's hands. Nothing of value is lost, aside from some kind of potential income (as in, bullshit figures pulled out of one's ass) which isn't even a problem in cases where said pirate has no way of buying the game in the first place.

Frankly, I think that information should be free, whether it affects our current economic system or not.
Krelias said:
I think that i've led everyone down a wrong path by overstating the less than fortunate financial condition of people in my home country. I wasn't trying to make anyone "feel" for the "poor people" that pirate games cause theý just have no money to buy them. I was just trying to say that when it's coupled with someone's incappacity to buy a game, piracy becomes a victimless crime, something that hurts no one. But that's just me i need to find a rational reason for doing or restrainig myself from doing someting I want to do "just cause it's wrong" doesn't cut it :)
What he said, too.
 

Infinatex

BLAM!Headshot?!
May 19, 2009
1,890
0
0
Alpha1089 said:
XinfiniteX said:
It's still wrong. And $50 is not expensive for games at all. Here in Australia, most new releases retail for AU$109 (about US$99). It's as simple as this; just because I can't afford to buy a Aston Martin does not mean that it's okay to steal one.
Hi five for a fellow Australian suffering high prices. Have you seen the ridiculous prices they're charging for Modern Warfare 2 and Bad Company 2 on Steam?
Yeah tell me about! Though $69 for BC2 is better then $109 in actual stores. And I guess the craaaaazy Steam sales make up for it! Whooo! Dirt2 for 10 bucks

EDIT: Check out the Sega pack they have at the moment!
 

Cody211282

New member
Apr 25, 2009
2,892
0
0
LordNue said:
If the simple fact is that you can't afford games then you can do without them. Games are a luxury, not a requirement for life. If you can't afford the price on something then you don't really have the right to own it, do you? Just because no one gets hurt doesn't make it right.
Holy crap someone who thinks like me, but mind you last time I said this I was called a bigot because evidently I didn't want poor people to have any fun. I don't get why people think they are entitled to something for free just because they can't afford it, it's not like gaming is the only way to pass the time.

SyphonX said:
So you folks don't want these people to experience a form of art, even though, given the circumstance, they cannot afford the game no matter what? Therefore they are not a lost sale in any regard, because they couldn't buy the game in the first place. You people, out of some spiteful bullshit attitude, would rather see these people not play games even though their doing so affects absolutely nothing but entertain them and spread word of mouth perks on good games?
What right do they have to the product if they didn't pay for it, and the "because I don't have the money" reason is bull, I don't have the money for my own jet even though I want one, but that doesn't mean I can go out and steal it. And it's not like gaming is the only form of entertainment around, I mean hell it's only been around for about 20-30 years, what did they do before that, oh yea wait, you could go outside with friends, maybe play cards, go hiking, pick up a sport, start working out, you know something they can afford.


SyphonX said:
Do you people even listen to yourselves? Gaming, a luxury? If I was a game developer, and I knew that in certain places, people couldn't afford my game, under any circumstance, I would most certainly want them to play it anyway. Within reason.
How is gaming not a luxury, it isn't needed to live, it doesn't make life easier, it's just entertainment, like a movie or tv show, or hell cards, all things that are cheaper and they probably can afford without stealing.


SyphonX said:
Fuck anyone who disagrees with that. You carry such a self-righteous attitude towards this null and void mild problem that you spit on people and claim they shouldn't enjoy games anyway.
Null and void mild problem? Do you know about the DRM bullshit we have to put up with because of pirates? And no if they can't pay they can't pay, just like golfing or skiing. I haven't been able to afford to be able to gold of ski this year so you know what, I just didn't go


SyphonX said:
If companies are not going to adjust prices when appropriate, and are so stubborn to suggest that they don't care if there are virtually no sales in a given region, and still refuse to adjust, then they deserve to have it pirated it in that region. It's just simply ignorant. It isn't jewelery, or food, it's video games. While not being anything that someone "needs", it's certainly something that helps people cope with everyday life, just as much as a book or film does. If I were an author, and people were "stealing" my books and not paying for them in various regions, because they couldn't afford it, I would be seriously proud and virtually indifferent. Same with film. If no one is going to adjust the price, then what is the point. Really, tell me the point.
The point is they need to make money, that's why they put out a product. People don't need it, they aren't entitled to it, so why the hell should they get it for free?

SyphonX said:
I dare any of you people to adjust your economic situation to the point where you can't afford basic entertainment to cope with life, and with no change seen in the future, and I DARE YOU to tell me that you would still agree with people that say you don't deserve to at least try and obtain some entertainment to keep sane.
Yea been there done that, you know what I did. I went out and just pent time with friends, we played board games or went to the park, if it was snowing we would go make forts. There are plenty of cheap and free ways to entertain yourself, just because you can't afford the popular means of doing it doesn't give you the right to steal.
 

Swarley

New member
Apr 5, 2010
615
0
0
Pirate it, no reason to pay more than you have to. Plus if the prices are that ridiculous compared to your income you wouldn't buy it anyway, so in the end their revenue isn't really effected.
 

TruthMan

New member
May 20, 2009
101
0
0
well honestly its technically stealing... however you have to realize that the studio isn't "losing" money if you couldnt buy the game in the first place i think that the Dev's would rather have their art appreciated then you fast for a month so you can buy their game... i personally pirate every game before i buy it just to make sure it actually deserves my money. if i enjoyed it i buy it
 

Veldt Falsetto

New member
Dec 26, 2009
1,458
0
0
What about music? I'm one of the only people around who doesn't download music but I've been getting into Jrock, having checked in HMV for any CDs, I found out I can order them in for £50 a CD, that's extortionate so they can forget it I'll download illegally, I'd say that was piracy without a choice, whatcha think?

EDIT: I forgot to mention CDs are usually £10 here. I think this is a case of being punished for having different tastes
 

kaizen2468

New member
Nov 20, 2009
366
0
0
I only buy the games I want to support, I may or may not get games I'd never normally purchase by...other means.
 

MiracleOfSound

Fight like a Krogan
Jan 3, 2009
17,776
0
0
SyphonX said:
MiracleOfSound said:
I haven't seen any looters.
I'm certainly not condoning any form of looting, by looting I assume you mean physically sacking a store, and stuff of that nature. When it comes to "pirating" games, I'm talking about downloading a ripped copy, or having someone copy a disc and pass it around, etc.

I always think of a few friends I had, growing up, that would never be able to play games if they wanted to, because they were poor. So I always let them borrow my games, or even my systems, and that was virtually the only time they could have played them. They grew up with a budding passion for video games, where they could have had none, and only enjoyed the thrills of cutting down trees, amongst an alcoholic family. Yay.
And that was altruistic of you. But still, being poor is not an excuse to steal. I can't afford a PS3, I want to play God of War 3. But I would not steal one, even if I knew I could get away with it. It's just fundamentally wrong.
 

TruthMan

New member
May 20, 2009
101
0
0
for everyone in Australia proxy through America for cheaper games (or anywere else that doesn't have an oversensitive government afraid of gamers) O No there gonna sit on the couch and shoot 1's and 0's for hours what ever will we do. my sympathies to all Aussie's