Is piracy bad when you don't have a choice ?

TheEpic_1

Mmmm.. Zephyr Biscut
Jan 8, 2010
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i was almost actually going to try and come up with a sensible thoght out arument to why pirating is wrong. but i think every argument has already been posted.

so... even if they did price adjust down to like $5 romanian would you(Krelias) buy it, even on such low wage and for the fact you would still need to leave your house and drive/walk to your nearest game shop then return to your house and wait for it to install?

how low would the game NEED to be priced for you to have to spend what little money you currently have instead of just pirating it?
 

aps1984

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Mar 24, 2010
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It just comes down to your moral beliefs. A deontologist would say it is wrong because it is copyright infringement (it's not theft, any idiot can see that).
However, a consequentialist would say that it's ok because it's a victimless crime (this is assuming the game wouldn't be paid for if it wasn't pirated).

I'm mostly a consequentialist and so I can sleep at night as long as my actions haven't done any harm. People can disagree with this all they want, but I know I'm a good person and doing nothing wrong. At the end of the day, me copying something and enjoying the copy hurts nobody :)
 

Guitarmasterx7

Day Pig
Mar 16, 2009
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Dormin111 said:
So breaking down all you said, you don't mind theft as long as it's relatively inconsequential. Ok, so do you think homeless people should have an open license to steal from anyone they want to as long as they keep the thefts below $20. After all, that is relatively little money to most victims and quite ab it of money for a homeless man.
You're missing the point. Let's say a homeless man steals 5 dollars from somebody who isn't me. Firstly, it's not my five dollars, so it's not my problem. Second, it's five dollars. Even if it WAS mine, I would probably just be like, "fuckin' hobo stole my 5 bucks" and get over it. Third, even if I was genuinely pissed that some hobo took a strangers money, I couldn't use my morality to alter time and make that hobo unsteal that five dollars. Also in many cases that's sort of a bad simile, because if the person didn't think the game was worth any kind of purchase it would be more similar to a hobo stealing a ham from the supermarket that was past the sell-by date. Nobody really loses anything and the hobo gets his ham.

Also, at no point did I say it should be legal. I just said I didn't care if people did it or not.
 

manaman

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Sep 2, 2007
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Furburt said:
It is a gray area though, I'm not sure I can really take one side or the other.
It's not even a gray area. You create a song, game, movie, whatever you are entitled to money from the people that watch, play, or listen to it.

OP: Pirate all you want, I am not one to stop you, I think piracy is an overblown issue by a bunch of giant companies that see the world changing around them and refuse to change with it. But that doesn't mean I think it is right, any more then I think it is right for you to walk into a bookstore and scan all the pages of a book and walk out reading on ebook reader.
 

Maelgwyn

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Nov 26, 2009
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My two cents.

Its incredibly difficult to say what I would do in that situation. Right now, my partner is possibly going to be fired (because of many many reasons that arent entirely their fault) and we could be living on my income. It barely makes the bills and the rent and the food. So will I steal games because they are outside of my price range?

No.

But that is MY moral code. I prefer to play little flash games (some of them can suck time away quick) or play some abandonware (that is the kind of piracy that I have less problems with) or replay the titles on the shelf. I wont download say, Starcraft II (though I will swap a child for it) illegally to play it. The developer may not get the money from me, but also I wont possess their intellectual property.

But, you know, cynically, if you were playing outside and not using PCs and the like, your power bill would be lower and you would have more free income that you could devote to other things.

Also, the egg analogy that is thrown around here - you have a copy of HIS egg. Therefore it is still his because its like photocopying sheet music - its still the publishers
 

Hashime

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Jan 13, 2010
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I can afford games but still pirate. Games make a tremendous amount of money for big companies, and if I want a game I'll procure it. I will not however pirate indie games, as those devs are not rolling in cash like the big devs. If I like a game enough I'll buy it, if not, I just played an extended demo.
 

Akai Shizuku

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Jul 24, 2009
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Piracy is always okay. You're not stealing anything, you're copying a game and playing that copy. No one loses anything. It's sharing. <url=http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf>Being a pirate is alright to be.

Also, this.

http://cruciality.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/piracy-global-warming.jpg
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Irridium said:
I agree that companies and publishers need to adjust prices for overseas markets. Charging what could be a whole month's salary for a game is just stupid and wrong.

However it is also wrong to steal something you don't even need to live.
You can go without games, and while I do feel for your situation, you do have a choice. Pirate or don't.

Granted as Furburt said, this is a very grey area, and I can't really take a side.

Publishers need to adjust prices for regions, people in the regions need to stop stealing.
while it does suck, then everyone would just import from where ever, the game price is based off of more of demand and the means to get it there

im assuming romania doesn't have as much as a gaming follow or the means to get them there such as america or the main countries in the UK, so shipping/means to get it there also factor into the cost, as does how many people actually buy the games

itd be a great equal world if things were based on your national annual earnings and whatnot, but the real world is a unfair place
 

Mcface

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Aug 30, 2009
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Krelias said:
I live in Romania where the minimum wage varies around 350 euros (430 dollars) and the average new release costs around 40 euro (50 dollars) most of the times more expensive than in the US or UK for example(this i think is beacause they fall in a certain category of products that are heavly taxed). Here software piracy is a way of life most releases are played waaay before the hit the stores and most people justify their abuse of software piracy by their lack of money to spend on games or other software.

Now, i respect the western point of view that intelectual property and creation in general has to be financially rewarded otherwise the entertainment business would cease to exist but for most people here if there wouldn't be piracy they wouldn't afford to buy games -period- so if you look at it my way verry few potential customers are lost really.

I know that the argument against what i'm saying would be something along the lines of: "people who use pirated software just don't care about morals or the fate of the sudios that developed their favourite games" and i have to admit that i've seen that mentality showcased around those around me "why pay money for something i can get for free" or "i will never pay for a game as long as there's piracy" and i agree that those people no matter how hardcore they think they are don't deserve to be called gamers, but i've also seen recently people who save up to buy the most anticipated titles or sequels to their favourites, even collectors editions after playing a game just to reward the satisfaction given to them by that game's developers.

Romanian society as a whole is really primitive when it comes to understanding a market economy even if it's been around for twenty years, but people are starting to understand why it is better to buy rather then steal even when it comes to software. Even if things are starting too look up piracy remains rampant cause it simply determined by economy.

So my question is "should someone feel guilty for pirating a software that he or she can't afford ?" since there's really no affected party involved i mean the developer is losing only the chance to sell the product to one more person who wouldn't have aforded it anyway.
uhh.. you are not stealing water for your survival. it's a video game.
If your people can afford computers to play the games, or consoles, you can afford to buy the games for it.
 

TheEpic_1

Mmmm.. Zephyr Biscut
Jan 8, 2010
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i cannot believe some people who say it ok to steal games from big publishers...
ARE YOU FUCKING IDIOTS, HOW DO YOU THINK THEY GOT THAT WAY, BY PRAYING AND WISHING ON SHOOTING STARS. NO. THEY ALL STARTED OUT SMALL AND REQUIRED PEOPLE TO BUY!! THEIR GAMES TO MAKE PROFIT TO PAY FOR BETTER GAME ENGINES AND TO TRAIN BETTER DEVS.

hypothetically, if activision made a new COD which cost them $1b to make, then everybody just pirated it HOW ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE THAT MONEY BACK??? DO NOT SAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT, CAUSE THERE AGAIN YOU ARE PAYING TO KEEP THE GAME RUNNING.

big or small developer, they make their living by creating your past-time / hobby. thank them for all their hard work by PAYING FOR IT!
 

Mcface

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Aug 30, 2009
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SyphonX said:
So you folks don't want these people to experience a form of art, even though, given the circumstance, they cannot afford the game no matter what? Therefore they are not a lost sale in any regard, because they couldn't buy the game in the first place. You people, out of some spiteful bullshit attitude, would rather see these people not play games even though their doing so affects absolutely nothing but entertain them and spread word of mouth perks on good games?

Do you people even listen to yourselves? Gaming, a luxury? If I was a game developer, and I knew that in certain places, people couldn't afford my game, under any circumstance, I would most certainly want them to play it anyway. Within reason.

Fuck anyone who disagrees with that. You carry such a self-righteous attitude towards this null and void mild problem that you spit on people and claim they shouldn't enjoy games anyway.

If companies are not going to adjust prices when appropriate, and are so stubborn to suggest that they don't care if there are virtually no sales in a given region, and still refuse to adjust, then they deserve to have it pirated it in that region. It's just simply ignorant. It isn't jewelery, or food, it's video games. While not being anything that someone "needs", it's certainly something that helps people cope with everyday life, just as much as a book or film does. If I were an author, and people were "stealing" my books and not paying for them in various regions, because they couldn't afford it, I would be seriously proud and virtually indifferent. Same with film. If no one is going to adjust the price, then what is the point. Really, tell me the point.

I dare any of you people to adjust your economic situation to the point where you can't afford basic entertainment to cope with life, and with no change seen in the future, and I DARE YOU to tell me that you would still agree with people that say you don't deserve to at least try and obtain some entertainment to keep sane.
You can't charge 60 dollars for some people, and 10 for others. Know why? It aint fair to the other guy. You may think stealing software is harmless, but you are literally taking money out of peoples pockets who worked hard on the game. And you dare me? Bro before I started earning a military salary I didn't have shit. I had my buddys old system that I played used games on. I didn't ONCE pirate a game. Grow the fuck up.
 

MgsTheFury

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Dec 2, 2009
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Piracy is and will never be remotely ok.

"Oh, you've worked three years on this, we're just gonna take it."
 

Deadarm

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Sep 8, 2008
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Well personally I don't care one way or the other about it. However when the fine for pirating is higher than a settlement for most violent crime victems, its not worth it for me to pirate something considering that I would likely get caught because I'm related to a very sterotypical looking cop.
 

scotth266

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Jan 10, 2009
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No, it's not justifiable to pirate games and then say "well, I only did it because I couldn't afford them."

Games are not necessary for life: they are most certainly a luxury good, and the fact that they are easily stolen does not make it right for those unable to afford them to swipe them.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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I get the feeling that all the comments along the lines of "if you can't afford it you should just go without" are coming from people who can afford legit games.

If a person who cannot buy a game decides to pirate it instead then nobody has lost any money. So I say go for it.
 

scotth266

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Jan 10, 2009
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Akai Shizuku said:
Piracy is always okay. You're not stealing anything, you're copying a game and playing that copy. No one loses anything. It's sharing.

<url=http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf>Being a pirate is alright to be.

Also, this.

http://cruciality.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/piracy-global-warming.jpg
I missed this little gem. Let's see here:

1) Oh yes, someone is losing something here. The developer is losing their right to their intellectual property, and the money they would have gotten were you forced to legally purchase the game.

2) Admittedly, the animation is hilarious. But I digress:

3) If you're so concerned about the enviornment, how about you go and buy from any of the MANY digital download services such as Steam, Direct 2 Drive, Impulse, Greenhouse Games, Good Old Games, etc?
 

Lim3

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Feb 15, 2010
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I don't think the pricing of games is right. Here in Australia a new release can be $110. In America a new release is $50. By today's exchange rates $US50 = $AUS55.91, which means we have a $AU54.09 markup.

Its price gouging plain and simple. I don't pirate games - and wish justice on those who pirate games, movies and CDs but its not fair that just because a game is sold in Australia retail should mark it up 100%.

Granted there are shipping costs but i just checked a few games then and 2/3 were made in Singapore - which is far closer to Australia than US so that excuse can't be used for 100% mark ups on price.
 

Akai Shizuku

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Jul 24, 2009
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scotth266 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Piracy is always okay. You're not stealing anything, you're copying a game and playing that copy. No one loses anything. It's sharing.

<url=http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf>Being a pirate is alright to be.

Also, this.

http://cruciality.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/piracy-global-warming.jpg
I missed this little gem. Let's see here:

1) Oh yes, someone is losing something here. The developer is losing their right to their intellectual property, and the money they would have gotten were you forced to legally purchase the game.

2) Admittedly, the animation is hilarious. But I digress:

3) If you're so concerned about the enviornment, how about you go and buy from any of the MANY digital download services such as Steam, Direct 2 Drive, Impulse, Greenhouse Games, Good Old Games, etc?
1) What the fuck does "intellectual property" mean? It's a very abstract concept. The way I see it it only becomes a problem if people start copying and selling the games, that's just a dick move.

2) I wanted to have my say, but I didn't want to get into a serious debate.

3) Because I like games but don't have any money. The rich have enough restricted to their socioeconomic class as it is. Fuck the corporations. They're not making as much money as they would have without piracy but piracy will never drive them out of business.
 

xemnahort

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May 15, 2010
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reap579 said:
LordNue said:
If the simple fact is that you can't afford games then you can do without them. Games are a luxury, not a requirement for life. If you can't afford the price on something then you don't really have the right to own it, do you? Just because no one gets hurt doesn't make it right.
Ding ding ding!
We have a winner!
u fail 4 being a retard b/c seriously for some people games offer a way to deal with life and if their coping mechanism is taken then they should do whatever it takes to keep from going into the homicidal deprivation stage and almost everyone who says games are a luxury r hypocrites