Is piracy bad when you don't have a choice ?

Seydaman

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WrongSprite said:
You still have a choice. You could just not buy the games.
Or he could pirate them and have fun, because the developers wouldn't make any money in the first place. When someone pirates a game 90% of the time it wouldn't have been a sale in the first place.
 

JEBWrench

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LordNue said:
If the simple fact is that you can't afford games then you can do without them. Games are a luxury, not a requirement for life. If you can't afford the price on something then you don't really have the right to own it, do you? Just because no one gets hurt doesn't make it right.
WrongSprite said:
You still have a choice. You could just not buy the games.
I can't believe that people are actually disagreeing with you guys.

But then, people need to justify their decisions to steal. Otherwise they might feel guilty over being criminals.
 

Gunner 51

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By all means pirate the game, but at least pay / buy for the game later when you can afford it.
That way, everyone's happy.

You'll get your game nice and early, the devs get their profits and all the holier-than-thou types get off your back.
 

Sebenko

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Anyone else think that maybe rampant piracy in these regions is a sign that games are simply too expensive?

I'm from a relatively rich area of the world (Tha's got no excuse to go spendin` wastefully, lad!), and I pretty much don't want for anything. Yet many games released recently have elicited little more than a "That much? fuck off!" reaction, simply because they're not worth as much to me as the developers/publisher thinks they are.

I think that's less of a sign that we shouldn't buy games we can't afford (I can, I just don't want to spend more than I think it's worth. I also don't pirate, since I believe in just buying games when the price goes down. Or not getting them.), and more a sign that games are over priced.
You can't just say " £50 NOW!", and then wonder why no-one is buying your game when it isn't worth that much.
 

midget_roxx

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SyphonX said:
So you folks don't want these people to experience a form of art, even though, given the circumstance, they cannot afford the game no matter what? Therefore they are not a lost sale in any regard, because they couldn't buy the game in the first place. You people, out of some spiteful bullshit attitude, would rather see these people not play games even though their doing so affects absolutely nothing but entertain them and spread word of mouth perks on good games?

Do you people even listen to yourselves? Gaming, a luxury? If I was a game developer, and I knew that in certain places, people couldn't afford my game, under any circumstance, I would most certainly want them to play it anyway. Within reason.

Fuck anyone who disagrees with that. You carry such a self-righteous attitude towards this null and void mild problem that you spit on people and claim they shouldn't enjoy games anyway.

If companies are not going to adjust prices when appropriate, and are so stubborn to suggest that they don't care if there are virtually no sales in a given region, and still refuse to adjust, then they deserve to have it pirated it in that region. It's just simply ignorant. It isn't jewelery, or food, it's video games. While not being anything that someone "needs", it's certainly something that helps people cope with everyday life, just as much as a book or film does. If I were an author, and people were "stealing" my books and not paying for them in various regions, because they couldn't afford it, I would be seriously proud and virtually indifferent. Same with film. If no one is going to adjust the price, then what is the point. Really, tell me the point.

I dare any of you people to adjust your economic situation to the point where you can't afford basic entertainment to cope with life, and with no change seen in the future, and I DARE YOU to tell me that you would still agree with people that say you don't deserve to at least try and obtain some entertainment to keep sane.
Anyone who agrees with this post clearly has no clue how a company works or the fact that piracy IS stealing. In fact I'm seriously thinking this is a troll post because noone can be that bloody stupid to say that they wouldn't care if someone stole from them. It is a fact that computer games are a luxury and not necessary, just like the fact you are a complete moron
 

Baby Tea

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Sep 18, 2008
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SyphonX said:
I dare any of you people to adjust your economic situation to the point where you can't afford basic entertainment to cope with life, and with no change seen in the future, and I DARE YOU to tell me that you would still agree with people that say you don't deserve to at least try and obtain some entertainment to keep sane.
Well that's easy!
I'm already living below what is considered the national poverty line!
I can afford about 1 new game every few months (Barring some birthday or something).
Piracy is wrong. Objectively.

If you can't afford it, you don't get it. That's the way it goes.
I would love a BMW! It would be sweet! I can't afford one, and life goes on.

I replay the games I've been lucky enough to buy, or I do something else.
That's how I keep myself entertained. Easy.
Piracy is still wrong.

You said if you were a developer that you would be OK with people pirating your game?
The only reason you can say that is because you are not a developer. You don't have your paycheck hinging on the sales of your game. You're some guy, doing something else for a living. You have no idea what it's like for a developer to spend years making a game, only to have it pirated all over the place, and so you are hardly in any position to say 'what you would do' if you were a developer.
You just don't know what it's like.

If you can't afford a game, if a game isn't released in your area, if you're just 'testing' a game...piracy is still wrong. None of those are valid reasons. I would love to pick up the new splinter cell! I would also love to get the car-packs and track-packs for Forza 3! AND I would love to get Alan Wake! But I can't afford any of those things, so I move on. Maybe, down the road, I'll have enough money! THEN I'll buy it!
That's how it works: You work hard to make money to afford the things you want. (Remember, we aren't talking about the things you need).

Piracy isn't justifiable. I've been in countless debates and arguments with people about piracy, and I've never heard an excuse or reason for piracy that made me go 'Hmmm, maybe in that situation it would be OK...'.
It's wrong, and it's harming the industry.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Baby Tea said:
Piracy isn't justifiable. I've been in countless debates and arguments with people about piracy, and I've never heard an excuse or reason for piracy that made me go 'Hmmm, maybe in that situation it would be OK...'.
If people feel they need to justify any piracy(yarrr) they engage in then they probably shouldn't be doing it. Do it and be done with it or don't do it, fuck making excuses.


It's wrong, and it's harming the industry.
While it may be harming the industry I think the industry is a bigger threat to itself.
 

EeveeElectro

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Aug 3, 2008
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Just wait until the price goes down, or have someone buy you it for a special occasion. I suppose if you're one of those I MUST HAVE THE GAME NAAAAOOO!!! people you're in a little bit of a pickle. Look for pre-owned any websites like lovefilm as well.
 

Baby Tea

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RhomCo said:
Baby Tea said:
It's wrong, and it's harming the industry.
While it may be harming the industry I think the industry is a bigger threat to itself.
And they'll never realize that as long the 'piracy' excuse that publishers use is still there.
People are pissed off at DRM? Well I can tell you that DRM isn't here because people bought the game fair and square.
People don't like half-finished games? Well as long as piracy is an available excuse for poorer game sales (Regardless of whether that is right or wrong), then publishers can keep rushing out games before they are done.

I'll be the first to admit that there needs to be changes in the industry, but piracy hinders those changes. It's hurting the industry, it is hindering the industry's improvement and growth, and it's the root cause of DRM, which means piracy hurts the consumer.
 

Mcface

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SyphonX said:
Mcface said:
You can't charge 60 dollars for some people, and 10 for others. Know why? It aint fair to the other guy. You may think stealing software is harmless, but you are literally taking money out of peoples pockets who worked hard on the game. And you dare me? Bro before I started earning a military salary I didn't have shit. I had my buddys old system that I played used games on. I didn't ONCE pirate a game. Grow the fuck up.
Really? Where is the magical world you live in, where your $10 is the same as the $10 in any other given country? You do realize, in some countries, keeping the price at $60 is equivalent to a few hundred bucks, or even much, much more..

Yeah, poor you, it's so not fair that someone doesn't have to pay a hundred dollars more, or the equivalent of their weekly salary, if that.

You tell me to grow the fuck up, when you don't even understand that basic fact. Let me ask you, have you been in another country within your military career? If so, then you've surely had to deal with fluctuations in currency exchange, and realize that your $1 is vastly different in some countries, in one way direction or another, up or down.. ?
You fail to understand basic economy. If one countries dollar is worth LESS than your native, you don't lower the price in that country. Sure, selling a game in that country for 20 bucks might be profitable there. But if your countries dollar isn't worth shit, why should they take a huge hit on sales? It's a BUSINESS. it's not charity.
 

tjarne

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There need to be a great reduction in prices. Not to brag, but when me and my friends where on a bier trip in a Central European country we found that electronics had the same prices as home in Sweden. When the average salary was significantly lower. If I would work as an nurse in that country I would earn mush less than I would in Sweden. Even if I would do the same work. And that makes me less worthy of playing the games? Just because I'm born in a different country? Some of you either don't read what you write or are way to self-righteous.

If was a producer who cared even the slightest about my work I would gladly lower the prices to allow more people to play them.

I'm not saying it is right to pirate a game, this is a grey area. But most here aren't in a position to judge, since they can't put themselves in that situation.

Can anyone here seriously say that the money earned equals rights? Just because you have the money doesn't mean you are entitled to them.
 

tjcross

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Alpha1089 said:
tjcross said:
Suck it.
if one cannot acquire an item legally due to the limit of the copies i see no problem in pirating an item that in no way effects the company since the item is not physical anyway it's a program on a chunk of plastic newer games i do have a problem with since when you have the money and see it at the store most would not buy something they already have let us put this in my way of thinking
new game =no profit to store (the company was already paid by the store)
difficulty: easy to find
old game=no profit to some guy on e-bay or no profit because it is not on sale
difficulty:depending medium to impossible to find and very inconvenient (possibility of being lost or the the wrong item being shipped possibilty of being in bad condition or not working all together)
plus this individual buys an item of the company to make up for it so basicly he's taking some trash from the company and on the way out he's buying somthing they are selling i see nothing wrong.
now that that is out of the way i'm going back to my life do with yours what you will and by the way have a wonderful day
hey if you don't want people taking quick shots at what you are saying don't split the it so that the peron sees this
quote
angry statement
another quote
not even reading because it is assumed that this is on another topic

but i apologize anyway it was rude and idiotic of me to respond without reading the full post i think i need a break from the youtube comments section it's starting to infect me.

*facepalm*
Here's what I said straight afterwards:

Moving on from that, if a product is no longer produced then the company isn't making money from it anymore. Legally it falls into a bit of a grey area, but I don't really consider it all that bad. Especially if you then go and buy something else the developers made.
Maybe I could have made it clearer, but I'm tired and stuck at work so I'll attempt to now. If a game is no longer produced and you can't find copies of it anywhere, I fully support the downloading. Legally it falls into a grey area, but morally I have no issue with it as the company stands to make no profit no matter how you get it. Besides that, she was buying products that the company still offers so I respect her stance on it. It's certainly a hell of a lot more than I would do for most developers when their products fall by the wayside.
 

WrongSprite

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Aug 10, 2008
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seydaman said:
WrongSprite said:
You still have a choice. You could just not buy the games.
Or he could pirate them and have fun, because the developers wouldn't make any money in the first place. When someone pirates a game 90% of the time it wouldn't have been a sale in the first place.
Yeah he could have fun. Taking heroin is also fun.

However, they are both illegal.

Whether it would have been a sale or not, playing without playing is illegal, no matter how you try to disguise it.
 

Aitruis

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SyphonX said:
I will agree with you somewhat, but you're still missing the point. Issues like this have no right or wrong side. Real life is not Star Wars; everything cannot be divided neatly into good and evil. We're sitting on a huge gray area here, and one extreme of pirating everything in sight is just as bad as the other extreme of suing a teenager 85 million for pirating a game because the one he legitimately bought doesn't work properly.

With issues like this having such far-reaching implications, I believe it's best and easiest to consider things on a case-by-case basis. I think we can all agree that the circumstances of the OP's position are not exactly the same as the position in which Ubisoft customers find themselves in, so a blanket policy covering both would be difficult to handle at best. Add in millions of other individual cases, and eventually any such policy just falls apart.

Again, we're sitting on a gigantic gray area here, and to really get anywhere near the bottom of it, we have to consider all facets of the issue. Statements and attitudes like "Fuck anyone who disagrees with that." are neither a good way to consider or fix the issue.
 

HellsingerAngel

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Sikachu said:
HellsingerAngel said:
The problem is that anyone who's distributing eggs is now out of a job. But that's ok, because they have an unlimited supply of eggs, right? Well, unfortunately, you can't pay for other things with eggs, such as shelter or heating, as they've now become worthless with the ability to copy them. Suddenly, this starts a trend where other food companies like peanut butter are quickly taken out of business because eggs become the source of protein as they're so easy to get. That's more people out of jobs who can't afford their houses because all they have ar eggs, a fairly useless product in terms of selling or trading for other good and services. Then, suddenly, someone from Hungry asks Mr. Guy for an egg, because he too is hungry, but really he just doesn't want to go and get a carton of eggs when he can get them for free. Out of kindness, Mr. Guy replicates him some eggs. Soon, everyone in Hungry is saying they can't afford eggs and are asking Mr. Guy for their eggs, regardless of their finacial situation.

You see where I'm going with this?
Engaging in this counterfactual doesn't really help us with dealing with morality of piracy. The fact is that despite piracy, video games are being made and profited from. Yes, you're right, if everyone did it for every game, there would be no games industry, but that isn't the case and it isn't a useful point. Do you think that withdrawing your money from the bank is morally unacceptable? If not, do you recognise that if everyone did it our economic system would crumble down in a bigger meltdown than the great depression, plunging society into chaos? Assuming you've answered those questions as I anticipate, you must see that 'if everyone did it, things would be bad' is not useful for distinguishing 'wrongful' acts from 'rightful' acts, or at least it is insufficient. Do you have anything to add to it or replace it with?
In fact, I do have something to say. I'm not sure how banks work where you live, but in Canada, technically speaking, banks could be self sufficient. Because the entire premis of a bank is to make investments, they could still make investments without people giving them money to do so. Would they be nearly as successful? Probably not. Would people need to find a new way to store their money? Yeah, that'd be a pain, too. Would it be entirely possible without throwing our economy into the shit hole? I can confidently say for my country, a resounding yes! As long as money keeps circulating, the economy might shrink, but it won't completely crash, as you suggested. I'm sure in my example that the economy would shrink as well and I was being a tad overzealous, but you see my point, right? Even if someone decided to pull out of one or two banks, the economy would shake, and unless there is some sort of government institution to assist regulate this (like the Bank of Canada, but sadly no Video Games of Canada) it would more than likely mean a downward sprial towards a crash in that particular market. Banks wouldn't be needed except for the select few. Are you prepared to cause another Video Game crash much like in the 80s?

scobie said:
HellsingerAngel said:
scobie said:
*snip city*
I like this egg scenario people have been throwing around, so I think I'll stick with that for my example. So Mr. Guy has a replicator that can make an exact copy of something, in this case an egg. So he decides he wants to solve world hunger and replicate this egg for people who wouldn't be able to afford eggs, in this case Romania. So he copies a single egg for all of Romania and everyone is happy.

The problem is that anyone who's distributing eggs is now out of a job. But that's ok, because they have an unlimited supply of eggs, right? Well, unfortunately, you can't pay for other things with eggs, such as shelter or heating, as they've now become worthless with the ability to copy them. Suddenly, this starts a trend where other food companies like peanut butter are quickly taken out of business because eggs become the source of protein as they're so easy to get. That's more people out of jobs who can't afford their houses because all they have ar eggs, a fairly useless product in terms of selling or trading for other good and services. Then, suddenly, someone from Hungry asks Mr. Guy for an egg, because he too is hungry, but really he just doesn't want to go and get a carton of eggs when he can get them for free. Out of kindness, Mr. Guy replicates him some eggs. Soon, everyone in Hungry is saying they can't afford eggs and are asking Mr. Guy for their eggs, regardless of their finacial situation.

You see where I'm going with this? Maybe the copying of a game doesn't effect the developers directly in your isolated case but the world isn't just that simple. Suddenly the people who are distributing these disks are out of money because they lost those contracts. Other hobby stores that could also really use the money are losing out because people can just download entertainment for free instead of looking for alternatives to video games. Your actions also reinforce and educate other people on pirating, which then becomes a trend and is seen as morally acceptable. Enough people do this and there goes another gaming company because there are no renewable sources of income to invest into their next blockbuster project. So now you've just destroyed three facets of the economy through pirating and that only furthers the downward spiral of a capitalist economy (which I believe most of the world runs on now) as you truly do need to spend money for the economy to make money. If people start losing jobs, that's less money to spend, which causes more jobs to be lost. Vicious, but true.
I see what you mean. Even when not doing direct harm you can set a dangerous precedent. I can't say I've thought of it that way before. I won't say you've totally convinced me, but you've certainly given me something to think about. Admittedly, in your argument piracy is wrong because of the economic system we live in, which makes it sound more like an indictment of capitalism than of piracy, but since I'm stuck in a capitalist society for now the effects of what I do under a capitalist system are what matters.
Thanks for the consideration. I know it's difficult to convince people that piracy is wrong through simple means of factual argument. In all sense, you really need to start using extremes to get a point across that potentially won't happen. But do you really want to take the chance?

In all honesty, I'd love to see free distribution of particular titles that are of the last generation, or the generation before, through some sort of Digital Distributions Act or something. Basically, it would state that the copying of these materials would be legal so long as they're A)Clearly out of production -and- B)Are X amount of years old. Though gaming is something I'd like to share with everyone, I can't condone Copy Right Infringement. I think the point where a game becomes art is once the profits stop coming in. At that point, developers can sit back and really look at how everyone is enjoying there game and take pride in the fact that it's so well known. By the same example of art, as long as no one is making copies and claiming the work to be their own after any once of profit is made, there really is no harm in giving the thing away for free. The industry is very slowly inching its way towards this with digital redistribution of classic titles and re-makes for a small cost, but we need to really get the ball rolling on original copies of these games. If a company doesn't want to brush up the graphics, change some U.I. or add in additional features, what's the harm in fixing it up into a ROM and distributing it across the internet for anyone who wants it? Hell, at this point, they don't even have to make the programs to mount these images, they just need to make sure their code is in-line with a particular program and promote the use of it!

Where there's a buck to be made, unfortunately, companies aren't going to turn a blind eye to it. However, as I said previously, we've at least taken some steps to unsuring digital distribution cuts costs, that older games are available for very low costs (most games from about ten years back are $10 or under on digital distribution sites like Steam, GOG, Gametap, etc...) so that you may not have the flashiest of games, but you can still enjoy video games in general. And this is why I draw a line and look at people who pirate with such distain. If you can't afford to spare $10 every few months to get one of those classic titles, you're absolutely shitting me on other things, too. You cannot tell me with a straight face that you spend every single penny you earn on living costs alone. Sorry, not gonna buy it. Eat some Mac & Cheese and instant noodles for a few days a week instead of going out to McDonalds and you have yourself a classic title that will last you a lot longer than most titles out today. Saving up money for something they truly want by cutting back on other lifestyle choices is just something people have to do in the real world and you're no exception. So don't give me your "I can't afford video games" speech, because there are plenty of titles that are affordable from past generations and you're just being greedy, Mr. "Gamer"!

P.S. I just want to point out that the last bit isn't specifically directed towards Mr/Miss Scobie, but rather to whomever argues that they can't afford video games so pirating is correct.
 

Seydaman

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Nov 21, 2008
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WrongSprite said:
seydaman said:
WrongSprite said:
You still have a choice. You could just not buy the games.
Or he could pirate them and have fun, because the developers wouldn't make any money in the first place. When someone pirates a game 90% of the time it wouldn't have been a sale in the first place.
Yeah he could have fun. Taking heroin is also fun.

However, they are both illegal.

Whether it would have been a sale or not, playing without playing is illegal, no matter how you try to disguise it.
Heroin hurts the body
Fun doesn't?
And fuk yo laws.