Is punishing a kid consider abuse?

Nigh Invulnerable

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Mortai Gravesend said:
Nigh Invulnerable said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
MasochisticAvenger said:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?
Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?


But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.
Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.
I do believe that first sentence ought to be you talking to yourself. Yet you ignore it for some reason, strange.

I pointed out that it was a silly misinterpretation in the last part of my post. Why exactly do you ignore that? Why are you ignoring my point that the OP is dishonest in his representation of people's objections, claiming they are against punishment as a whole?
Hero in a half shell said:
Nigh Invulnerable said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
MasochisticAvenger said:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?
Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?


But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.
Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.
Congratulations, you almost identified the satire!

On topic, no I don't think that enforcing discipline by spanking a child or shouting at them constitutes child abuse, but it should only be done in circumstances where their disobedience was severe, or they are simply not responding to any other punishments.
Whoa, brain fart. I should stop trying to read argumentative threads on my phone, as it limits what I can read. Anyway, my bad.

The OP didn't seem to be trying to say that people were against punishment as a whole, but was referencing another thread I'd seen where people think the dad was abusing the daughter by destroying the laptop and posting a video about it online.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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Mortai Gravesend said:
MasochisticAvenger said:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?
Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?


But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.
Wow... you scared me then... I read the first 2 lines and thought 'here we go again! another flame war thread!' :p I like what you did there though!

It's true... people are being taken way out of context on the other threads, (did we really need a 4th?) and everyone is so quick to stick to black or white... that's why situations like these are actually called 'grey areas', that wasn't an accident.

The whole subject boils down to proportionality... Not many people on here, from what I gather, actually have kids, so we are pretty much just speculating, and we cannot really say what we think is acceptable until we have kids of our own, where we have to make that tricky decision on how do discapline them...


Proportionality... /thread
 

matts

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My opinion: Any form of violence as punishment for kids is abuse (that includes spanked bottoms) scientifically it doesn't work like people think it will either so...
 

Sejs Cube

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Appropriateness is key. I can't stress that enough.

Punishment should be about teaching your kid something, even if the lesson that needs to be learned is harsh. At no point should the purpose of punishment be about venting your anger onto your child. If you've got a kid, you're supposed to be the adult in the relationship; act like it.

Shit's not that difficult.
 

Erana

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Personally?

I think you should raise your kids so that you can punish them by explaining why what they did was wrong, and they feel ashamed of their own action and feel self-motivated to not do bad things like that in the future. I feel like raising a hand to your child should only be appropriate in a situation in which you would do that to any other human being.

Having to hit your child to get them to behave is pathetic to me. If they honest to God can't keep it together, then there's something wrong with them and they need help.
And I speak with experience on this one; before I had all kinds of doctor stuff, I felt terrible all the time and was grouchy and mean because of it. Getting medical stuff's improved my quality of life and my relationship with my mother.

And about shooting the laptop?
Snapping it would have been one thing, or putting it in water or most anything else would have been better than a gun. Someone who would hit me is bad enough. But someone who has to resort to firearms when they're emotional is terrifying.
Yes, using guns in any way to punish your child is a form of psychological abuse to me. An association between discipline and weapons simply should not exist, especially not for children.
 

gazumped

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See, I didn't at all find the case of the guy shooting his daughter's laptop shocking because of his action, I found it shocking because of what he was punishing her FOR.

She had the AUDACITY to complain about her parents. How dare she speak out! She does some normal teenagery moaning about having to do chores and she gets her possessions destroyed.

THAT'S what's scary about this father's actions. That he responded to such a little thing with such a threatening gesture, as if to shut her up for good.
 

Saltychipmunk

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there are acceptable forms of punishment and then there are excessive froms of punishment.

selling the lap top is ok. bringing a gun out and shooting it? excessive

spanking kids ... fine.. belting kids excessive.
 

Vault101

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uuhhhh no its considered good parenting

the severity however, is what makes or doesnt make it abuse
lisadagz said:
See, I didn't at all find the case of the guy shooting his daughter's laptop shocking because of his action, I found it shocking because of what he was punishing her FOR.

She had the AUDACITY to complain about her parents. How dare she speak out! She does some normal teenagery moaning about having to do chores and she gets her possessions destroyed.

THAT'S what's scary about this father's actions. That he responded to such a little thing with such a threatening gesture, as if to shut her up for good.
I didnt watch the Video...but yeah put that way it is a little concerning

I cant comment eather way, I dont know the situation personally
 

CrazyBlaze

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Physical punishment should be a last resort but it is not abuse unless the parents are constantly beating the kid for no reason is abuse. I do believe in physical punishment is effective. So you take something away from your kid or put them in the corner after many times and they still don't listen then you use physical punishment appropriate to the crime. I know the times I stepped out of line and was spanked I learnt my lesson and my Dad was physically punished when he was a kid and he said that it helped him. Sometimes kids just need to be punished.
 

MrTub

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Volf99 said:
Tubez said:
Volf99 said:
Tubez said:
What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.
spanking is abuse? Really?
Yeah... You're hitting somebody...
...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else
"It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else" Can you clarify that?

But may I ask how is it not abuse since you are hitting a person.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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Tubez said:
Volf99 said:
Tubez said:
Volf99 said:
Tubez said:
What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.
spanking is abuse? Really?
Yeah... You're hitting somebody...
...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else
"It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else" Can you clarify that?

But may I ask how is it not abuse since you are hitting a person.
Hitting a person =/= automatically abusing someone. When spanking is done as punishment, it is different from a parent hitting a child in the face with a closed fist.
 

MrTub

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Volf99 said:
Tubez said:
Volf99 said:
Tubez said:
Volf99 said:
Tubez said:
What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.
spanking is abuse? Really?
Yeah... You're hitting somebody...
...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else
"It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else" Can you clarify that?

But may I ask how is it not abuse since you are hitting a person.
Hitting a person =/= automatically abusing someone. When spanking is done as punishment, it is different from a parent hitting a child in the face with a closed fist.
It's still hitting somebody and I personally think its pathetic since you're venting your anger at somebody that is defenseless.
Do you also think people should be able to "spank" a grown up person as punishment for misbehaving?
 

Vegosiux

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Tubez said:
It's still hitting somebody and I personally think its pathetic since you're venting your anger at somebody that is defenseless.
Well, you can vent your anger at somebody who's defenseless by saying "Firstname Lastname, YOU'RRRRE GRRRROUNDED! Now go to your room!" Is that abuse to, because of the "venting at a defenseless one" clause?

What I'm saying here is that if it's about venting one's anger, it's not punishment at all, since it has no educational value.

Now, let me propose a scenario.

There was a kid who was caught smoking by the parents once. They made him sit down and told him to smoke the entire pack right there, in front of them, and he can't leave until then. He at first went "Pfsh, no problem!" but after 4-5 in a row, he changed his mind and decided that smoking can fuck him up pretty badly and ruining his health in order to be rebellious and stick it to the man wasn't worth it. Oh, and he didn't actually have to smoke the whole pack after he got to that point.

Now, is this abuse? As punishment, it was pretty damn effective.

I know said kid (well, he's not kid anymore). Was one of the most shocking things that happened to him, but he also admits that he'd likely not have seen the point if the parents tried to just reason with him, or if they just dealt some arbitrary punishment such as grounding.
 

MrTub

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Vegosiux said:
Tubez said:
It's still hitting somebody and I personally think its pathetic since you're venting your anger at somebody that is defenseless.
Well, you can vent your anger at somebody who's defenseless by saying "Firstname Lastname, YOU'RRRRE GRRRROUNDED! Now go to your room!" Is that abuse to, because of the "venting at a defenseless one" clause?

What I'm saying here is that if it's about venting one's anger, it's not punishment at all, since it has no educational value.

Now, let me propose a scenario.

There was a kid who was caught smoking by the parents once. They made him sit down and told him to smoke the entire pack right there, in front of them, and he can't leave until then. He at first went "Pfsh, no problem!" but after 4-5 in a row, he changed his mind and decided that smoking can fuck him up pretty badly and ruining his health in order to be rebellious and stick it to the man wasn't worth it. Oh, and he didn't actually have to smoke the whole pack after he got to that point.

Now, is this abuse? As punishment, it was pretty damn effective.

I know said kid (well, he's not kid anymore). Was one of the most shocking things that happened to him, but he also admits that he'd likely not have seen the point if the parents tried to just reason with him, or if they just dealt some arbitrary punishment such as grounding.
I do not know if that is abuse, but I would have to guess so since it inflicts physical harm. And if my parents did that to me they would most likely be charged with something since I would have a very very hard time to breath.


But if you are for spanking of children, for to teach them their place, are you also for spanking/smacking a grown person so they know their place/learn how to behave?
 

BrassButtons

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Volf99 said:
When spanking is done as punishment, it is different from a parent hitting a child in the face with a closed fist.
Whipping isn't the same as punching either, but it's still abuse. Spanking being different from punching does not mean it isn't also a form of abuse.