Is Steve Jobs the 2nd Greatest Innovator of All Time?

Atmos Duality

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doggie015 said:
Who falls for gimmicks such as a no-glasses-3D smartphone? Mindless apple bashers
And *only them*, right?
RIGHT?
Because buying Apple automatically provides you with a superior preference and immunity to "gimmicks"...

That is such pretentious nonsense.
Gag me.
 

Waaghpowa

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Apr 13, 2010
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doggie015 said:
Who never stops to think about how things actually work and who actually drives change? Mindless apple bashers
Because understanding how things work is totally irrelevant? One thing I've noticed with people, not just Apple people, is that they have no idea how things work and I swear some of them think it's magic. Is it such a bad thing to understand how something works to avoid being dooped into believing something else? It's the same reason why people think Apple computers is bullshit, some of their computers cost a small fortune for old mid ranged hardware. Then what are you paying for? The name?

What is the entire tablet industry currently trying to catch up to? The iPad 2
Catching up? A tablet from 2003 is still technically better than an Ipad 2. Asus has also surpassed the ipad 2 with the Transformer Prime. http://www.pcworld.com/article/243463/spec_showdown_transformer_prime_vs_ipad_2_vs_kindle_fire_vs_nook_tablet.html
Granted they iPad3 has yet to come out, but knowing usual Apple fashion, it wont be significantly better than the last model.

It's also worth noting that the iPad 2 16gb is 500 dollars vs the Asus Transformer Prime 32gb for 500.
Who is a major supporter of HTML5? Apple

Why do iDevices not have flash? Because it is an outdated technology that uses way too much power and processing time compared to HTML5 which can do the exact same thing and more!
And other devices support both, rather than omitting one.

Why do other mobile phones have flash support? The same reason a 3D smartphone was released: People are trying to pack gimmicky features into their phones so that they stand a chance against apple's genuinely innovative products.
Doesn't flash have over 90% market share? Pretty popular gimmick.

What is the currently most popular mobile gaming device line: The iDevice lineup
Popular, yes. Good, matter of opinion. If I'm going to spend 500 dollars on a device to play games on, namely the iPad, I'd rather buy a DS. My 3DS is an MP3 player, video cam, digital cam and mobile gaming device with games I would prefer play. It also can be used to surf the web, watch Netflix and other functions as well. Granted the cams aren't all that good, but neither is an iPad or iPods cam with their less than 1 megapixel.

Who used to be the king of the mobile gaming market? Nintendo
Arguably they still are. What I've noticed from owning a smart phone after all these years is that mobile games are just damn convenient. I myself have purchased several mobile games out of sheer convenience. Given the number of iDevices out there, it's no wonder a lot of mobile games are being sold.

Where do we constantly see a wide variety of innovative games in the top 10 lists? The Apple app store (Angry birds, Fruit Ninja, Jetpack Joyride, Tiny wings and so on...)
Again, matter of opinion. I for one have never had the attention span to continue playing any mobile game. Some could argue that the app games themselves are gimmicks.
 

Goldeneye1989

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Greatest inventor of all time,
Caveman Ugg who invented Fire
Caveman Thugg who invented leverage
Caveman Mogg Who invented the social environment.
 

Warachia

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Flac00 said:
Warachia said:
Flac00 said:
Really? Whens the last time you bought a CD? The last time you saw a phone without a touch screen. The last time you opened an application on your computer using text based input? This guy changed everything A LOT, you can't suddenly discredit him just because you don't like Apple products.
the last time I bought a CD? I don't know, but I don't have to thank steve jobs for that since he had nothing to do with it. The last time I saw a phone without a touch screen? I don't have any that have touch screens, and steve didn't make those either. The last time I opened an application using a text based input? Probably in the 1990's, and if you want to thank the operating systems you have now, thank xerox for inventing the operating system that steve bought and took all the credit for. I don't even know why you picked those examples.
Because they exist today in popular culture because of Steve Jobs. He may not have invented them, but he made them possible. Xerox was never going to continue their Alto or Star lines, not to mention because they were not very well made. Had it not been for the iMac and Lisa, the whole style of GUI would have either not existed or taken a very long time to fully develop.
Second, of coarse Steve Jobs had EVERYTHING to do with the new wave of digital distribution for music. Nothing on the scale or the effectiveness of iTunes had ever existed before. What came after based its designs off of iTunes and its distribution method. He created iTunes, he created the music distribution methods we see today.
Third: no, he didn't create touch screens. But no POPULAR smart-phone before the iphone had one. They all had button based designs and touch screens seemed slow, inaccurate, and inconvenient. The Palm Pilot had it, but most everything else was button based. With the release of the iPhone and now iPad, the industry is dominated by smart-phones that have touch based interfaces. Thank the iPhone, and specifically Steve Jobs, for that.
Listen to yourself, he didn't invent CD's but he made them possible. WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? If he didn't help create them he gets no points for them.

Ok, I'll concede that Apple modified the GUI to something that was much better and that is genuine innovation, still not nearly enough to get him on this list, as the people who made it originally should be higher.

If you were to argue for digital distribution (which isn't your original argument), you'd still fail, digital distribution for music existed before iTunes, all they did was make it bigger and more popular, which isn't innovation.

Finally, like I said before, popularizing something like touch screens isn't innovation.
 

BehattedWanderer

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Jun 24, 2009
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Guys, I've just got news! Andrew Carnegie--early 20th century industrialist, fat cat, big wig, monopolist, and tycoon--invented Steel! Well done him!

Jobs ran the company. Whoop-di-do for him. "Greatest innovator of all time"? PAH! No Al-Jazari? No Buonorotti or Leonardo? Descartes? Bacon? Akbar the Great? Pascal? Galileo? Newton? Lavousier? Bonaparte? Euclid? Cave Johnson?

Instead, we see names like Amelia Earhart, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, and...Temple Grandin? Wishing no offense to the man, his discoveries are valid, but hardly "greatest of all time" competition. This is nonsense, pure and simple.
 

Li Mu

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STEVE JOBS IS GOD...MUST BUY ALL APPLE PRODUCTS...MUST BY 6 IPHONES BECAUSE APPLE TELL ME TOO...MUST GIVE THEM ALL MY MONEY
 

Atmos Duality

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BehattedWanderer said:
Instead, we see names like Amelia Earhart, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, and...Temple Grandin? Wishing no offense to the man, his discoveries are valid, but hardly "greatest of all time" competition. This is nonsense, pure and simple.
I was wondering if this was an open-response or if it was a list.
But seeing how Amelia Earhart (who was a famous pilot, and not really an "innovator" or inventor) made the list...I don't get it.
 

Bevin Warren

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no Amelia Earhart does deserve to be described as an innovator becauseof the work she did in air navigation and hence the ability to travel longer distances... But then again I wish people would understand the difference between innovation and logical extension/evolution... if its the later it shpouldn't count as innovation.
 

brainslurper

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Waaghpowa said:
Holy fanboy alert in the thread.

Let's look at this seriously guys. Consider all of the supposed innovations Apple have done over the years, consider their products.

Best example, the Tablet.

First released in 2000, nobody wanted it. Then all of a sudden nearly a decade later, Apple comes out with the same idea, inferior hardware specifications and sells an ungodly amount. What changed? Likely answer is, the Apple fanboys changed it. Does anyone remember being bombarded with advertisements for the early pre Apple tabs? I don't. How often can you go without seeing an annoying Apple ad for a piece of their over priced crap? I can't even go to school without seeing one. Suffice to say that the main reason for the success of Apple products isn't Job's brilliance, but his marketing department.

Sony was actually the first company to created an online music store, not Apple. In the usual Sony fashion, they fucked it up by charging too much and exposing it too little to the public, because I had never heard of it. Then Apple does the same thing and advertises it till it's blue in the face.

If you want to call Jobs an innovative genius for making things mainstream, fine. If anything he was good at selling things, while others weren't. Now is that due to incompetence, or genuine disinterest of the product in general? It's quite possible that all these things that Apple sells so well, is actually crap, we're all mesmerized into believing that it's remarkable through clever ads. Congrats people, you are sheep, numbers, easily influenced mind slaves.

Seriously think about it, how often do you see an ad for an Apple product. Now how often do you see an ad for Asus Transformer Prime? I work in electronics retail, and you will not believe how often I get a customer who has no idea that similar products from other manufacturers exist.
Xerox can make a graphical interface, but unless it sells, then they have no reason to continue investment in that market. Apple showed people that graphical interfaces could work on a consumer level.
Same with digital distribution, same with touch phones, same with tablets, same with internet based TV boxes. Apple didn't do this through brute force advertising.
 

Podunk

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Didn't invent anything? Whaaaaat? : o But I read in post-mortem news articles he invented computers, the internet, mp3s, music, and video games!
 

OniaPL

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Podunk said:
Didn't invent anything? Whaaaaat? : o But I read in post-mortem news articles he invented computers, the internet, mp3s, music, and video games!
I know! Stupid ignorant people, just jealous of Jobs for having such a brilliant mind.
 

Zacharious-khan

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joe-h2o said:
classic naysayer behaviour, very quick to bash and crow, but they're very unsporting losers when proved wrong.
I have a rule about spending time retaliating to retardation on the internet so I'll be brief. I know the "No Flash" only applies to mobile devices. Doesn't excuse them from not having it. Jobs was a clever man, he brought together real innovators and had the charisma to lead.
If you want a real innovator, look up Jobs' countersteve The Wizard of Woz.
 

Asehujiko

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A Free Man said:
BlackStar42 said:
OK, that's just depressing. The winner is a thief who stole everything from Tesla and invented the goddamned electric chair as a marketing device. If this is for the greatest innovator of all time, why not Alan Turing or Tim Berners-Lee? I'd say what they did ranks far, far higher than making an overpriced mp3 player.
Because it isn't about the 'greatest innovator of all time' it's about the innovators who made things (or are believed by the majority to have made things) that are extremely popular. Calling an iPod an overpriced mp3 is actually demeaning what I think is one of my most used and most enjoyed devices that I have ever owned ever. That is a pretty huge thing for me and for most others as well. I only have heard of the popular innovators like everyone else. I have never heard of either of the two you offered. People shouldn't expect everyone to know information that isn't general taught at basic education levels.
I'm curious as to where you went to school if they didn't teach you a single thing about technological advances in the last few centuries.
Nikola Tesla invented electricity.
Alan Turing invented computers.
Tim Berners-Lee invented the internet.

They're all pretty big things these days.

Steve Jobs didn't invent anything. Why? Because he was the CEO of the company, not a developer. And your fetish for one of Apple's products to the point where a technical description of it's features is "demeaning" doesn't change a thing about that, it just makes you look uneducated.
 

Frankster

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Facebook inventor the 5th greatest innovator of all time? Steve jobs? Not gonna comment on the others (not least cos i genuinely do respect Amelia Earhart, though wonder how she got onto the list to begin with) but have to genuinely wonder wtf went into the minds of those voting.

At least I can understand for Edison, he is a name you'll hear often so no surprises people think of him when asked about greatest innovators, whethe that is true or not is another thing.
 

Andrew_C

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Asehujiko said:
Nikola Tesla invented electricity.
Alan Turing invented computers.
Tim Berners-Lee invented the internet.

They're all pretty big things these days.
There are so many things wrong with this.
Galvani discovered electricity. Tesla invented a practical way of generating alternating current. Around the same time Gaulard and Gibbs and Ferranti independently invented practical ways of generating of alternating current.

Alan Turing was the first to theorise on the nature of computer programming, and worked on one of the first electronic programmable computers. It was not the first programmable computer nor the first electronic computer. Herman Hollerith's Tabulating Machines were among the first practical (non-programable) mechanical computers, and they were based on Babbage's ideas.

Tim-Berners Lee invented the World Wide Web an application of earlier work. The Internet dates back to when ARPANET adopted TCP/IP as its main protocol and he had no hand in the creation of either.

EDIT: Galvani, not Volta
 

Bluntman1138

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Aug 12, 2011
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No Tesla, No Ben Franklin.....and 3 people that didnt really do anything.
Jobs, did litle to nothing.
Zuckerberg..Really??? Facebook is THAT important of "thing"?????
Arehart??? She didnt do crap really.

Fail list is UTTERLY FAIL!
 

Arizona Kyle

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doggie015 said:
Arizona Kyle said:
Bevin Warren said:
Zynga didn't make the graphical interface popular.
- neither did apple - their is a reason Microsost had a 90% market share
Zynga didn't make digital distribution popular.
-neither did apple -you can probably thank the guys behind Steam for that
Zynga didn't make digital music players popular.
- neither did Apple - heck they still don't have a major share of the market...
Zynga didn't make all-touch phones popular.
- neither did apple
Zynga didn't make tablets popular.
- and Apples first tablets were totally ridiculed and only became popular with a small market share - laptops still sell more then IPads... even Apple recognise this
Zynga made Facebook games popular. And that is all.
and Apple has never sucessfully made a computer game...

if you want innovation in computing look at IBM, Intel, AMD, Nvidia
Zynga didn't make all-touch phones popular.
- neither did apple
--- Well they might of made them popular but Android has vastly increased the popularity of smartphones more than apple

Griffolion said:
doggie015 said:
Bevin Warren said:
Zynga didn't make the graphical interface popular.
- neither did apple - [It was originally made by Zerox but Apple got it to market before anyone else]
Zynga didn't make digital distribution popular.
-neither did apple -you can probably thank the guys behind Steam for that [And the fact that steam are now launching an iPhone app is just a coincidence right?]
Zynga didn't make digital music players popular.
[Incorrect comment removed]
Zynga didn't make all-touch phones popular.
[Incorrect comment removed]
Zynga didn't make tablets popular.
- [Blatantly incorrect comment removed]
Zynga made Facebook games popular. And that is all.
and Apple has never sucessfully made a computer game...

if you want innovation in computing look at IBM, Intel, AMD, Nvidia
I beg to differ. Who took the hard-drive-based music player from fad to fab in 2001?

Who first fit a full desktop-style web browser into a commercially available mobile device?

Who adapted existing capacitive touch-screen technology into the touch-screens we use on EVERY multi-touch capable device today?

Who basically CREATED the modern day cheap app-based games market?

Who is responsible for bringing apple back from the brink of bankruptcy after they rather stupidly tossed him out?

Who consistently sold out keynote speeches?
Apple with Steve Jobs taking credit.
Apple with Steve Jobs taking credit.
Apple with Steve Jobs taking credit.
Apple with Steve Jobs taking credit.
Microsoft for demanding Jobs came back after they bailed them out.
Steve Job's marketing team.

Say what you want, but the one thing you shouldn't really say is the lack of validity of your opposition's arguments. All it serves to do is highlight the unconfidence you have in your own arguments.

- Not sent from my iPad.
Who still doesn't have flash on their phones
Who comes out with the same phone every year
Who only got fame because they were the first smartphone and only was called the "best" because people tried to play catch up to fast
Who gets ripped to shreds when they try to say that apple is better

Apple
Apple
Apple
Apple-tards

So now that he is gone you think they will get flash in the phone..... 10 years after everyone else

-sent from my HTC EVO 3D
Who falls for gimmicks such as a no-glasses-3D smartphone? Mindless apple bashers

Who never stops to think about how things actually work and who actually drives change? Mindless apple bashers

What is the entire tablet industry currently trying to catch up to? The iPad 2

Who made the iPad 2? Apple

Who created the cheap app-based games market of today? (Please actually NAME who ACTUALLY did it instead of who supposedly took credit and just spouting bullshit!)

Who is a major supporter of HTML5? Apple

Why do iDevices not have flash? Because it is an outdated technology that uses way too much power and processing time compared to HTML5 which can do the exact same thing and more!

Why do other mobile phones have flash support? The same reason a 3D smartphone was released: People are trying to pack gimmicky features into their phones so that they stand a chance against apple's genuinely innovative products.

What is the currently most popular mobile gaming device line: The iDevice lineup

Who used to be the king of the mobile gaming market? Nintendo

Where do we constantly see a wide variety of innovative games in the top 10 lists? The Apple app store (Angry birds, Fruit Ninja, Jetpack Joyride, Tiny wings and so on...)
First of all ***** i didn't buy it for the 3D i did however buy it because it outclasses apple by leaps and bounds

What tablet beats the ipad2 http://www.thegeeksclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tablet-comparision-table.jpg check the specs my friend it is very inferior to every tablet on the market

Who has the most used app market? Android and it has been around for less time then apple's app market- your argument is invalid

Haha innovative man wake up apple had one idea and has milked the shit out of it forever they don't innovated they lock you out of an upgrade and force you to buy a new product if you want the latest OS

HTML 5 isn't out and widely used yet is it? No so apple is just trying to keep face because jobs decided to speak out against it, hard to use something when it isn't there or wont be here for another 2 years

Who blamed thousands of people for holding the phone wrong instead of admitting he had made a mistake? Steve Jobs

Who can't see the truth in front of them that apple truly isn't that good?
Apple-tards

Do me a favor and just drop it right there because you wont win this
 

remnant_phoenix

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Raiyan 1.0 said:
First place goes to the patent troll who spent his life sabotaging Tesla's work and trying to convince the public A.C. is dangerous! Second place goes to a marketing man!

Oh, US.
My thoughts exactly.

In terms of contribution to modern technology, Tesla is the most under-appreciated man of all time and Edison is the most over-rated and over-respected man of all time.

And Jobs? He had great business savvy, sure, but what about Dennis Ritchie? He co-invented C and Unix, two essential computer programming languages without which we wouldn't have as they are today personal computers, much less all the trendy Apple stuff that people love!

But no, the popular American mindset is "Thomas Edison invented electrical stuff! Steve Jobs invented the MP3 player! Hail!"

And I AM and American, which makes this even more frustrating. American popular culture makes us all look dumber...