Is System shock 2 still have most complex level design ever?

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

So my friends, being recently replayed system shock 2 and I just cant imagine this type of level design in any other game I have ever seen. not even original Deus Ex which I love even more has level design this deep. and before someone say "hur you blinded by nastolgia, bioshock better" I didnot played System shock 2 in 1999. but first time I played when it was released on GOG. after I played Bioshock infinite which i absolutely Hated.

I never seen any game that deep and complex. It show no mercy to modern gamers.

And how far they have fallen. same guy Ken levine who create most deepest game of all time. to most linear and scripted game.

Theres the reason why im so Hype for Prey and System Shock reboot. Prey may not have this type of level design but im expecting something great from Arkane like Dishonored.

System shock remake and 3 will definitely better than any future game if they follow the path of older games. I personally believe warren spector will did justice to franchise.

So what do you think my friend? is System shock 2 has best level design in history?

Discuss

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

The Clockwork Mansion from Dishonored 2 makes System Shock 2 seem like a beginners course in map design. Aramis Stilton's Mansion is, at the very least, on par with System Shock 2. Not to mention that most other maps for Dishonored 2 are absolute marvels in open ended, multi-path design.

On top of that is the problem that SS2's level design is sprawling and multi-path, but not necessarily good. It is easy to get turned around or get lost, a lot of places serve no real purpose apart from padding out the play area (and maybe giving you a consumable or two) and everything important is just a little too far apart, creating a bunch of pointless backtracking and a lot of time wasted just running back and forth. SS2 was amazing for its' time and it still deserves a bunch of credit for making its' setting feel like a real place, but it hasn't aged well, especially since those late-90's design sensibilities emphasized time wasting and backtracking as something good.

So honestly, Dishonored 2. It is not even a contest. It can't be said enough just how much more impressive the Clockwork Mansion is when compared to anything that SS2 (or pretty much any game for that matter) can muster

 

[DrownedAmmet]

I don't think "complex" is necessarily better than "linear." What matters most is how the player feels. I haven't played System Shock, but is all that complexity necessary?
Compare it to the Deus Ex reboot, which I think was a perfect blend between the two. It was complex, there were always multiple ways to get through a level, but it also felt like a real space. I could totally imagine real people living in those environments, doing everyday things like walking to the breakroom for a cup of coffee, or forgetting their computer password so they have to write it on a sticky note and hide it in their desk. But they were also simple enough that I very rarely got lost, and if I wandered off the beaten path I usually was rewarded with a secret, or I could easily find my way back.

Or even compare it to the Last of Us. That game was linear as pants, but you know what, it didn't feel all that linear. It felt like I was going somewhere. There were no waypoints, no minimap to follow. It was just me trying to make it through the city to my destination. I'll never forget seeing the Capitol building a long ways off in the distance, but then watching it get closer and closer as I made my way through the level, and the feeling I got when I finally fucking made it there

 

[Zhukov]

Nah, not even close.

A lot of shooters back then had messy maze levels. Marathon comes to mind. They were shit. You spent half the game looking for where to go and pressing buttons to open doors on the other side of the level without knowing what door you were opening.

System Shock 2 actually improved on the level design of its day by simplifying the layouts and making them more logical, more like an actual inhabited space might be laid out. Many of the levels in SS2 were designed as a kind of circuit. You'd exit the elevator, then go around clockwise or counter-clockwise (I forget which) re-enter the elevator and proceed to the next level.

Thankfully we've been getting better level designs since those days.

A maze isn't depth or complexity. It's just a waste of my fucking time.

PS. These are maps from Alien: Isolation. There is more to level design than a busy-looking blueprint.

 

[deleted+75193]

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[chrissx2]

Here's doom 2 map

 

[deleted+75193]

DELETED

 

[chrissx2]

Doom maps don't look anything remotely like that.

I have no idea what ya talking about ...

 

[deleted+75193]

DELETED

 

[Glongpre]

Doom maps don't look anything remotely like that.

I think the joke flew right over your head

OP: I think Dark Souls has the best level design. I did not find anything remarkable about SS2's level design.

 

[Bad Jim]

I'll see your System Shock 2, and raise you Exile

A bigger version can be downloaded here:

http://hol.abime.net/2889/gamemap

Of course that's the whole game, but dang it if that map ain't complex. Seriously, download the big version and look at it.

 

[Elijin]

I mean, wouldn't something like GTA5 hold this title?

 

[Hawki]

I mean, wouldn't something like GTA5 hold this title?

Oh Elijin, don't you know that Grand Theft Auto is the worst series ever and overrated? ;p

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

I mean, wouldn't something like GTA5 hold this title?

games like GTA, far cry, witcher 3 are not what i call good open level design because they rely on travelling from point A to point B.

they are boring and mediocre games.

 

[Elijin]

I mean, wouldn't something like GTA5 hold this title?

games like GTA, far cry, witcher 3 are not what i call good open level design because they rely on travelling from point A to point B.

they are boring and mediocre games.

Okay you find it boring and mediocre. But the level in gta5 is a fully realised city down to some staggering scale of detail. No invisible walls, no corridors or collections of chest high cover. A level which is a living city filled with things to discover and appreciate, yet still fully functional for those who just want to get on with it.

You may find what they do with that level uninspired, but it's definitely the most complex level design.

 

[Bombiz]

I mean, wouldn't something like GTA5 hold this title?

games like GTA, far cry, witcher 3 are not what i call good open level design because they rely on travelling from point A to point B.

they are boring and mediocre games.

Don't you also travel from point A to point B in system shock 2?

 

[wings012]

I mean, wouldn't something like GTA5 hold this title?

Doesn't matter when you can just jack a chopper and fly over everything. Though I consider the ability to do so a good thing rather than have to navigate a load of bollocks.

 

[Elijin]

I mean, wouldn't something like GTA5 hold this title?

Doesn't matter when you can just jack a chopper and fly over everything. Though I consider the ability to do so a good thing rather than have to navigate a load of bollocks.

That just adds to it though? Its a huge intricate map with very little in the way of limits. Want to explore the nooks and crannies on foot and find the weird details? Do it. Roll down the streets? Well mapped out. Fly over it all it all because you don't have time for that? Go for it!

Open world has become such a staple of this generation of gaming that people are forgetting why a well made open world map is excellent.