Is the Witcher 2 sexist?

[HHammond]

So I've been vaguely interested in the Witcher 2 a while now as I've heard "it's like a bioware game but better" but I remembered how awfully misogynistic the first game was and murmurs that the second game was pretty bad too. So I watched some videos of the game and wow oh wow that opening scene with Triss was bad. Really bad.

Now, I'm still interested in the rest of the game but I was wondering if it improves later or continues/gets worse? I find most games presentation of woman pretty bad but this just looked awful. Does it get better?

And I should probably just add to keep the conversation civil. I know stuff like this can get out of hand so I hope we can try and attempt to not let it and act like reasonable people.

EDIT: From what I'm reading I think the game is less sexist and just really pander-y. And the reason I found Triss's first scene kinda sexist was that we have a guy who's got some clothes on whereas she is completely naked and this is the first time we've seen the character. They linger on her body for a full 30 seconds and it just kinda says "I'm here to look pretty". But from the sounds of things it gets better so I guess I'll pick up the game.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Depends on your view of misogyny. Sure, there are plenty of naked women to be found and several prostitutes scattered about. Some of the female characters can also be seen as more of bad cariactures of women too.

But on the other hand, there are several good female characters in the game (Triss, Vos and the leader of the rebellion to name those I can think of on top of my head) and some of the male characters are pretty cariacture too.

I, as a woman, did not find Witcher 2 very sexist. It is set in a sexist world, just like Game of Thrones (but unlike GoT, I do not get the vibe that CDProjektRed get a turn on from writing submissive women), but the game itself never felt like it tried to convey the idea that this sexism was a good idea to me. Quite the opposite, considering that at least 2 of the women in the game are very capable and driving to the plot.

SPOILERWhen you uncover a man that has been keeping an elf woman as his sex slave everyone who finds the woman, including Geralt, are apalled by how cruel and monstrous she's been treated. If the game had been misogynistic, this scene would have merited little more than a shrug, but as it is narrated it is quite obvious that we are supposed to think this is a major crime, much worse then public executions and harsh repression of your villagers that the enslaving character has been doing previously.

 

[Saladfork]

Of course it's sexist. It's set in a sexist setting.

That's not necessarily a bad thing; I certainly find it more believeable than the gender-blindness you find in a lot of games.

 

[WolfThomas]

How is that opening scene bad? It's common for lovers to sleep naked together and to remain naked when alone together. She immediately covers herself when the soldier barges in.

Also just because the setting is sexist doesn't mean it's a bad game. Mount & Blade openly admits the game is harder for female characters, as it would be in medieval times.

 

[Zhukov]

To me it came across as blatantly pandering rather than outright misogynistic.

When I came to the scene in the second act where Geralt walks in on Phillipa - the only interesting female character in the game - whipping her naked young lady assistant with a riding crop my eyes damn near rolled out of my head.

I mean, really, guys? I... er, appreciate the imagery and all, but really? And you expect me to take this game as anything other than a joke? Really?

That scene doesn't even serve any narrative purpose either. Geralt was there to talk about something completely unrelated and nobody ever mentions it again. It's just kinda... there.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

No. For gods sakes, no.

The context is sexist. The game is not. And I get rather annoyed when people seem to mistake the two.

 

[The Madman]

I suspect now that Witcher 2 is due for release on the 360 we'll see another spur of these topics, was to be expected I guess. At least it keeps people talking about the game I suppose.

As for an answer to the question, no, not really. The setting itself is blatantly sexist just as it is racist. It's a violent world in the Witcher, not the more kids friendly version of ye ol' medieval times typically seen in media. Full of hate, mistrust and violence. Definitely not kid-friendly stuff!

Game itself however I never felt was sexist, worst it can be a bit pandering as Zhukov mentions. Even then I'd say it's still far better than most. At least the women in Witcher 2 are capable of being more than eye candy which isn't something that can be said, sadly, for many if not most games. Pretty sad state of affairs I might add, but there you go.

 

[CAPTCHA]

To me it came across as blatantly pandering rather than outright misogynistic.

When I came to the scene in the second act where Geralt walks in on Phillipa - the only interesting female character in the game - whipping her naked young lady assistant with a riding crop my eyes damn near rolled out of my head.

I mean, really, guys? I... er, appreciate the imagery and all, but really? And you expect me to take this game as anything other than a joke? Really?

That scene doesn't even serve any narrative purpose either. Geralt was there to talk about something completely unrelated and nobody ever mentions it again. It's just kinda... there.

To be fair they pull the same thing with the male wizard

*shudders

 

[Norrdicus]

That scene doesn't even serve any narrative purpose either. Geralt was there to talk about something completely unrelated and nobody ever mentions it again. It's just kinda... there.

What, jokes that mess with ambiguity and expectations are suddenly bad?

You might as well hate Iorveth's Lord of The Rings joke, the 10 rings of power serve no purpose to the narrative.

 

[Zhukov]

That scene doesn't even serve any narrative purpose either. Geralt was there to talk about something completely unrelated and nobody ever mentions it again. It's just kinda... there.

What, jokes that mess with ambiguity and expectations are suddenly bad?

You might as well hate Iorveth's Lord of The Rings joke, the 10 rings of power serve no purpose to the narrative.

a) It wasn't a joke. Jokes are funny.

b) "Hey look, they're lesbians and she's whipping her bare arse with a crop and she's totally into it, isn't that hot" constitutes "messing with ambiguity and expectations" huh? Now that is a joke.

c) Yes, Iorveth's LotR joke was pretty stupid too, but for different reasons. Also, pathetically unfunny.

 

[Norrdicus]

My copy keeps giving contemplative "Mmmhmmmm" sounds when they're around

a) It wasn't a joke. Jokes are funny.

b) "Hey look, they're lesbians and she's whipping her bare arse with a crop and she's totally into it, isn't that hot" constitutes "messing with ambiguity and expectations" huh? Now that is a joke.

a) Just about the most subjective topic in the world and thus I'm allowed to pull out the "You just didn't get it" card because frankly that comment of yours deserves it

b)

Spoiler

If you arrived at her house earlier, she was moaning also *but* when you open the door, her pupil is simply giving her a backrub. You ask her about it, she seems stone-cold and very serious when she explains that the relationship is not sexual in the slightest. That scene sets up the joke. The whipping scene? That's called a punch-line

 

[endtherapture]

That scene doesn't even serve any narrative purpose either. Geralt was there to talk about something completely unrelated and nobody ever mentions it again. It's just kinda... there.

What, jokes that mess with ambiguity and expectations are suddenly bad?

You might as well hate Iorveth's Lord of The Rings joke, the 10 rings of power serve no purpose to the narrative.

Thev scene is there to show that Philappa and Cynthia

Spoiler

are lovers which makes Cynthia's betrayal more shocking in the later part of the game.

I think. That's what I got from it.

 

[Thoric485]

Just as much as it's racist.

 

[El Luck]

Really? the opening scene is sexist?

How?

 

[DeadYorick]

I find it odd people would consider The Witcher 2 sexist.

I mean Mass Effect, especially it's latter two sequels objectify women all the fucking time. Look at Miranda, look at how she's modeled and look at her sex scene and tell me it doesn't play out like a scene straight out of a porno film.

But yet Mass Effect gets off scott free and when the Witcher 2 decides to put *gasp* a nude model into the game and imply the main character actually had sex, or that it is implied a female character could possibly be raped by an antagonistic character. Suddenly it is sexist?

Bare in mind 95% or so of the Witcher 2 has nothing to do with any of this and it more focuses on the storyline revolving around Geralt hunting the Kingslayer and the RPG gameplay but no. We have to focus on boobies and whether or not the developers care about them.

how awfully misogynistic the first game was

So Grand Theft Auto isn't called misogynistic (or it was above being called a murder simulator and a bunch of other labels) for being able to have casual sex with prostitutes and later murder them in a darkened ally to get your money back. But the original the Witcher allowing you to have sex with a prostitute and have an extremely tame censored scene which only implies sex is happening, is misogynistic.

I mean I'm not even going to go into the relationship Geralt has with Triss/Shany (which I rather liked in that game) I just hate the double standard. A LOT of games objectify women, it is absolutely nothing new. It's just the Witcher is more upfront with it's dark and cynical world it uses it as a device rather then a sales hook. If you do get beyond the opening scene you'll notice most of the female characters in the game are interestingly developed (well Triss aside, I always preferred Shany in the original The Witcher but beggars can't be choosers). The game just doesn't have as much fear with presenting them in their entirety.

The question isn't, "is it sexist?" but "why on Earth would you try to apply real world socio-moral standards to a piece of artistic escapism?"

I can't agree with this any more.

The scene itself lasts for less then a few minutes and hardly even milks it. It's just there, to add to the atmosphere of the scene and it continues along with the story.

To me it came across as blatantly pandering rather than outright misogynistic.

If they were pandering I'd expect the scene to last a lot longer, and for significantly more scenes involving this model.

But the scene itself, the way it's directed seems disinterested with Triss. It focuses more on Geralt and what he's talking about, and you focus more on him dressing himself then you do with Triss's naked body.

I can't stress this enough. Other games objectify women significantly more then the Witcher 2 does. It's nothing new, it's been done many, many times before and no one has cared until now because the Witcher 2 just doesn't care about the need not to show nudity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aai4pbtw660

Linked for emphasis. This is a far more objectifying scene then anything in the Witcher 2.

a) It wasn't a joke. Jokes are funny.

3. a matter that need not be taken very seriously; trifling matter: The loss was no joke.

Source: Dictionary.com

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well if anyone wants to be offended by it then it most certainly gives you enough fuel for that.
Now it just depends on what you look for in a game...