Is there a mod that fixes Morrowind's abysmal conversation system?

[Drathnoxis]

Everybody talks about how great Morrowind's story is and how much depth there is in the politics, but the last time I played the game I just couldn't get into the story because every NPC is a walking encyclopedia who vomits exposition at you with the slightest provocation. I just gave up on talking to NPCs because nearly all of them have 50+ conversation topics and wading through it all to find something I hadn't heard before was too much of a chore. What is even worse is that a lot of the NPCs say the exact same thing or something very similar, but a few will give new and interesting insights into the topic.

So is there a mod that maybe greys out topics where the NPC is going to say something that you have already heard or something nearly identical to something you've already heard? Or anything that makes the system more manageable?

For additional discussion value, tell me what you think about Morrowind's dialogue system.

 

[Fappy]

I love Morrowind's dialogue system. I mean, it is far too fat, yeah, but it really shines if you're playing a character with speechcraft. Opens up a lot of avenues in different questlines if you can negotiate like a boss.

As for mods that improve it? I don't know any, but a good rule of thumb is to avoid talking to NPCs about topics you assume they won't have unique dialogue for. Some notoriously bad dialogue options to avoid are "Rumors" and "Solstheim".

 

[aozgolo]

Actually there is a mod, it doesn't change the core "system" but it does give each NPC individual topics and backstory and even quests.

It's called the "Less Generic NPC Project" and there's multiple mods, one for each "settlement" in the game so you can pick and choose, you can probably find a collection of the mods somewhere online.

The way the game is set up isn't really to provoke you to click every topic, if you ever find someone with the job "Savant" they will have close to 50 topics you can unlock, mostly background stuff about lands, factions, and various fauna in the game. Generally speaking you just have to get used to seeing the same topic over and over and know what it is and whether you need it. It's not a game that hand-holds you at all, typically in conversation you just need to look for topics related to quests you are on or ask the specific questions you wish to know. Topics like "Rumors" are generally location or faction specific, and most topics aren't really relevant to anything important so you don't need to cycle through them all on every character. Don't look at it in the same way as modern games where you are progressing through a typical conversation, each topic is you asking a question about said topic and is a conversation in itself, so if you already know about said subject, no need to repeat it.

Oh and work from the actual dialogue window, don't worry as much about the sidebar topics, that's just a quick reference and that's what makes things the most daunting if you look at it, but if you're just sticking to relevant topics everything you should need to ask about should be in the main window.

 

[DoPo]

I love Morrowind's dialogue system. I mean, it is far too fat, yeah, but it really shines if you're playing a character with speechcraft. Opens up a lot of avenues in different questlines if you can negotiate like a boss.

I'd agree. Sure, I agree it looks a bit like you are talking to encyclopaedias but...I think it makes perfect sense. See, the people know stuff - this is important - I don't much like how in other games when you're talking to random NPCs they pretty much have "Hi" and "Bye" conversation options, as if they have nothing to say. Everybody has stuff to say - everybody knows something. Stop any person on the street IRL and they'd be able to answer some questions for you. I mean questions on the level of the ones in Morrowind, as you are asking basic stuff - where is this thing, do you know about that local event, how do I get somewhere, where do I find stuff. And so on.

Why would the NPCs answer in as much detail, however? Why, if you ask "how do I get to the other settlement" they don't just go "are you stupid or something?" but instead go into detail that you can fetch a boat, or a silt strider and there is a route you can get on foot? The answer is simple - you are an outlander. Everybody knows it, so they try to be helpful.

 

[Rayce Archer]

It's called Vampirism. Fixes conversations right up.

 

[Glongpre]

Really? I love it. A lot of people say the same thing sure, but that just means you don't have to read it unlike voiced games where if people say the same stuff you have to listen to them talk through it (although most thankfully have a skip button, but that can cause issues too if you are too button happy).

I honestly would rather rpgs bring back readable dialogue like this. I can read faster than they speak it. Maybe have some voiceover for important quests that they give or when they have to convey a certain emotion. The voiceovers could be a greeting or something, that way you can hear how they speak and use this as their voice as you read their lines.
Saves them a lot of money too.

Sidenote: I enjoyed reading Planescape Torment. They should have just made that game into a book.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I actually find the dialogue system quite endearing and possibly the only time Bethesda had made good use of a speech skill. Where almost every other aspect of the game has visibly aged, the organic feel of seeking information via keywords and getting varying amounts of detail in return depending on who you ask, your charisma and your how skilled your wordsmithing was, felt very engaging especially for certain builds and roleplays.

I would love Beth to stop worrying about fancy voice acting and go back to a time where much of the dialogue was text, which allowed for an expanded speech system that allows you to explore topics beyond cursory descriptions and the odd exposition dump.

I'd also like the games to return to a time before HUD prompts, as it helps to foster a sense of adventure. You know, that thing that is the biggest selling point of TES games.

To answer your question however, the only mods I could see out there actual complicate the conversation system. I don't think anyone considered toning it down. The vanilla games conversations can get repetitive since many of the generic npcs share generic lines of questioning. Only special characters have unique dialogue. Mods are more focused at diversifying dialogue to make it less generic between different NPCs.

At the very least there is this mod (or set of mods, it's more of a larger project) that seemingly adds more flavor text which might mean less repetition.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-less-generic-npcs-project

Not quite what you asked for, but it might serve to some degree.

 

[VanQ]

Just wait for Skywind to be released. They're a bunch of fans rebuilding the entire game from the ground up including rewriting dialogue so it flows more naturally plus going the extra mile to get voice actors in for all the dialogue.

Search for The Elder Scroĺls Renewal Project on google/YouTube to get an idea of how amazing it looks. I'd link/embed but I'm posting on my phone from work.

 

[VanQ]

Oops. Double post. Sorry about that.

 

[josemlopes]

I liked the way it was, like DoPo said, it does make sense.

The problem seems that you are trying to hear everything that there is to be said, that really isnt the point, you dont go around asking everything to someone and then ask all of it again to someone else.

Just talk about what is relevant to you and seek for the information that you need.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Just wait for Skywind to be released. They're a bunch of fans rebuilding the entire game from the ground up including rewriting dialogue so it flows more naturally plus going the extra mile to get voice actors in for all the dialogue.

Yeeeah, no.


Skywind isn't Morrowind - it's Skywind. You can't 'play Morrowind' that way, as it's frankly it's own, transformative work.

On topic: despite the linked video, I still do appreciate for newcomers to Morrowind some things can make it trickier to get into. When it came out, there was absolutely nothing else like it, so we couldn't play 'compare the open-worlder'. It was simply bigger, better, and deeper than anything else around.

However, as others have pointed out, it has its charm, and I found the barely-there NPC's in Oblivion and Skyrim, frustratingly gamey in their own way (click A to talk: "Hm? Yes?" / "Hello!" / "Did you need something?" / "Hello!" / "Hm? Yes?" etc). I don't think any TES has exactly perfected dialogue/NPC interaction, but I personally prefer more options and more choice in who I ask about what.

What I most remember about Morrowind's dialogue, however, are the key MQ related chitchats with various characters [who I won't name 'cause spoilers, I guess?]. Those stuck with me, and I think the writing for those sequences absolutely trounces anything else that came after in TES (ditto the lore books, especially stuff like 36 Lessons of Vivec). You have to work hard for any reward in Morrowind, and I think that likely goes for the MQ's best, most fascinating meetings. But, as with anything in Vvardenfell - effort is rewarded.

 

[VanQ]

Just wait for Skywind to be released. They're a bunch of fans rebuilding the entire game from the ground up including rewriting dialogue so it flows more naturally plus going the extra mile to get voice actors in for all the dialogue.

Yeeeah, no.


Skywind isn't Morrowind - it's Skywind. You can't 'play Morrowind' that way, as it's frankly it's own, transformative work.

On topic: despite the linked video, I still do appreciate for newcomers to Morrowind some things can make it trickier to get into. When it came out, there was absolutely nothing else like it, so we couldn't play 'compare the open-worlder'. It was simply bigger, better, and deeper than anything else around.

However, as others have pointed out, it has its charm, and I found the barely-there NPC's in Oblivion and Skyrim, frustratingly gamey in their own way (click A to talk: "Hm? Yes?" / "Hello!" / "Did you need something?" / "Hello!" / "Hm? Yes?" etc). I don't think any TES has exactly perfected dialogue/NPC interaction, but I personally prefer more options and more choice in who I ask about what.

What I most remember about Morrowind's dialogue, however, are the key MQ related chitchats with various characters [who I won't name 'cause spoilers, I guess?]. Those stuck with me, and I think the writing for those sequences absolutely trounces anything else that came after in TES (ditto the lore books, especially stuff like 36 Lessons of Vivec). You have to work hard for any reward in Morrowind, and I think that likely goes for the MQ's best, most fascinating meetings. But, as with anything in Vvardenfell - effort is rewarded.

While I agree with and love everything about Morrowind and that video (which I watch sometimes because I like to watch something I agree with so wholeheartedly), it sounds very much like OP can't stand the things about Morrowind that Skywind is changing. His prime complaint was with the dialogue, which Skywind is changing to be more in line with Skyrim and what Skyrim lovers want. And as such, I still recommend Skywind for the OP, even if I personally prefer Morrowind with the Overhaul package of mods.

 

[Signa]

Yeah, OP, I don't think you're going to get much support for this question. Fans of Morrowind actually like the dialogue (myself included), so no one is going to do much to change it. I've used the mentioned Less Generic NPCs mod, and it does improve things a bit. It's a bit overly verbose to me though, so I prefer vanilla.

It might seem ridiculous to ask you to change your expectations, but you might want to go back an play a bunch of RPGs that are older than Morrowind, and pay attention to the dialogue options in them. You don't need to play through them to the end, just experience what was available to the public at the time Morrowind launched. Morrowind was leaps and bounds ahead of most games at the time, and still has appreciable aspects that fans miss in the later version of TES. It's not broken or dated as much as it just different.

 

[Drathnoxis]

It's called the "Less Generic NPC Project" and there's multiple mods, one for each "settlement" in the game so you can pick and choose, you can probably find a collection of the mods somewhere online.

At the very least there is this mod (or set of mods, it's more of a larger project) that seemingly adds more flavor text which might mean less repetition.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-less-generic-npcs-project

Not quite what you asked for, but it might serve to some degree.

Thanks, more unique dialogue will at least be better than everybody reading to me from the same encyclopedia.

Just wait for Skywind to be released. They're a bunch of fans rebuilding the entire game from the ground up including rewriting dialogue so it flows more naturally plus going the extra mile to get voice actors in for all the dialogue.

Thanks, I guess I'll try this out whenever they finish up aswell.

It might seem ridiculous to ask you to change your expectations, but you might want to go back an play a bunch of RPGs that are older than Morrowind, and pay attention to the dialogue options in them. You don't need to play through them to the end, just experience what was available to the public at the time Morrowind launched. Morrowind was leaps and bounds ahead of most games at the time, and still has appreciable aspects that fans miss in the later version of TES. It's not broken or dated as much as it just different.

I'm not sure what games you are specifically referencing, but I would consider the conversation systems in Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate to be vastly superior to Morrowind. The dialogue tree style that those games use feel much more like conversing with an actual human rather than looking something up on Wikipedia. In fact, I would say that I prefer the conversation system (or lack of) in old JRPGs to Morrowind.

It would be appreciated if you would list a couple of example games that Morrowind's dialogue system was leaps and bounds ahead of.

That's not to say I didn't give Morrowind a fair shake. I finished the fighter's guild as well as the main quest and, as of my last save, was on day 78, but for all that time the bland npcs spouting mostly the same responses to the 50+ (not even an exaggeration, I just counted) dialogue options was the biggest barrier to me enjoying the game as much as I could have. All I wanted was an easy way to see if someone has something new to say so I don't have to waste my time scanning through a topic I want to learn more about only to realize that they are just saying the exact same thing as 9/10 of the other NPCs I spoke to.

 

[Signa]

It might seem ridiculous to ask you to change your expectations, but you might want to go back an play a bunch of RPGs that are older than Morrowind, and pay attention to the dialogue options in them. You don't need to play through them to the end, just experience what was available to the public at the time Morrowind launched. Morrowind was leaps and bounds ahead of most games at the time, and still has appreciable aspects that fans miss in the later version of TES. It's not broken or dated as much as it just different.

I'm not sure what games you are specifically referencing, but I would consider the conversation systems in Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate to be vastly superior to Morrowind. The dialogue tree style that those games use feel much more like conversing with an actual human rather than looking something up on Wikipedia. In fact, I would say that I prefer the conversation system (or lack of) in old JRPGs to Morrowind.

It would be appreciated if you would list a couple of example games that Morrowind's dialogue system was leaps and bounds ahead of.

That's not to say I didn't give Morrowind a fair shake. I finished the fighter's guild as well as the main quest and, as of my last save, was on day 78, but for all that time the bland npcs spouting mostly the same responses to the 50+ (not even an exaggeration, I just counted) dialogue options was the biggest barrier to me enjoying the game as much as I could have. All I wanted was an easy way to see if someone has something new to say so I don't have to waste my time scanning through a topic I want to learn more about only to realize that they are just saying the exact same thing as 9/10 of the other NPCs I spoke to.

Torment is a great exception. I was referring to many of the popular JRPGs that were popular before Morrowind (which you say you liked), like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger. Hell, I don't think Baldur's Gate is anything close to what Morrowind offered, because it was barely a tree, even if it gave you a few options to diverge from the rather linear conversation.

I think our brains work differently anyway. The moment I click a dialogue option that was a retread, I recognize it instantly. I don't even need to skim as you describe.