But you seem to think that in a representative democracy (effectively what feminism is because while it lacks elections it does have support indicators) the view of the majority, not those in power, is what the movement stands for. The examples you gave are all where the different factions have sub-divided in name as well as belief, a more related example would be to compare someone like Rommel and the non-believing germans to the rest of the Nazi party. They all fly under the same banner so to not oppose organizations that support GENOCIDE, and to then align yourself with their name is to support them by proxy.Commissar Sae said:While I agree with some of the things you are saying, the generalization you draw is flawed. Labels exist as a way of generalizing ideas or groups. The label of feminism should therefore be ascribed to the actions and beliefs of the majority of those who would call themselves feminist, and not the radical minority of crazy people. Feminism at its roots is about striving for gender equality and a stop to discrimination. Those who would pervert it to an ideology of Female supremacy as no more indicative of the broader movement than the KKK is of Christianity or Neo-Nazis of either right or left wing ideas. The Tea Party does not represent all Republicans, as much as they may claim otherwise and their opponents want to.Single Shot said:snip
Hell, the idea of egalitarianism you are championing has roots in both the French Revolution and Marxism. Both of which have been responsible for death and suffering on a tremendous scale. The idea itself is not made worthless by the way some proponents of it behaved. The concept of equal rights for all is not cheapened by the fact that Stalin and Mao used it as the excuse for butchering thousands, neither is the idea of feminism cheapened by the ideals of a handful (and half a million is a tiny number in a world of over 7 billion) of fringe lunatics who claim to speak for the majority.
Feminism has a much longer history than the recent extremists would have you believe, and I for one am behind the ideals of the like of John Stuart Mill, every human being should have the right to equal treatment by the law and the state. That is all. That has always been the fundamental tenant of feminism. Modern iterations have started to change that message, and many more radical feminists are borderline lunatics, but the same can be said of anyone who holds to their ideology dogmatically without trying to understand the perspectives of others or ignores facts when it goes against their pre-conceived notions.
I have rambled a lot longer than I planned to. Anyway, all that to say that everyone, on all sides of this, should try to relax a little and look at things with a more open mind.
Your idea that egalitarianism = Marxism/Mao levels of atrocity is a frankly stupid attack. It's like claiming Atheism was responsible for Stalin or Hitler.
and as a second point they differ because people did/have rose up to speak against those uses of the teaching.
When I talked about NOW I did so because they have almost frequent access to the president of America and are thus in a position to nudge laws in their favour. How does 310 million people in the western world sound as a number? They aren't a fringe group any more if they have access to world leaders.
Equal rights movements have indeed had a very long history. John Stuart Mill was a fairly early example (He often called himself a 'equalitarian' or '(human) rights campaigner' in much of his work according to 10mins on google. Not sure how accurate that is but it would seem to indicate he was a true equalist) but you can follow it all the way back to Rome with some effort. The genuinely oppressed have always argued for freedom.
Honestly, if you could show me evidence that I've somehow missed of influential and high ranking feminists calling out and attacking these extreme sections while fighting all discrimination (even when it's against men) and spreading true facts instead of threatening and blackmailing to keep perceived anti-feminist data unknown. Then, and only then, I would be only too happy to join them.