John TynesJohn Tynes knows what he wants, and that's more choice. Join The Contrarian as he outlines the design of a new game, a game he wants to play, that falls outside the typical.
Issue 26: Casual Friday - The Contrarian: Sam's Choice
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
- Start date
Original Comment by: Tortanick
Great game but this had nothing to do with retail ;p
Anyway I'd play that if its well implimented, good luck getting it to a developer.
Great game but this had nothing to do with retail ;p
Anyway I'd play that if its well implimented, good luck getting it to a developer.
Original Comment by: Casey Gatti
http://www.elballo.com
A game with some forms of journalistic elements already exists: Beyond Good & Evil. Of course it isn't an absolute realization of your idea, but it does introduce a unique dynamic of using a camera as a means of telling a story. It also has a very interesting "framing" system to help the player understand framing an object.
I'd love a photography game like this. This is what attracted me so much to the Metal Gear Solid series. The idea of using a different aspect of gameplay as a focus; namely, stealth instead of action.
On the flip side, for those Mac people out there, check out this hybrid 3d platform/photography game made over one weekend called "pakimono."
http://conspirat.com/pakimono/
http://www.elballo.com
A game with some forms of journalistic elements already exists: Beyond Good & Evil. Of course it isn't an absolute realization of your idea, but it does introduce a unique dynamic of using a camera as a means of telling a story. It also has a very interesting "framing" system to help the player understand framing an object.
I'd love a photography game like this. This is what attracted me so much to the Metal Gear Solid series. The idea of using a different aspect of gameplay as a focus; namely, stealth instead of action.
On the flip side, for those Mac people out there, check out this hybrid 3d platform/photography game made over one weekend called "pakimono."
http://conspirat.com/pakimono/
Original Comment by: Evil Timmy
http://10mbit.com
This sounds like a lot of fun and a very interesting game to play, especially because you could count your 'win' in a number of different ways, i.e. if you want to play by plain money earned, your relationship score, best single story, or whatever you'd prefer. This, of course, vastly enhances replayability, as the various goals aren't always at odds. It'd work as pure single-player, with rankings, or even co-op/competitive multiplayer (make alliances with other journalists and score a huge story, risking betrayal, or go it alone in the hopes of grabbing all the money for yourself in a big exclusive). Steam, as you mentioned, would be a great platform for the decidedly episodic content.
The only real issue I see is the cost considering the risk factor...such a game would suffer without a top-notch atmosphere, meaning high-quality art, sound, music, and voice acting. The initial outlay would be steep, although further episodes could reuse much of the existing content. Hopefully some brave developer with deep pockets is willing to pull it off...possibly Valve, who are about the only indie developer with the will to make such a gamble and the piggybank to make it succeed. Time will tell if we see such a concept come to fruition, but I'd definitely be willing to put my $15 down for the first episode. And should it happen. may the royalties roll in, further enriching the Tynes estate.
http://10mbit.com
This sounds like a lot of fun and a very interesting game to play, especially because you could count your 'win' in a number of different ways, i.e. if you want to play by plain money earned, your relationship score, best single story, or whatever you'd prefer. This, of course, vastly enhances replayability, as the various goals aren't always at odds. It'd work as pure single-player, with rankings, or even co-op/competitive multiplayer (make alliances with other journalists and score a huge story, risking betrayal, or go it alone in the hopes of grabbing all the money for yourself in a big exclusive). Steam, as you mentioned, would be a great platform for the decidedly episodic content.
The only real issue I see is the cost considering the risk factor...such a game would suffer without a top-notch atmosphere, meaning high-quality art, sound, music, and voice acting. The initial outlay would be steep, although further episodes could reuse much of the existing content. Hopefully some brave developer with deep pockets is willing to pull it off...possibly Valve, who are about the only indie developer with the will to make such a gamble and the piggybank to make it succeed. Time will tell if we see such a concept come to fruition, but I'd definitely be willing to put my $15 down for the first episode. And should it happen. may the royalties roll in, further enriching the Tynes estate.
Not only would I play this game, I can even picture it in my mind. It calls to mind different 'sub-games' in other titles (like the Beyond Good & Evil photography, or even Dark Cloud II), but really makes it a focal point and a very interesting gameplay core. I also really like the idea of making another key concept to a game building, creating, and managing relationships with virtual people. Again, it's something that's often used as a sub-game, but hasn't been a focal point for a modern game for a rather long time.
Most interesting is that it puts the focus on puzzle solving and conversation, rather than killing/collecting - I would compare it to a modern look at the 'Adventure' genre.
Most interesting is that it puts the focus on puzzle solving and conversation, rather than killing/collecting - I would compare it to a modern look at the 'Adventure' genre.
This article actually reminded me a bit of Dark Cloud II, as well. The camera feature, whereby you get "scoops" (similar to the photo ops from John's game idea) and take pictures of various elements to come up with inventions. An interesting idea.
It would be a very different sort of gameplay - diplomacy and timing rather than all-out hack-n-slash.
It would be a very different sort of gameplay - diplomacy and timing rather than all-out hack-n-slash.
Original Comment by: Slartibartfast
Definitely an interesting idea; it's this sort of thinking that we need to expand the current gaming market. I'd pay for it, too, even if it looked dated graphically.
Definitely an interesting idea; it's this sort of thinking that we need to expand the current gaming market. I'd pay for it, too, even if it looked dated graphically.
Original Comment by: chunter
http://www.xanga.com/chunter
Um... Pokemon Snap for adults? Mind, I like that you want to think away from first person shooting, I find the genre repetitive and stupid too.
Tell me more about that MMO version of Rez.
Best wishes
http://www.xanga.com/chunter
Um... Pokemon Snap for adults? Mind, I like that you want to think away from first person shooting, I find the genre repetitive and stupid too.
Tell me more about that MMO version of Rez.
Best wishes
Original Comment by: Mark
As long as the political atmosphere of the whole thing is relatively balanced, I'd play it. I'd buy two copies, even. I can't stand propaganda in my games, however... and good luck finding a developer who doesn't want to dumb down a very complex issue for the sake of boosting sales in a particular demographic.
As long as the political atmosphere of the whole thing is relatively balanced, I'd play it. I'd buy two copies, even. I can't stand propaganda in my games, however... and good luck finding a developer who doesn't want to dumb down a very complex issue for the sake of boosting sales in a particular demographic.
Original Comment by: Funky J
http://www.funkyj.com
What I don't like about this column, and others in the Escapist that suggest game ideas, it's all very well and good to rave about how these ideas would translate into good games, so WHY don't you make it?
The Escapist columnists keep raving about how good indie games are - and this idea in particular would be perfect for an indie game. Just contact some of the indie developers and see what they think...
http://www.funkyj.com
What I don't like about this column, and others in the Escapist that suggest game ideas, it's all very well and good to rave about how these ideas would translate into good games, so WHY don't you make it?
The Escapist columnists keep raving about how good indie games are - and this idea in particular would be perfect for an indie game. Just contact some of the indie developers and see what they think...
Original Comment by: John Tynes
The problem, of course, is that there isn't a single developer in the world who is looking for ideas. Everybody's got ideas. Every designer, every artist, every programmer has some kind of game they would love to make. This is why game developers don't take submissions.
My real goal is to just spur thought and discussion about types of games that don't involve pressing A to shoot a gun. I love gun-shooting games, of course, but I also like some variety in my diet.
The problem, of course, is that there isn't a single developer in the world who is looking for ideas. Everybody's got ideas. Every designer, every artist, every programmer has some kind of game they would love to make. This is why game developers don't take submissions.
My real goal is to just spur thought and discussion about types of games that don't involve pressing A to shoot a gun. I love gun-shooting games, of course, but I also like some variety in my diet.
Original Comment by: mk-1601
It's been done, after a fashion.
http://www.grasshopper.co.jp/works/michigan.html
You can find more variety out there if you look for it, John. A good place to start might be the Nintendo DS, home to stuff like Phoenix Wright, Trauma Center, Animal Crossing, Brain Flex, Nintendogs, etc.
You know, that machine that you dismissed as a gimmick (and which has sold over 13 million units to date). Good luck!
It's been done, after a fashion.
http://www.grasshopper.co.jp/works/michigan.html
You can find more variety out there if you look for it, John. A good place to start might be the Nintendo DS, home to stuff like Phoenix Wright, Trauma Center, Animal Crossing, Brain Flex, Nintendogs, etc.
You know, that machine that you dismissed as a gimmick (and which has sold over 13 million units to date). Good luck!
Original Comment by: Ren
I'm lukewarm about the idea. It's nice, but it sounds like a mishmash of games you've already played and news you just watched without a solid foundation. It's good from a developers standpoint, because KOTOR and Day of Defeat are games which are successful, and they can understand why with market trials and so on. One is Balders Gate set in the Star Wars univese, the other is an FPS abut WWII - games companies like it when people buy what they think we want to buy. Toss in some Beyond Good and Evil and you're set. On the other hand, while setting it in iraq seems like a surefire way to appeal to the average gamer with a war setting and at the same time gives you leeway to be politically edgy, you'll need to work very hard to make the game iconic and not just a mediocre retelling. Requiring that the game have a naturaly progressive narriative and at the same time a great main story is a stupid requirement: every game requires it, and every game spends a lot of time figuring out how to pretend they're doing it. It's like saying a film needs a good script, and then throwing in the bombshell that you also need good actors.
How about writing a proposal for the story, then devising a method to tell it using branching narriative? How about drawing or concieving some iconic images you didn't fish off fox news? I don't think it's as easy as coming up with an idea and going 'no-one will ever produce this, boo-hoo'. Now, I don't want to be overly harsh, but the article doesn't so much bring something new to the table as promise to do so. I'm intrigued, but not convinced. For example, how will you prevent negotiating dialogue becoming nothing more than a cyclic phrases? This is the games foundation, and somehow i'm having visions of those dialogue puzzles from Discworld. How can you provide the player freedom to trade and pick locations for photo's when he always has to travel with a company? Surely that's a pretty fundamenal flaw in the setting. Are you sure you really thought this one through?
Now, personally i'm red-hot on the idea of a Rez MMO. It sounds like a head trip.
I'm lukewarm about the idea. It's nice, but it sounds like a mishmash of games you've already played and news you just watched without a solid foundation. It's good from a developers standpoint, because KOTOR and Day of Defeat are games which are successful, and they can understand why with market trials and so on. One is Balders Gate set in the Star Wars univese, the other is an FPS abut WWII - games companies like it when people buy what they think we want to buy. Toss in some Beyond Good and Evil and you're set. On the other hand, while setting it in iraq seems like a surefire way to appeal to the average gamer with a war setting and at the same time gives you leeway to be politically edgy, you'll need to work very hard to make the game iconic and not just a mediocre retelling. Requiring that the game have a naturaly progressive narriative and at the same time a great main story is a stupid requirement: every game requires it, and every game spends a lot of time figuring out how to pretend they're doing it. It's like saying a film needs a good script, and then throwing in the bombshell that you also need good actors.
How about writing a proposal for the story, then devising a method to tell it using branching narriative? How about drawing or concieving some iconic images you didn't fish off fox news? I don't think it's as easy as coming up with an idea and going 'no-one will ever produce this, boo-hoo'. Now, I don't want to be overly harsh, but the article doesn't so much bring something new to the table as promise to do so. I'm intrigued, but not convinced. For example, how will you prevent negotiating dialogue becoming nothing more than a cyclic phrases? This is the games foundation, and somehow i'm having visions of those dialogue puzzles from Discworld. How can you provide the player freedom to trade and pick locations for photo's when he always has to travel with a company? Surely that's a pretty fundamenal flaw in the setting. Are you sure you really thought this one through?
Now, personally i'm red-hot on the idea of a Rez MMO. It sounds like a head trip.
Original Comment by: Ferrous Buller
http://ferrousbuller.1up.com
Am I the only one who's more than a little troubled by the notion of turning present-day real-world conflicts into backdrops for games? It's bad enough when games invent fictitious near-future conflicts based on current real-world tensions (e.g., North Korea in Mercenaries). But something about making entertainment out of existing conflicts bothers me. Particularly something as mired in controversy as the Iraq war / occupation / insurgency / whatever the hell you like to call it.
This isn't an industry that's exactly reknown for its sensitive handling of controversial topics. The "can you avoid being beheaded by murderous insurgents?!" bit in particular - ugh. There are just so many ways that could be poorly, tastelessly handled. I rather doubt the family and friends of Nick Berg would be too thrilled to see that incorporated into a video game less than two years after his death.
I'm not saying games should eschew topical or controversial subjects. If we want to be taken seriously as a medium, we need to be willing to tackle tough topics. I am saying something like that is fraught with more than game-design hurdles.
Put another way: I'm sure someone could make Sim Auschwitz into a compelling management game; I'm also sure that most reasonable people would agree it would be in pretty effin' poor taste.
http://ferrousbuller.1up.com
Am I the only one who's more than a little troubled by the notion of turning present-day real-world conflicts into backdrops for games? It's bad enough when games invent fictitious near-future conflicts based on current real-world tensions (e.g., North Korea in Mercenaries). But something about making entertainment out of existing conflicts bothers me. Particularly something as mired in controversy as the Iraq war / occupation / insurgency / whatever the hell you like to call it.
This isn't an industry that's exactly reknown for its sensitive handling of controversial topics. The "can you avoid being beheaded by murderous insurgents?!" bit in particular - ugh. There are just so many ways that could be poorly, tastelessly handled. I rather doubt the family and friends of Nick Berg would be too thrilled to see that incorporated into a video game less than two years after his death.
I'm not saying games should eschew topical or controversial subjects. If we want to be taken seriously as a medium, we need to be willing to tackle tough topics. I am saying something like that is fraught with more than game-design hurdles.
Put another way: I'm sure someone could make Sim Auschwitz into a compelling management game; I'm also sure that most reasonable people would agree it would be in pretty effin' poor taste.
Original Comment by: Nutrimentia
http://thefourthageofsand.net
Sounds like fun, if well executed. I'm skeptical on the reliance on dialogue, though, as my experience (limited mostly to Jade Empire and KOTOR, admittedly) is that even when it's considered good, it still isn't good enough for my tastes. In fact, dialogue trees are one area that could really be improved immediately.
Regardless, this game sounds intriguing. Hopefully we see more new molds get cast soon.
http://thefourthageofsand.net
Sounds like fun, if well executed. I'm skeptical on the reliance on dialogue, though, as my experience (limited mostly to Jade Empire and KOTOR, admittedly) is that even when it's considered good, it still isn't good enough for my tastes. In fact, dialogue trees are one area that could really be improved immediately.
Regardless, this game sounds intriguing. Hopefully we see more new molds get cast soon.
Original Comment by: John Tynes
MK-1601, I never dismissed the DS as a gimmick. You're confusing me with some other hater. My prophecy was that the major publishers would not give the DS full support because it's too non-standard. I don't believe I've been proven wrong yet on that score, as the DS's success continues to be built largely on software created by Nintendo -- like the Gamecube and, undoubtedly, the Revolution.
On the other hand, I didn't think the PSP's games would end up blowing so hard. Jeez.
MK-1601, I never dismissed the DS as a gimmick. You're confusing me with some other hater. My prophecy was that the major publishers would not give the DS full support because it's too non-standard. I don't believe I've been proven wrong yet on that score, as the DS's success continues to be built largely on software created by Nintendo -- like the Gamecube and, undoubtedly, the Revolution.
On the other hand, I didn't think the PSP's games would end up blowing so hard. Jeez.
Original Comment by: mk-1601
"My prophecy was that the major publishers would not give the DS full support because it's too non-standard. "
Considering that 8 of the top 10 selling games in Japan were DS games in the last week of 2005, I don't think Nintendo are losing any sleep over this supposed lack of third party support.
"My prophecy was that the major publishers would not give the DS full support because it's too non-standard. "
Considering that 8 of the top 10 selling games in Japan were DS games in the last week of 2005, I don't think Nintendo are losing any sleep over this supposed lack of third party support.