Pat MillerAlthough all games have the potential for problems, opening up a virtual sandbox to the world brings an entirely new level of issues. Pat Miller talks to Linden Lab's Cory Ondrejka on how they handle Second Life.
Issue 31 - Balancing Your Second Life
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
- Start date
Original Comment by: Nick Twining
I'm sitting here wondering why I didn't subscribe to second life after your first article. It's probably the same reason that keeps me in finance instead of going back to school to study game design - instead of my previous bachelors degree in philosophy. Perhaps I am simply daunted by the task of learning to design and feel safer simply going through the motions of creation in a game like WOW or SWG. Yet I still have an itch to implement my own ideas and creations in one of the virtual worlds I inhabit, be that Battlefield 2, WOW, or CivIV. It's that very same itch that makes me want to leave my job and try to learn game design. I suppose what I'm saying is I hope SL will scratch it for me.
At the same time it amazes me that so many gamers believe creation of content should be on the shoulders of the initial designers. I was reading a forum on gamespot regarding Will Wrights spore and a whole bunch of people kept posting that it was lazy and unfair for a greedy corporation to rely on the people who paid them for content. I honestly never believed that anyone could be so ill informed. Its a love of such things that brings about some of the greatest content games have ever had - a love evident in those people who choose to take the time to develop content without ever being paid; artists.
Thanks to all of you out there. Hope to join your ranks one day,
Nick
I'm sitting here wondering why I didn't subscribe to second life after your first article. It's probably the same reason that keeps me in finance instead of going back to school to study game design - instead of my previous bachelors degree in philosophy. Perhaps I am simply daunted by the task of learning to design and feel safer simply going through the motions of creation in a game like WOW or SWG. Yet I still have an itch to implement my own ideas and creations in one of the virtual worlds I inhabit, be that Battlefield 2, WOW, or CivIV. It's that very same itch that makes me want to leave my job and try to learn game design. I suppose what I'm saying is I hope SL will scratch it for me.
At the same time it amazes me that so many gamers believe creation of content should be on the shoulders of the initial designers. I was reading a forum on gamespot regarding Will Wrights spore and a whole bunch of people kept posting that it was lazy and unfair for a greedy corporation to rely on the people who paid them for content. I honestly never believed that anyone could be so ill informed. Its a love of such things that brings about some of the greatest content games have ever had - a love evident in those people who choose to take the time to develop content without ever being paid; artists.
Thanks to all of you out there. Hope to join your ranks one day,
Nick
Original Comment by: Seasought
It really boils down to what you want in a game environment. A majority of players want immersion, experiences (that is to say, things that happen to them) and a sense of importance in the world. Others love the concept of building cities, creating governments and pushing the creation envelope as lesser gods.
The more I read about Second Life the more intrigued I get. Thoughts of creating the next Tower of Babel and creating a religious cult spring to mind. Or perhaps, the notion of an organized crime syndicate, working behind the political curtains to sway individuals of power to fund "the family". It's ideas like this, more mature concepts, that will take those gamers who out-grow other MOG's and wish to develop a deeper, more developed experience. Whether or not this will take off as a standard is hard to say given the limitations of vision, development and the deified dollar.
Nice article.
It really boils down to what you want in a game environment. A majority of players want immersion, experiences (that is to say, things that happen to them) and a sense of importance in the world. Others love the concept of building cities, creating governments and pushing the creation envelope as lesser gods.
The more I read about Second Life the more intrigued I get. Thoughts of creating the next Tower of Babel and creating a religious cult spring to mind. Or perhaps, the notion of an organized crime syndicate, working behind the political curtains to sway individuals of power to fund "the family". It's ideas like this, more mature concepts, that will take those gamers who out-grow other MOG's and wish to develop a deeper, more developed experience. Whether or not this will take off as a standard is hard to say given the limitations of vision, development and the deified dollar.
Nice article.
Original Comment by: Slartibartfast
Nothing against second life, but can we read about something else sometime?
Nothing against second life, but can we read about something else sometime?
Original Comment by: Brian Murphy
Comment from Slartibartfast on Feb 7, 2006 at 4:32 pm
Nothing against second life, but can we read about something else sometime?
Such as? Yes, I?d be interested in reading about the metagame aspects of group creation and cohesion in WoW, but I think that?s probably a bit to esoteric for the pages of ?The Escapist.? And any meaningful discussion would require the sort of ?in the field? anthropology work they probably can?t afford to hire, and even if they did, the resulting master?s thesis would be so full of arcana, it wouldn?t do you or me much good.
But I will agree, I think we?ve just about milked all the good stuff out of the ?Second Life is different? meme. Let?s delve a little deeper, please. What are people doing with this amazing toy? What happens when a group of people that spans the entire globe and a half-dozen languages comes together and tries to create a play space based upon a genre of fiction? Or even a single work? How do these groups interact? How do they deal with conflict? Where are the limits of the system being tested? How much do people cling to the familiar? Why, in a world where the laws of physics are ?more what you?d call guidelines,? do almost all the homes look like fancy versions of what we see in US suburbia? On the opposite extreme, what does it mean to a player?s sense of identity when everything about their avatar, from hair color to gender to even species, is customizable? What does it mean that we can now use virtual SL money to buy real-world goods? How does being skilled at building or coding in the game translate into social capital?
I think the surface is well and truly scratched here. Let?s dig a bit deeper, please. This is a revolution that needs to be recorded, studied, and made known. We know this isn?t WoW or EQ. Now show us why this is important, and what it means for the future of gaming.
- Brian
Comment from Slartibartfast on Feb 7, 2006 at 4:32 pm
Nothing against second life, but can we read about something else sometime?
Such as? Yes, I?d be interested in reading about the metagame aspects of group creation and cohesion in WoW, but I think that?s probably a bit to esoteric for the pages of ?The Escapist.? And any meaningful discussion would require the sort of ?in the field? anthropology work they probably can?t afford to hire, and even if they did, the resulting master?s thesis would be so full of arcana, it wouldn?t do you or me much good.
But I will agree, I think we?ve just about milked all the good stuff out of the ?Second Life is different? meme. Let?s delve a little deeper, please. What are people doing with this amazing toy? What happens when a group of people that spans the entire globe and a half-dozen languages comes together and tries to create a play space based upon a genre of fiction? Or even a single work? How do these groups interact? How do they deal with conflict? Where are the limits of the system being tested? How much do people cling to the familiar? Why, in a world where the laws of physics are ?more what you?d call guidelines,? do almost all the homes look like fancy versions of what we see in US suburbia? On the opposite extreme, what does it mean to a player?s sense of identity when everything about their avatar, from hair color to gender to even species, is customizable? What does it mean that we can now use virtual SL money to buy real-world goods? How does being skilled at building or coding in the game translate into social capital?
I think the surface is well and truly scratched here. Let?s dig a bit deeper, please. This is a revolution that needs to be recorded, studied, and made known. We know this isn?t WoW or EQ. Now show us why this is important, and what it means for the future of gaming.
- Brian
Original Comment by: Paul Jenkins
"...or hearing that infamous ding in World of WarCraft."
Just a nitpick, but, WarCraft has no ding. The "Ding!" relationship existed in Everquest. MMO players around the world still say "ding" when gaining a level, but there's no actual in game ding.
As for the not nitpicky stuff...
I agree with the rest. Let's talk about something else, please. How about Yohoho Puzzle Pirates or the sudden death of EuRose and the subsequent exodus of its players to naRose?
There's a big MMO world out there (no pun intended) and it would be nice to see it discussed.
"...or hearing that infamous ding in World of WarCraft."
Just a nitpick, but, WarCraft has no ding. The "Ding!" relationship existed in Everquest. MMO players around the world still say "ding" when gaining a level, but there's no actual in game ding.
As for the not nitpicky stuff...
I agree with the rest. Let's talk about something else, please. How about Yohoho Puzzle Pirates or the sudden death of EuRose and the subsequent exodus of its players to naRose?
There's a big MMO world out there (no pun intended) and it would be nice to see it discussed.
Original Comment by: Prokofy Neva
http://secondthoughts.typepad.com
IIf LL doesn't see some players as the enemy, why do the permaban some of them from the forums for their critical comments?
http://secondthoughts.typepad.com
IIf LL doesn't see some players as the enemy, why do the permaban some of them from the forums for their critical comments?
Original Comment by: Shirley Marquez
http://shirleymarquez.livejournal.com/
People don't only get banned from the forums for being critical of the Lindens. They can get banned for being critical of ANYBODY, so at least the Lindens aren't singling out social protest against them for special notice. And constructive criticism of Linden policies isn't a problem; there is plenty of it on the forums all the time. It's part of the world culture of Second Life, and of the Terms of Service that you agree to when you sign up. (The TOS apply to the forums as well as to in-world interaction.) Here is the relevant quote:
"Combating intolerance is a cornerstone of Second Life's Community Standards. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as whole."
Second Life is too nice and politically correct for some people's tastes. If it's not your thing, by all means vote with your feet and play a different game. But many of us like the fact that Second Life is a friendly place. Nearly everybody is courteous, quick to compliment you on your behavior or appearance, and good at accepting compliments graciously (since they get so much practice!) And yes, that is something unique; that Second Life has created a courteous culture. I believe that the TOS are a factor, but the culture has also taken on a life of its own and is self-perpetuating. People who aren't nice ("griefers" in game lingo) just don't find a lot of social acceptance, so they either clean up their act, or they leave the game for greener pastures. And people who are violently inclined probably find other MMORPGs a lot more satisfying (in most areas of Second Life, you can't actually hurt people; the worst you can do to them is push them out of the way), so they're not drawn to Second Life to begin with.
http://shirleymarquez.livejournal.com/
People don't only get banned from the forums for being critical of the Lindens. They can get banned for being critical of ANYBODY, so at least the Lindens aren't singling out social protest against them for special notice. And constructive criticism of Linden policies isn't a problem; there is plenty of it on the forums all the time. It's part of the world culture of Second Life, and of the Terms of Service that you agree to when you sign up. (The TOS apply to the forums as well as to in-world interaction.) Here is the relevant quote:
"Combating intolerance is a cornerstone of Second Life's Community Standards. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as whole."
Second Life is too nice and politically correct for some people's tastes. If it's not your thing, by all means vote with your feet and play a different game. But many of us like the fact that Second Life is a friendly place. Nearly everybody is courteous, quick to compliment you on your behavior or appearance, and good at accepting compliments graciously (since they get so much practice!) And yes, that is something unique; that Second Life has created a courteous culture. I believe that the TOS are a factor, but the culture has also taken on a life of its own and is self-perpetuating. People who aren't nice ("griefers" in game lingo) just don't find a lot of social acceptance, so they either clean up their act, or they leave the game for greener pastures. And people who are violently inclined probably find other MMORPGs a lot more satisfying (in most areas of Second Life, you can't actually hurt people; the worst you can do to them is push them out of the way), so they're not drawn to Second Life to begin with.
Original Comment by: Jessica Qin
To y'all crying "ad": the underlying architecture that allows SecondLife to support user content creation makes it wildy different than any other game out there (helpful hint: it's not the shard architecture WoW and everyone else uses, that's for sure). And user content creation is The Future -- you wander around in SL for a day or so and you'll find yourself feeling the way you did when you surfed the WWW back in 1996. Given the choice between writing about SL and Yet Another WoW clone, it's not exactly a surprise that SL gets some attention here.
Although I'll agree with Brian: it might be time to get into some of the finer details of what people are doing in there (although Dave Thomas' _Architecture And Vice_ http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/4/8 was a pretty good overview
To y'all crying "ad": the underlying architecture that allows SecondLife to support user content creation makes it wildy different than any other game out there (helpful hint: it's not the shard architecture WoW and everyone else uses, that's for sure). And user content creation is The Future -- you wander around in SL for a day or so and you'll find yourself feeling the way you did when you surfed the WWW back in 1996. Given the choice between writing about SL and Yet Another WoW clone, it's not exactly a surprise that SL gets some attention here.
Although I'll agree with Brian: it might be time to get into some of the finer details of what people are doing in there (although Dave Thomas' _Architecture And Vice_ http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/4/8 was a pretty good overview