Joe BlancatoMessages can be hidden even in the most unlikely places. Joe Blancato talks with Wideload's Matt Soell, creator of Stubbs the Zombie, on game design, music, stereotypes, and the creation of Stubbs.
Issue 33 - Great Zombie Depression
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
- Start date
Original Comment by: Patrick Dugan
http://www.kingludic.blogspot.com
I haven't played Stubbs but Joe's interview really makes me want to. The idea of a Utopia's fatal flaw is a profound one, and especially important in today's era of theocratic executive government eroding civil liberties while espousing moral values. The idea of the undead, as both scientific and religous anomaly, resonates well with the amoral rebel who finds himself outside the categorical chains of the culture, fighting for survival and the right to believe in nothing.
http://www.kingludic.blogspot.com
I haven't played Stubbs but Joe's interview really makes me want to. The idea of a Utopia's fatal flaw is a profound one, and especially important in today's era of theocratic executive government eroding civil liberties while espousing moral values. The idea of the undead, as both scientific and religous anomaly, resonates well with the amoral rebel who finds himself outside the categorical chains of the culture, fighting for survival and the right to believe in nothing.
Yes, but the inherent collectivism behind the zombie as prosletyzer of the dystopian revolution creates an inherent tension with Stubbs position as rugged individualist. Digging deeper, we see the underlying message as being one of inescapable assimilation into the mass, whether into utopian zombification or zombified dystopic anarchy. Anarcho-syndicalism confronts Utopian Liberalism while individual libertarianism is eschewed. Layered onto this is the fascistic tendencies of Stubb, whose military prowess and dominance of the unliving power heirarchy can best be summarized by the old adage that "it is better to reign in hell than serve in heaven."
Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in The Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus and I'd still have to bum rides off of people.
Original Comment by: Christopher Hunter
http://www.xanga.com/chunter
I find the analysis of culture more enticing than the zombie game, actually...
"Disco is back," for example, is a great analogy, because everybody likes to laugh at characters like 'Disco Stu' that insist that Disco never died. They're right, it survives in other, underground and chastised forms, but all we remember about Disco is bad suits, bad dancing, music that wasn't created in Disco's original spirit, and occasionally, drugs.
The same can be, and was, said about certain kinds of rock, and I put up with similar stereotypes regarding electronic music because of raving.
Let me agree with you that fashion is nothing but stereotyping; for evidence I look no further than the gaudy car I drive, a PT Cruiser.
Best wishes
http://www.xanga.com/chunter
I find the analysis of culture more enticing than the zombie game, actually...
"Disco is back," for example, is a great analogy, because everybody likes to laugh at characters like 'Disco Stu' that insist that Disco never died. They're right, it survives in other, underground and chastised forms, but all we remember about Disco is bad suits, bad dancing, music that wasn't created in Disco's original spirit, and occasionally, drugs.
The same can be, and was, said about certain kinds of rock, and I put up with similar stereotypes regarding electronic music because of raving.
Let me agree with you that fashion is nothing but stereotyping; for evidence I look no further than the gaudy car I drive, a PT Cruiser.
Best wishes
Original Comment by: Mark
Certainly one of the best articles in the magazine that I've read for quite a few issues. Well done.
Certainly one of the best articles in the magazine that I've read for quite a few issues. Well done.
Original Comment by: Patrick Dugan
http://www.kingludic.blogspot.com
You make a good counter-point Alex, I guess you're screwed either way. And of course, a Ferris Bueller quote is key.
The Utopia/dystopian theme is one I'm currently immersed in, as I'm taking a class on it and am designing a dystopic storyworld based off a cutting edge drama engine, (not Storytron, which is also cutting edge in different ways). Check out the game with the same name: http://www.evoluxion.com/utopia/
http://www.kingludic.blogspot.com
You make a good counter-point Alex, I guess you're screwed either way. And of course, a Ferris Bueller quote is key.
The Utopia/dystopian theme is one I'm currently immersed in, as I'm taking a class on it and am designing a dystopic storyworld based off a cutting edge drama engine, (not Storytron, which is also cutting edge in different ways). Check out the game with the same name: http://www.evoluxion.com/utopia/
Original Comment by: Stefan Hall
http://personal.bgsu.edu/~stefanh/hall.htm
The retro movement always had an element of parody built into it - unlike past attempts to recover certain eras times in human history - partly because of its occurrence after postmodernism and, I would argue, partly because how technology had progressed to the point where annihilation is so plausible that recovering an earlier period post-Atomic Age is best left to the writers of The Twilight Zone and other science fiction. Certainly Stubbs the Zombie is joining a host of other titles - including Fallout and its sequels, I Was An Atomic Mutant, Destroy All Humans, and so on - that seek to create a sense of the 1950s through their narrative structure as much as their visual elements (i.e., the graphics in these games are not only about spectacle but also about encoding specific referents in their mise-en-scène). What I find interesting is the rush of these titles around, and now after, the fin de siècle of the 20th century. Much of the 1990s was about looking back and revitalizing components from all the decades in a cultural pastiche that didn't particularly privilege one over the other, so why the interest in the 1950s now? Is this a reflection of more conservative times? As others have pointed out, how rebellious really is the Rebel Without a Pulse? It was an interesting move to situate the zombie (anti)hero in the 1950s given that the image of the zombie largely dropped out of popular culture after White Zombie (1932) as other monsters - vampires, aliens, and atomic terrors - dominated the horror scene until the zombie resurgence with Night of the Living Dead (1968). Is there an equation here with 50s antiheroes and zombies? If anything Stubbs has more in common with Land of the Dead, Romero's latest entry into the genre he reinvigorated, than, say, any of the Evil Dead films - while you may have some campy, zombie fun, the titular hero really just wants to find his lady love and leave society...in this respect, Stubbs is more similar to Frankenstein's creation than Willy Loman.
Overall, I found Blancato's reading of the game to be interesting...perhaps more interesting than the game itself dared to be. At less than 8 hours to go through the entire game, and with a limited amount of replay value, Stubbs the Zombie made me hungry not for brains but for a richer experience within the game world that its creators had invested considerable time in establishing. The best part of the game, for me, was actually the soundtrack, which I bought at the same time as the game, as the mixture of old songs with contemporary bands demonstrated how timeless these nuggets of pop culture really are. Will Stubbs endure as well as his appropriated milieu? Somehow I don't think so, but only time will tell.
http://personal.bgsu.edu/~stefanh/hall.htm
The retro movement always had an element of parody built into it - unlike past attempts to recover certain eras times in human history - partly because of its occurrence after postmodernism and, I would argue, partly because how technology had progressed to the point where annihilation is so plausible that recovering an earlier period post-Atomic Age is best left to the writers of The Twilight Zone and other science fiction. Certainly Stubbs the Zombie is joining a host of other titles - including Fallout and its sequels, I Was An Atomic Mutant, Destroy All Humans, and so on - that seek to create a sense of the 1950s through their narrative structure as much as their visual elements (i.e., the graphics in these games are not only about spectacle but also about encoding specific referents in their mise-en-scène). What I find interesting is the rush of these titles around, and now after, the fin de siècle of the 20th century. Much of the 1990s was about looking back and revitalizing components from all the decades in a cultural pastiche that didn't particularly privilege one over the other, so why the interest in the 1950s now? Is this a reflection of more conservative times? As others have pointed out, how rebellious really is the Rebel Without a Pulse? It was an interesting move to situate the zombie (anti)hero in the 1950s given that the image of the zombie largely dropped out of popular culture after White Zombie (1932) as other monsters - vampires, aliens, and atomic terrors - dominated the horror scene until the zombie resurgence with Night of the Living Dead (1968). Is there an equation here with 50s antiheroes and zombies? If anything Stubbs has more in common with Land of the Dead, Romero's latest entry into the genre he reinvigorated, than, say, any of the Evil Dead films - while you may have some campy, zombie fun, the titular hero really just wants to find his lady love and leave society...in this respect, Stubbs is more similar to Frankenstein's creation than Willy Loman.
Overall, I found Blancato's reading of the game to be interesting...perhaps more interesting than the game itself dared to be. At less than 8 hours to go through the entire game, and with a limited amount of replay value, Stubbs the Zombie made me hungry not for brains but for a richer experience within the game world that its creators had invested considerable time in establishing. The best part of the game, for me, was actually the soundtrack, which I bought at the same time as the game, as the mixture of old songs with contemporary bands demonstrated how timeless these nuggets of pop culture really are. Will Stubbs endure as well as his appropriated milieu? Somehow I don't think so, but only time will tell.
Original Comment by: Dave Allen
Hi, long-time reader, first-time responder...Gee, you guys are reading a lot into this game, and spraining your thesaurus muscles to boot. What seems to be novel about it is that you're an anti-hero, and that's not all that novel. People love the '50's because it's an easy time period to make fun of...spoofing 50's clichés is like shooting fish in a barrel of monkeys!
I'd like to see a computer game where you're the guy that has to clean up after Duke Nukem or the Marine in Doom. In short, a game that's a parody of the current state of games. Or a game where you're a gamer who has to deal with all sorts of other distractions (sig. other, jobs, bathroom breaks, etc.) in order to get more time to sit in front of his console. Now that's subversive.
Nearly every computer game takes place in a "dystopia," right? I mean, do you really want to live in the "World of Warcraft?" or "Empires at War?" etc. etc.
Hi, long-time reader, first-time responder...Gee, you guys are reading a lot into this game, and spraining your thesaurus muscles to boot. What seems to be novel about it is that you're an anti-hero, and that's not all that novel. People love the '50's because it's an easy time period to make fun of...spoofing 50's clichés is like shooting fish in a barrel of monkeys!
I'd like to see a computer game where you're the guy that has to clean up after Duke Nukem or the Marine in Doom. In short, a game that's a parody of the current state of games. Or a game where you're a gamer who has to deal with all sorts of other distractions (sig. other, jobs, bathroom breaks, etc.) in order to get more time to sit in front of his console. Now that's subversive.
Nearly every computer game takes place in a "dystopia," right? I mean, do you really want to live in the "World of Warcraft?" or "Empires at War?" etc. etc.
Original Comment by: ninj
http://hboforerunners.com
Very good article. I am a first time reader, brought here by stubbs. The escapist now sits proudly on my rss list.
I specifically liked the part where you played again at the end. Sure stubbs might be filled with meaning, and political statements and such, but that is just an underlying bonus. Its the sort of thing you read about in a magazine after you have played through, and then have a nice sit and think about.
The conformity vs. more conformity argument never really struck me, but it is a bit amusing. Stubbs is really just changing zombies into zombies. Either way you look at it, it sucks to be the people of punchbowl, at least as far as verious forms of expression are concerned. The bottom line though, is that it is good to be stubbs. At least he finally gets what he wants.
I found it interesting that the band Cake was specifically mentioned, because this article read a whole lot like a John McCrea interview I once read. Soell and McCrea have a similar view of their work in that they hide a whole lot of meaning in an artistic package of some sort. What sets the two apart is their expectations of the audience. McCrea expects his audience to see the (often ambiguous) meanings that he has stuffed into his songs, and enjoy his music for the meaning, as well as the musical quality. Matt seems more than content if his readers love his game for being an excellent game. No meaning is being forced upon anyone in stubbs, and for those that look for it, that makes finding something deeper all the more worthwile.
http://hboforerunners.com
Very good article. I am a first time reader, brought here by stubbs. The escapist now sits proudly on my rss list.
I specifically liked the part where you played again at the end. Sure stubbs might be filled with meaning, and political statements and such, but that is just an underlying bonus. Its the sort of thing you read about in a magazine after you have played through, and then have a nice sit and think about.
The conformity vs. more conformity argument never really struck me, but it is a bit amusing. Stubbs is really just changing zombies into zombies. Either way you look at it, it sucks to be the people of punchbowl, at least as far as verious forms of expression are concerned. The bottom line though, is that it is good to be stubbs. At least he finally gets what he wants.
I found it interesting that the band Cake was specifically mentioned, because this article read a whole lot like a John McCrea interview I once read. Soell and McCrea have a similar view of their work in that they hide a whole lot of meaning in an artistic package of some sort. What sets the two apart is their expectations of the audience. McCrea expects his audience to see the (often ambiguous) meanings that he has stuffed into his songs, and enjoy his music for the meaning, as well as the musical quality. Matt seems more than content if his readers love his game for being an excellent game. No meaning is being forced upon anyone in stubbs, and for those that look for it, that makes finding something deeper all the more worthwile.
Original Comment by: Stefan Hall
http://personal.bgsu.edu/~stefanh/hall.htm
I'm not going to suggest that Dave Allen's comments are reflective of the dumbing down of America...I'm going to explicitly state that they are. With regard to "spraining...thesaurus muscles," the way I think and speak and write is certainly marked by my professional field; however, this is the way I also express ideas to my typical freshmen and they seem to have no trouble either understanding me or adjusting their performance to my expectations. If anything, a lot of them appreciate me expecting more of them as students as they have felt woefully underchallenged by their past education.
More to the point of "reading a lot into this game," does the fact that it is a game invalidate from evaluation? There are countless critical texts written about chess, Go, card games, and so on, and video game criticism, as an emergent field, is going through a growing phase where it is moving towards a greater level of not only critical but also cultural legitimacy. With so many people playing video games, and as video games are becoming the dominant form of entertainment, studying many different aspects of video games seems particularly important now. Would Dave Allen make the same assumption that people who write about films or literature are "reading a lot" into their respective media? Additionally, the bias that Dave Allen expresses echoes a similar strain levelled against people who study comic books.
As for a computer game where you are part of the clean-up crew, evocative of some comic book titles where characters restore damaged cities after superhero vs. villain battles, it would be an interesting form of parody. A useful place to begin further thought about this would be with the Parroty Interactive title Pyst, which takes the gamer through the now thoroughly-trashed-by-too-many-gamers world of Myst.
Finally, does nearly every computer game take place in a dystopia? Dave Allen offers up World of Warcraft and Empire at War as examples, which shows how narrowly the definition of "computer game" is being considered. For every WoW like title I can offer up something like Microsoft's version of Solitaire or a pinball game or online Sudoku. Video games that are set within dystopias is definitely an interesting genre entry into the entire field of video games, but to say that nearly every computer (or even just video) game takes place in a dystopia is plainly erroneous.
http://personal.bgsu.edu/~stefanh/hall.htm
I'm not going to suggest that Dave Allen's comments are reflective of the dumbing down of America...I'm going to explicitly state that they are. With regard to "spraining...thesaurus muscles," the way I think and speak and write is certainly marked by my professional field; however, this is the way I also express ideas to my typical freshmen and they seem to have no trouble either understanding me or adjusting their performance to my expectations. If anything, a lot of them appreciate me expecting more of them as students as they have felt woefully underchallenged by their past education.
More to the point of "reading a lot into this game," does the fact that it is a game invalidate from evaluation? There are countless critical texts written about chess, Go, card games, and so on, and video game criticism, as an emergent field, is going through a growing phase where it is moving towards a greater level of not only critical but also cultural legitimacy. With so many people playing video games, and as video games are becoming the dominant form of entertainment, studying many different aspects of video games seems particularly important now. Would Dave Allen make the same assumption that people who write about films or literature are "reading a lot" into their respective media? Additionally, the bias that Dave Allen expresses echoes a similar strain levelled against people who study comic books.
As for a computer game where you are part of the clean-up crew, evocative of some comic book titles where characters restore damaged cities after superhero vs. villain battles, it would be an interesting form of parody. A useful place to begin further thought about this would be with the Parroty Interactive title Pyst, which takes the gamer through the now thoroughly-trashed-by-too-many-gamers world of Myst.
Finally, does nearly every computer game take place in a dystopia? Dave Allen offers up World of Warcraft and Empire at War as examples, which shows how narrowly the definition of "computer game" is being considered. For every WoW like title I can offer up something like Microsoft's version of Solitaire or a pinball game or online Sudoku. Video games that are set within dystopias is definitely an interesting genre entry into the entire field of video games, but to say that nearly every computer (or even just video) game takes place in a dystopia is plainly erroneous.
Original Comment by: Dave Allen
OK, OK, I cry "Uncle!"...I was merely somewhat amazed that the first 2 comments on this board were massively polysyllabic as opposed to the "L33t Speke" that one finds on most games-related forums. (STBBS PWNS NOOBZ!)
I'm glad (really) that everyone here feels comfortable writing in college-level (at least) English.
As far as my comments about reading meaning into the game, I guess my point was that although you can certainly tack a lot of meaning onto the game, was it there to begin with? Based on my reading of the article, Matt Soell has found a new way to tell the same story of a dirty underdog delivering comeuppance to smarmy, sterile, and hypocritical overlords. He's Banquo's Ghost with exploding bowels! The Ancient Mariner's albatross with a detachable arm! The Count of Monte Cristo with BO! And so on.
But the world-fixing/problem-solving method is just violence, more violence (as they proudly boast, "based on the HALO engine!"). So maybe not all that inventive? If I may quote an earlier commenter:
"Overall, I found Blancato's reading of the game to be interesting...perhaps more interesting than the game itself dared to be. "
Now don't get me wrong, I love violence (in games). Still...
If I thought that games weren't a legitimate cultural expression and therefore just as worthy of examination and exegesis as movies, TV, comic books, yes, even books, I wouldn't read or post on this or any similar site. In fact, games are becoming a more accurate cultural barometer all the time, as they mature as a medium and as their audience expands. It's a good time to be a culture-vulture AND a gamer. I just have my doubts that THIS particular game can bear some of the semiotic weight that's been piled onto it.
And allow me to clarify my comments about the dystopian settings of computer games. First of all, you're absolutely right, Tetris and Poker bear little resemblance to "Brave New World." Although I will say in my defense that I find the sudoku experience pretty nightmarish.
What I meant to say was that in the largely fantasy- and/or sci-fi-themed worlds that many, many A-list computer games with a narrative structure share, the dystopian theme is ubiquitous.
The thing that makes these dystopian worlds different from the dystopian world that we actually live in is that there's almost always a Boss character or a building we can blow up or some Magic McGuffin we can find that will make everything better. Which for many people is the chief attractor.
OK, OK, I cry "Uncle!"...I was merely somewhat amazed that the first 2 comments on this board were massively polysyllabic as opposed to the "L33t Speke" that one finds on most games-related forums. (STBBS PWNS NOOBZ!)
I'm glad (really) that everyone here feels comfortable writing in college-level (at least) English.
As far as my comments about reading meaning into the game, I guess my point was that although you can certainly tack a lot of meaning onto the game, was it there to begin with? Based on my reading of the article, Matt Soell has found a new way to tell the same story of a dirty underdog delivering comeuppance to smarmy, sterile, and hypocritical overlords. He's Banquo's Ghost with exploding bowels! The Ancient Mariner's albatross with a detachable arm! The Count of Monte Cristo with BO! And so on.
But the world-fixing/problem-solving method is just violence, more violence (as they proudly boast, "based on the HALO engine!"). So maybe not all that inventive? If I may quote an earlier commenter:
"Overall, I found Blancato's reading of the game to be interesting...perhaps more interesting than the game itself dared to be. "
Now don't get me wrong, I love violence (in games). Still...
If I thought that games weren't a legitimate cultural expression and therefore just as worthy of examination and exegesis as movies, TV, comic books, yes, even books, I wouldn't read or post on this or any similar site. In fact, games are becoming a more accurate cultural barometer all the time, as they mature as a medium and as their audience expands. It's a good time to be a culture-vulture AND a gamer. I just have my doubts that THIS particular game can bear some of the semiotic weight that's been piled onto it.
And allow me to clarify my comments about the dystopian settings of computer games. First of all, you're absolutely right, Tetris and Poker bear little resemblance to "Brave New World." Although I will say in my defense that I find the sudoku experience pretty nightmarish.
What I meant to say was that in the largely fantasy- and/or sci-fi-themed worlds that many, many A-list computer games with a narrative structure share, the dystopian theme is ubiquitous.
The thing that makes these dystopian worlds different from the dystopian world that we actually live in is that there's almost always a Boss character or a building we can blow up or some Magic McGuffin we can find that will make everything better. Which for many people is the chief attractor.